Antique Repeating 22's - Page 2 - The Firearms Forum

johnlives4christ · 02-01-2011, 08:32 PM

i think thats what i want. a square lever mountie. dangits a fine looking gun

Alpo · 02-02-2011, 05:34 AM

That's what I was thinkin'. I'm not a big Marlin guy, but I thought there was the 39A, which had a rounded lever, a rifle-length barrel and a pistol grip

and there was the 39M, called the Mountie, that had a carbine-length barrel, a square-ended lever and a straight stock.

http://media.photobucket.com/image/m...chester002.jpg

johnlives4christ · 02-02-2011, 01:32 PM

not all mounties have a square lever though, while all have straight stocks. the majority of the ones i've seen online and the one owned by my friend have rounded levers on a straight stock.

so does anyone have first hand experience with using high speed ammo with the model 97? like i said, i dont see why what seems like such a marginal increase in speed/pressure will damage the gun. all of the pressure is contained in the chamber and against the breech face. i dont remember how the bolt locks up in the 39's i've had experience with.

i dont play the "well it's better to play it safe" game. i want actual information on why the 97 wont handle high speed ammo without problems. im sure they build the guns to handle the ammo of the day. since the high speed ammo is so close to standard velocity i would think the gun would be strong enough to handle it without problems because they wouldnt have built the gun just barely able to take the ammo in production at the time.

opinions please

K75RT · 02-02-2011, 03:03 PM

I too appreciate the old repeaters. Here is my Marlin Mountie...

and a fine Stevens Model 25..

johnlives4christ · 02-02-2011, 03:43 PM

good looking old guns

right now im looking at getting either a re release 97 or a mounty with square lever unless i found out a 97 will handle high speed

FloridaFialaFan · 02-03-2011, 11:09 PM

From 1912 Schoverling catalog. A one-year offering from Baker Guns & Forging Co. of Batavia, NY.

Thinking I was bidding on one of those semi-autos, I ended up with a very nice unmarked Febiger pump-only version (below). Even though incorrectly advertised by the auction house, they point out you've signed an agreement to accept whatever they sent you regardless! Luckily it's worth more than I gave for it...

Anyone got a Batavia they'll trade with me?

Best regards ~ ~ ~ FFF

johnlives4christ · 02-05-2011, 10:23 PM

that is a right neat looking gun if you ask me

FloridaFialaFan · 02-05-2011, 10:44 PM

Like a lot of we humans, it was its LOOKS that got it in trouble. Just compare it to the Savage Model 1903 or 1909. Savage Arms took umbrage enough to threaten a patent infringement lawsuit if they continued sales.

Baker advertised it in their 1911 No. 4 catalog, and Schoverling had it in their 1912. That was the end of that....

Best regards ~ ~ ~ FFF

FloridaFialaFan · 02-05-2011, 11:04 PM

I just realized this thread is devoted to REPEATERS, but not just rifles. Handguns are mentioned too.

Well, as most posters at these online gun forums know MY favorite repeater is the FIALA ARMS & EQUIPMENT COMPANY MODEL 1920.

Unique .22rf magazine-fed single-shot which had to be hand-cycled after each shot! (Anyone know of another such critter?)

No known surviving factory records but from surviving serial numbers reported, it's thought there were approximately 8,000 units (various configurations) produced from 1920 to 1935 bearing three different brand names: Fiala; Schall & Co., and Columbian Arms Corporation. Only 6 of the latter have been observed or reported.

Other brands have been mentioned in OLD writings, but none have been observed, advertised or reported in since the 1950s bearing those names.

The cased sets ($35 back then) gave the owner a 3" bbl for concealed carry; a 7.5" bbl for plinking and target, and a 20" bbl w/wooden forestock and detachable black walnut buttstock for use as a carbine. Optional were also smooth-bore in the two longer barrels. Just gun w/7.5 bbl was $10 in the '20s.

Best regards FFF

Big Shrek · 02-08-2011, 07:51 PM

FFF ^^^ finds all the unusual nifty guns that make everyone drool all over themsellves

FloridaFialaFan · 02-08-2011, 08:28 PM

Thanks, Big Shrek. We gotta' get 'em ALL home to Florida.

Want something to drool over? Listen to this...

In the last few days I've obtained: NIB w/warranty Mountain Arms Wildcat 500; H&R Handy-Gun (original, only 323 made) in .22rf, plus another old Fiala to work on. Those are in addition to the Febiger pump!

Went from dried-up, dead market to a flood.

Will be posting those single-shots to appropriate forums.

Best regards ~ ~ ~ FFF

johnlives4christ · 02-08-2011, 10:09 PM

FFF, thanks for the input on this subject. you never hear much about any of the older 22 repeaters. either handguns or rifles.

still seeking info on the use of high speed ammo in old 22's, particular the marlin 97. but i dont really see why any 22 that is was made for smokeless wouldnt handle them.

FloridaFialaFan · 02-08-2011, 11:08 PM

johnlives4christ, READ AND HEED!

