Primer substitution question

[skyfire1]

I have a quick question if I may; can I substitute regular small pistol primers for small pistol magnum primers in a middle of the road 9mm or 38 special loads?

There seems to be a good deal on SP mag primers that I was looking at.

Thanks

[woolleyworm]

I wouldn't interchange them, but that's just my .02. I wouldn't do so on the 9mm loads at all, the 38 is one that I have seen personal load data on with mag primers. That being said, It has/can be done, but you MUST start your development process from the Beginning; under no circumstances should you substitute a component and not do a load workup. Don't substitue safety for a few dollars in "savings".

[skyfire1]

I was actually going to start from scratch (starting load) again and work up back to my medium range load. I primarily like to punch paper with LRN or plated 9 and 38 sp. Figured since the price was fantastic for the SP mag primers why not try them. Any reason not to use mag primers in the 9mm?

[woolleyworm]

Originally Posted by skyfire1

I have a quick question if I may; can I substitute regular small pistol primers for small pistol magnum primers in a middle of the road 9mm or 38 special loads?

There seems to be a good deal on SP mag primers that I was looking at.

Thanks

Magnum primers in a small case operating at high pressure with a fast burning powder is not a combo that I would dare flirt with. A good deal becomes a horrible day really quickly when a gun gets blown up. The "savings" can go the other way very very rapidly.

[woolleyworm]

Not to say that it hasn't been done, but without adequate testing equipment, there's no way to reasonably justify it IMO. You'll probably find someone out there that has done it and it "works for them", but who are they really? and how long is it going to work for them? Use caution with taking advice from anyone that is eager to give you this advice.

[woolleyworm]

Take this guys response as an example

"I use magnum primers most of the time, for some reason they are easier to find here. Since I'm not loading anywhere near max loads I have no problems with them. Heck I've even used rifle primers in my 9mm and .40 but again I'm no where near max loads on them. So to answer your question if you loads are not max or close to max you should be OK. "


If that's what ya want to hear and would like to follow his "advice", then by all means, have fun and protect yourself. I personally ask this guy WTFRUT???? He has nothing objective to go on, just the fact that he's messed with physics laws of which he has no concept and that he's gotten lucky enough to survive; thus far.......

[JLA]

Woolley is right-on from a safety stanpoint. That said, I do use magnum primers exclusively, since I load for so many things some requiring magnums, I think it better to keep 4 types in stock instead of 8. I have always started at recommended starting charge with magnum primers and since I load develop with the audette ladder test I have yet to fire more than 4 rounds before finding the accuracy level that suits my shooting needs, then i just pull the rest to recover the powder and load at my determined accuracy load. I find magnum primers coupled with a good crimp creates very consistent velocities in a wide range of cartridges from .223 to .45-70, All the cartridges I have loaded them with take the hotter ignition very well. But it is a risk that you as the reloader must accept as your own and proceed with caution...

[skyfire1]

Originally Posted by woolleyworm

Take this guys response as an example

"I use magnum primers most of the time, for some reason they are easier to find here. Since I'm not loading anywhere near max loads I have no problems with them. Heck I've even used rifle primers in my 9mm and .40 but again I'm no where near max loads on them. So to answer your question if you loads are not max or close to max you should be OK. "


If that's what ya want to hear and would like to follow his "advice", then by all means, have fun and protect yourself. I personally ask this guy WTFRUT???? He has nothing objective to go on, just the fact that he's messed with physics laws of which he has no concept and that he's gotten lucky enough to survive; thus far.......

Woolley, thank you for your honesty and point of view. I don't take anything at face value, but as part of a larger research program. Caution and safety will be foremost on my mind. I would be starting up a new load development cycle until I reach a mid or mild load for the 38sp; the 9 I will hold off until I find more information or mark it off my list. Again thank you all for your input.

[old semperfi]

there are primers out there that say for standard or magnum use so i think if you work up your loads and know the signs of problems then you will be ok.make sure you know what to look for.now having said that you state you use rifle primers for pistol loads,not a good idea.the pistol primers are different.the difference between rifle and pistol is the rate of powder burning.pistols have a faster burn rate than rifle because of the length of barrel.rifle has slower burn rate to acheive max pressure.i think the saying is (never the twain shall meet)i know it may work but why take the chance for a few bucks? old semperfi

[skyfire1]

Originally Posted by old semperfi

there are primers out there that say for standard or magnum use so i think if you work up your loads and know the signs of problems then you will be ok.make sure you know what to look for.now having said that you state you use rifle primers for pistol loads,not a good idea.the pistol primers are different.the difference between rifle and pistol is the rate of powder burning.pistols have a faster burn rate than rifle because of the length of barrel.rifle has slower burn rate to acheive max pressure.i think the saying is (never the twain shall meet)i know it may work but why take the chance for a few bucks? old semperfi

Sorry old semperfi if I gave the impression I used rifle primers in place of pistol primers. I do not do that. I may try a few test cases using starting loads and see how it performs; if I don't like what I see then I'll save the mag primers for larger mag cartridges. SemperFi

[armedandsafe]

Note that rifle primers will sit high in the pistol case cup, rather than the required 2 or 3 thou below the case flat. That means they will be exposed to any and all bumps and jars during firing. This is a dangerous situation.

Pops

[JLA]

yup. high primers can and have caused uncontrolled full auto fire in semi auto guns, especially those with floating firing pins... and if it happens in front of the wrong person, say a batfe rep at your local range, could land you in jail for a good while and your 2nd ammendment rights be stripped from you permanently

[Popgunner]

There is at least one load manual that states you can substitute mag for regular if you return to the start load, reduce powder by 5% & work up carefully again. I think it was Speer. I'll check when I get a chance.

[woolleyworm]

There is always alot of discussion on this matter and after giving it some thought; here's my conclusion on the matter:

You can NOT arbitrarily substitute primers; plain and simple. If it's a matter of cost, convienience, etc; then it's not out of the realm of possibility; but do not bypass common sense and safety. Realize the possible results and work up every load properly. Use every resource and tool at hand; don't assume anything.

[JLA]

in the words of the famous emeril lagasse... BAM!!!

well stated woolley.

[DGG!]

Sky -

Try a couple of mild reloads with the small pistol primer and chrono them.

I recently did the opposite of what you are talking about.

I used a batch of large mag pistol primers when reloading .45 acp. I dropped to minimum published powder load and worked up. I'm using about 3-4 gr less Bullseye than I used with regular large pistol primers and getting the same fps with my chrony. I'm shooting in a modern pistol so I'm confident pressures are not an issue but have no way to test this.

I recommend sticking with the book loads as they have all be tested and only modifying under very careful conditions (like when it was impossible to find regular large pistol primers at any price because of Pres. You-know-who).

[mikld]

Originally Posted by woolleyworm

Not to say that it hasn't been done, but without adequate testing equipment, there's no way to reasonably justify it IMO. You'll probably find someone out there that has done it and it "works for them", but who are they really? and how long is it going to work for them? Use caution with taking advice from anyone that is eager to give you this advice.

Remember woolley, you're one of "them"!
I've read a lot about this (since I don't want to be one of "them" and use my personal experience as an example) in some of my reloading manuals and several different forums as this subject comes up frequently. From what I've read, not experienced of course, reduce powder loads back to starting levels and the substitution of magnum for standard primers is a safe practice.

BTW all primers are not the same, some are "hotter" than others; a small example:
http://www.6mmbr.com/PrimerPix.html so any change in primers should be reason enough to return to starting levels.

[gdmoody]

The only time I use a magnum primer is when I am loading .357 magnum cartridges. I personally would never consider using a Magnum Primer in a .38 or a 9mm.