U.S. Rifle, Caliber 7.62mm, M1916 - The Firearms Forum

Jim K · 12-20-2010, 06:26 PM

I recently saw the above terminology used in reference to the M-N rifles issued to the U.S. so-called "Archangel Expedition." It makes sense, but I have never heard or seen that designation before and wonder if anyone knows of any official use of that terminology.

Jim

gdmoody · 12-21-2010, 12:31 AM

Jim, I have never heard of it either. I did a search on Google for your exact nomenclature and came up with this on Wikipedia:

United States
U.S. Rifle, 7.62 mm, Model of 1916 - Due to the desperate shortage of arms and the shortcomings of a still-developing domestic industry, the Russian government ordered 1.5 million M1891 infantry rifles from Remington Arms and another 1.8 million from New England Westinghouse in the United States. Some of these rifles were not delivered before the outbreak of the October Revolution and the subsequent signing of the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk which ended hostilities between the Central Powers and Russia. When the Bolsheviks took over the Russian government, they defaulted on the Imperial Russian contracts with the American arsenals, with the result that New England Westinghouse and Remington were stuck with hundreds of thousands of Mosin Nagants. The US government bought up the remaining stocks, saving Remington and Westinghouse from bankruptcy. The rifles in Great Britain armed the US and British expeditionary forces sent to North Russia in 1918 and 1919. The rifles still in the US ended up being primarily used as training firearms for the US Army. Some were used to equip US National Guard, SATC and ROTC units. Designated "U.S. Rifle, 7.62mm, Model of 1916," these are among the most obscure U.S. service arms. In 1917, 50,000 of these rifles were sent via Vladivostok to equip the Czechoslovak Legions in Siberia to aid in their attempt to secure passage to France.
During the interwar period, the rifles which had been taken over by the US military were sold to private citizens in the United States by the Director of Civilian Marksmanship, the predecessor agency to the current Civilian Marksmanship Program. They were sold for the sum of $7.00 each. If unaltered to chamber the US standard.30-06 Springfield rimless cartridge, these rifles are prized by collectors because they do not have the import marks required by law to be stamped or engraved on military surplus firearms brought into the United States from other countries.

Jim K · 12-21-2010, 10:47 AM

Interesting. Maybe someone else can turn up some official reference. That is an interesting word, "obscure". They can't be called rare, since there were a lot more of them than other US service guns, yet few people think of the M-N as having that nomenclature and of being used by the US for other than training.

Jim

12-20-2010, 06:26 PM	#1
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	U.S. Rifle, Caliber 7.62mm, M1916 I recently saw the above terminology used in reference to the M-N rifles issued to the U.S. so-called "Archangel Expedition." It makes sense, but I have never heard or seen that designation before and wonder if anyone knows of any official use of that terminology. Jim -->

12-21-2010, 12:31 AM	#2
gdmoody Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Northeast Georgia Contributor Posts: 6,334	Re: U.S. Rifle, Caliber 7.62mm, M1916 Jim, I have never heard of it either. I did a search on Google for your exact nomenclature and came up with this on Wikipedia: United States U.S. Rifle, 7.62 mm, Model of 1916 - Due to the desperate shortage of arms and the shortcomings of a still-developing domestic industry, the Russian government ordered 1.5 million M1891 infantry rifles from Remington Arms and another 1.8 million from New England Westinghouse in the United States. Some of these rifles were not delivered before the outbreak of the October Revolution and the subsequent signing of the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk which ended hostilities between the Central Powers and Russia. When the Bolsheviks took over the Russian government, they defaulted on the Imperial Russian contracts with the American arsenals, with the result that New England Westinghouse and Remington were stuck with hundreds of thousands of Mosin Nagants. The US government bought up the remaining stocks, saving Remington and Westinghouse from bankruptcy. The rifles in Great Britain armed the US and British expeditionary forces sent to North Russia in 1918 and 1919. The rifles still in the US ended up being primarily used as training firearms for the US Army. Some were used to equip US National Guard, SATC and ROTC units. Designated "U.S. Rifle, 7.62mm, Model of 1916," these are among the most obscure U.S. service arms. In 1917, 50,000 of these rifles were sent via Vladivostok to equip the Czechoslovak Legions in Siberia to aid in their attempt to secure passage to France. During the interwar period, the rifles which had been taken over by the US military were sold to private citizens in the United States by the Director of Civilian Marksmanship, the predecessor agency to the current Civilian Marksmanship Program. They were sold for the sum of $7.00 each. If unaltered to chamber the US standard.30-06 Springfield rimless cartridge, these rifles are prized by collectors because they do not have the import marks required by law to be stamped or engraved on military surplus firearms brought into the United States from other countries. __________________ NRA Endowment Member GeorgiaCarry.Org Member Retired US Army Postal Worker Personally, I carry a gun because I'm too young to die and too old to take an ass whoopin'.....author unknown (but obviously brilliant)

12-21-2010, 10:47 AM	#3
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: U.S. Rifle, Caliber 7.62mm, M1916 Interesting. Maybe someone else can turn up some official reference. That is an interesting word, "obscure". They can't be called rare, since there were a lot more of them than other US service guns, yet few people think of the M-N as having that nomenclature and of being used by the US for other than training. Jim