Below is another .22rf handgun, a "repeater," four-barreled double action: MOSSBERG BROWNIE. Approximately 34,000 made from 1919 to 1932. Remember, this time-frame covered black powder, Lesmok, and smokeless cartridges. This specimen is like new, in an original Mossberg box, with paper insert, accompanied by a box of vintage ammo possibly used in this pistol.

These little guys were designed for, and made from steel which could accomodate, the moderate pressures of the early propellents. They were NOT really made of anything even close to our modern steels, and ammo which can develop VERY high pressures!

Below is photo of the blown chambers of a Brownie the owner tried some modern ammo in. REMEMBER, it only take ONE round to destroy a valuable historical artifact of Americana, possibly injure yourself AND any nearby innocent observors! It ain't worth it...

There are many other .22s available for use instead. You don't own these old guns. You are merely the current caretaker of an historical artifact, whose job is to preserve it for future generations.

Best regards ~ ~ ~ FFF

Big Shrek · 02-11-2011, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnlives4christ

FFF, thanks for the input on this subject. you never hear much about any of the older 22 repeaters. either handguns or rifles.

still seeking info on the use of high speed ammo in old 22's, particular the marlin 97. but i dont really see why any 22 that is was made for smokeless wouldnt handle them.

It's the pressures involved, it might not seem like much, but too much can cause severe issues.

Stick with Standard Velocity rounds on any .22's that are pre-1960.
Simple rule, keeps you & your antique safe

johnlives4christ · 02-11-2011, 06:54 PM

so can you tell me what year high velocity 22 ammo came out? i've been unable that info.

anyone know of a good book on 22 rf history?

K75RT · 02-12-2011, 10:06 AM

Here is a good read on .22 LR ammo, pressure, and .22 LR terminology as related to High Velocity, Hyper Velocity and Standard Velocity
http://www.saami.org/specifications_...wnload/208.pdf

accident · 02-12-2011, 08:13 PM

Interesting manual K75RT.Some is over my head but good reading nontheless.Thanks for providing it. Joe

johnlives4christ · 02-12-2011, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K75RT

Here is a good read on .22 LR ammo, pressure, and .22 LR terminology as related to High Velocity, Hyper Velocity and Standard Velocity
http://www.saami.org/specifications_...wnload/208.pdf

thanks for that link. the printer will be busy later.

02-01-2011, 08:32 PM	#26
johnlives4christ Former Guest Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,828	Re: Antique Repeating 22's i think thats what i want. a square lever mountie. dangits a fine looking gun

02-02-2011, 05:34 AM	#27
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,649	Re: Antique Repeating 22's That's what I was thinkin'. I'm not a big Marlin guy, but I thought there was the 39A, which had a rounded lever, a rifle-length barrel and a pistol grip and there was the 39M, called the Mountie, that had a carbine-length barrel, a square-ended lever and a straight stock. http://media.photobucket.com/image/m...chester002.jpg __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies. Last edited by Alpo; 02-02-2011 at 05:39 AM..

02-02-2011, 01:32 PM	#28
johnlives4christ Former Guest Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,828	Re: Antique Repeating 22's not all mounties have a square lever though, while all have straight stocks. the majority of the ones i've seen online and the one owned by my friend have rounded levers on a straight stock. so does anyone have first hand experience with using high speed ammo with the model 97? like i said, i dont see why what seems like such a marginal increase in speed/pressure will damage the gun. all of the pressure is contained in the chamber and against the breech face. i dont remember how the bolt locks up in the 39's i've had experience with. i dont play the "well it's better to play it safe" game. i want actual information on why the 97 wont handle high speed ammo without problems. im sure they build the guns to handle the ammo of the day. since the high speed ammo is so close to standard velocity i would think the gun would be strong enough to handle it without problems because they wouldnt have built the gun just barely able to take the ammo in production at the time. opinions please

02-02-2011, 03:03 PM	#29
K75RT V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Litchfield County, CT Posts: 309	Re: Antique Repeating 22's I too appreciate the old repeaters. Here is my Marlin Mountie... and a fine Stevens Model 25.. __________________ Political language. . . is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind.

02-02-2011, 03:43 PM	#30
johnlives4christ Former Guest Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,828	Re: Antique Repeating 22's good looking old guns right now im looking at getting either a re release 97 or a mounty with square lever unless i found out a 97 will handle high speed

02-03-2011, 11:09 PM	#31
FloridaFialaFan Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: World's Most Famous Beach - Daytona Posts: 194	Re: Antique Repeating 22's From 1912 Schoverling catalog. A one-year offering from Baker Guns & Forging Co. of Batavia, NY. Thinking I was bidding on one of those semi-autos, I ended up with a very nice unmarked Febiger pump-only version (below). Even though incorrectly advertised by the auction house, they point out you've signed an agreement to accept whatever they sent you regardless! Luckily it's worth more than I gave for it... Anyone got a Batavia they'll trade with me? Best regards ~ ~ ~ FFF

02-05-2011, 10:23 PM	#32
johnlives4christ Former Guest Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,828	Re: Antique Repeating 22's that is a right neat looking gun if you ask me

