454 Casull and the 45 Long Colt

[Freebore]

In response to the advancement of modern firearms technology, many 45 Long Colt shooters are now loading there modern 45 LC’s to 44 Mag (and beyond) levels. The line of Ruger Blackhawks are rated as one of the strongest frames on the market, the weak link is the 45 Long Colt case. So……….any thoughts on using (trimmed down) 454 Casull cases in a 45 Long Colt chamber. The Casull cases are much stronger than the standard 45 LC’s. I figure when loading heavy 45 LC loads, using the stronger Casull case would add an additional amount of insurance.
Since the Casull case has more brass (where needed), case capacity would obviously be less than the standard 45, so new loads would have to be worked up.

Any comments ??

[Haligan]

With so many good quality firearms out their, and so many cartridge choices. ...... Why take the chance ?

[Freebore]

Originally Posted by Haligan

With so many good quality firearms out their, and so many cartridge choices. ...... Why take the chance ?

It's not about taking chances, but rather using a better component in the loading process. The firearm involved is the Ruger Blackhawk in 45 LC, which is quite a strong firearm, it's about improving established loads that are currently in use.

[JLA]

current .45 colt cases from any of the major manufacterers are capable of the higher pressures without failure. plus trimmed down .45 casull cases might be a tad thick in the mouth for a bullet. Just a thot...

[muddober]

From my own experience I would not use a Casull case for anything including in a Casull. The Casull case only holds one more grain of 2400 if filled to the top than a Starline 45 Colt case. The Casull case is not any thicker in the side walls, it is all in the base of the case causing a supper long flash hole exacerbated by only excepting a small primer. All of which gives very inconsistent ignition especially with 296/h110. The only way I could get consistent ignition is a triplex load which is a pain and dangerous, which I might add is what made the Casull famous. What Casull did do with his case was to totally eliminate any case bulging because of the thick base there is no part of the case that is unsupported by the cylinder.

I have been hot rodding the 45 Colt for years long before anything was in print about it and I can tell you that with new modern cases you can load to 44 mag pressures with no problems in your Ruger. I have a Smith Model 28 Highway Patrolman that I put a 1955 target barrel on and re-chambered the cylinder to 45 Colt, winding up with a pinned and recessed S&W 45 Colt. That gun has shot several hundred if not thousands of 300 grain bullets with 22 grains of 2400 and still shoots great. I now cast a 340 LBT I drive 1360 out of a five and half inch barreled Grover Improved Number 5. I use 23 grains of VV N110.

Ron

[jacksonco]

What is a 45 Long Colt? I have some 45 Colts but never have seen 45 Long Colts.

[redwing carson]

Many stories on why we call the .45 Colt the Long Colt. I think the fact that the U.S. Army dropped the standard .45 Colt in 1877 in favor of a shorter service round caused the name change. Troopers chose the .45 Scholfield round a Smith & Wesson Ctg. which would fire in the Colt Mdl. P with less recoil. This Ctg. was a capable "Horse Killer'. The Army must have thought it a good idea. The military then introduced the .45 Colt [Short].1877 M2. Later on when the Army ask for a new semi-auto to replace the 6-gun for mounted troops they ask it be chambered in a simmilar Ctg. Thus the .45 Automatic Colt Ctg.[ACP]. This is a very close cousin to the short .45 Schofiled. The British .45 Enfield S&W 1917 revolvers are chambered for a slightly shorter. .45 Colt style round. Any way before the turn of the 20th century you had a choice of .45 longs or shorts for your old "Hog Leg". Today it is used to define the .45 Colt from the .45ACP or .45 AR.

RC

[jim brady]

I'm not too sure I'd "hot Rod" a .45 Colt to anything over .45 Colt specs, even with a strong action such as a Ruger Blackhawk. As it is, the .45 Colt is a great performer. I do use trimmed down 454 Casull cases for cast bullet shooting, and these work very well. I happened onto a very large quantity of once fired .454 brass. Case capacity in the trimmed down cases seems to be less than that of a standard .45 Colt case, so I worked up a seperate load. All of my .45 Colt shooting is with a 7 1/2 inch barrel SAA, and with the thin walls on the cylinder, I go pretty easy on my loads. Case wall thickness of all my .454 brass has been the same as .45 Colt brass.

That's an interesting story on the .45 cartridge's history! I've loaded the .45 Colt to the M-73 specs, and performance was just OK, but not worth the effort required to clean it after firing black powder.

[muddober]

Jim: You are smart not to hot rod your SA 45 Colt. While I have never blown one up I have shook the ejector rod housing off and I have had the cylinder retaining pin move forward on a couple of them. All of which caused me to build the gun I wrote of in my earlier post that would take 40,000 PSI loads and still stay together. I don't know if you are familiar with a Grover Improved Number Five? It is essentially an old flattop Ruger on steroids and it will take loads that I would not even want to list here making even the most hard core Cashull shooter take notice. Why hod rod the 45 Colt? Why is there the 44 mag? Why 357 mag? Why a V8 when an in-line 6 will get you anywhere you want to go and now twin turbocharged V 12 Mercedes that will literally pin you the seat in a 5000 pound sedan. Why? Human nature.

Ron

[jim brady]

Thanks, Muddober, I see your point. That Grover Improved Number Five sounds an impressive pistol - and that would be the sort of platform to experiment with. And, if there's a bottom line to this, we would'nt be where we are unless somebody experimented like this.

[al45lc]

Sorry, But the .44 ain't got 'nutin' on the .45 L.C. in a Blackhawk or Contender when loaded "hot", and frankly, I see no need for the .454 and believe it's wasteful of powder to achieve much the same thing. There are NO dangers in doing so to the .45 L.C. with proper techniques, with benefits of heavier bullets and lighter weapons in the case of the Blackhawk.
I had a BFR once, it was like carrying a pocket howitzer.
I too have been doing this since 1976, with no ill effect to me or my Blackhawks to the tune of thousands of rounds.
Obviously caution is the word of the day, but that applies to ALL handloading.
Well known and established authorities such as Brian Pierce have written many articles on this, with much research and testing to where I believe that he has the credentials to rank with the big boys who publish manuals on reloading.
Again, these apply ONLY to the Blackhawk (or Redhawk) full size or the Contender, NOT to ANY other .45 L.C. out there.

[JLA]

I want me T/C contender with a custom 10 inch bull bbl in .45 colt.