02-05-2011, 10:44 PM	#33
FloridaFialaFan Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: World's Most Famous Beach - Daytona Posts: 194	Re: Antique Repeating 22's Like a lot of we humans, it was its LOOKS that got it in trouble. Just compare it to the Savage Model 1903 or 1909. Savage Arms took umbrage enough to threaten a patent infringement lawsuit if they continued sales. Baker advertised it in their 1911 No. 4 catalog, and Schoverling had it in their 1912. That was the end of that.... Best regards ~ ~ ~ FFF

02-05-2011, 11:04 PM	#34
FloridaFialaFan Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: World's Most Famous Beach - Daytona Posts: 194	Re: Antique Repeating 22's I just realized this thread is devoted to REPEATERS, but not just rifles. Handguns are mentioned too. Well, as most posters at these online gun forums know MY favorite repeater is the FIALA ARMS & EQUIPMENT COMPANY MODEL 1920. Unique .22rf magazine-fed single-shot which had to be hand-cycled after each shot! (Anyone know of another such critter?) No known surviving factory records but from surviving serial numbers reported, it's thought there were approximately 8,000 units (various configurations) produced from 1920 to 1935 bearing three different brand names: Fiala; Schall & Co., and Columbian Arms Corporation. Only 6 of the latter have been observed or reported. Other brands have been mentioned in OLD writings, but none have been observed, advertised or reported in since the 1950s bearing those names. The cased sets ($35 back then) gave the owner a 3" bbl for concealed carry; a 7.5" bbl for plinking and target, and a 20" bbl w/wooden forestock and detachable black walnut buttstock for use as a carbine. Optional were also smooth-bore in the two longer barrels. Just gun w/7.5 bbl was $10 in the '20s. Best regards FFF

02-08-2011, 07:51 PM	#35
Big Shrek Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: NorthWest Florida Posts: 923	Re: Antique Repeating 22's FFF ^^^ finds all the unusual nifty guns that make everyone drool all over themsellves __________________ Marlin Specialist Calico Specialist A gun should be a tool in the hands of a deadly weapon, not a deadly weapon in the hands of a tool.

02-08-2011, 08:28 PM	#36
FloridaFialaFan Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: World's Most Famous Beach - Daytona Posts: 194	Re: Antique Repeating 22's Thanks, Big Shrek. We gotta' get 'em ALL home to Florida. Want something to drool over? Listen to this... In the last few days I've obtained: NIB w/warranty Mountain Arms Wildcat 500; H&R Handy-Gun (original, only 323 made) in .22rf, plus another old Fiala to work on. Those are in addition to the Febiger pump! Went from dried-up, dead market to a flood. Will be posting those single-shots to appropriate forums. Best regards ~ ~ ~ FFF

02-08-2011, 10:09 PM	#37
johnlives4christ Former Guest Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,828	Re: Antique Repeating 22's FFF, thanks for the input on this subject. you never hear much about any of the older 22 repeaters. either handguns or rifles. still seeking info on the use of high speed ammo in old 22's, particular the marlin 97. but i dont really see why any 22 that is was made for smokeless wouldnt handle them.

02-08-2011, 11:08 PM	#38
FloridaFialaFan Registered User Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: World's Most Famous Beach - Daytona Posts: 194	Re: Antique Repeating 22's johnlives4christ, READ AND HEED! Below is another .22rf handgun, a "repeater," four-barreled double action: MOSSBERG BROWNIE. Approximately 34,000 made from 1919 to 1932. Remember, this time-frame covered black powder, Lesmok, and smokeless cartridges. This specimen is like new, in an original Mossberg box, with paper insert, accompanied by a box of vintage ammo possibly used in this pistol. These little guys were designed for, and made from steel which could accomodate, the moderate pressures of the early propellents. They were NOT really made of anything even close to our modern steels, and ammo which can develop VERY high pressures! Below is photo of the blown chambers of a Brownie the owner tried some modern ammo in. REMEMBER, it only take ONE round to destroy a valuable historical artifact of Americana, possibly injure yourself AND any nearby innocent observors! It ain't worth it... There are many other .22s available for use instead. You don't own these old guns. You are merely the current caretaker of an historical artifact, whose job is to preserve it for future generations. Best regards ~ ~ ~ FFF

02-11-2011, 06:54 PM	#40
johnlives4christ Former Guest Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Kentucky Posts: 3,828	Re: Antique Repeating 22's so can you tell me what year high velocity 22 ammo came out? i've been unable that info. anyone know of a good book on 22 rf history?

02-12-2011, 10:06 AM	#41
K75RT V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Litchfield County, CT Posts: 309	Re: Antique Repeating 22's Here is a good read on .22 LR ammo, pressure, and .22 LR terminology as related to High Velocity, Hyper Velocity and Standard Velocity http://www.saami.org/specifications_...wnload/208.pdf

02-12-2011, 08:13 PM	#42
accident V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: middle GA Posts: 364	Re: Antique Repeating 22's Interesting manual K75RT.Some is over my head but good reading nontheless.Thanks for providing it. Joe __________________ "The strongest reason for the people to retain the Right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in Government." Thomas Jefferson