Own a Hyundai Santa Fe? Better mind the belt!

[Crpdeth]

Originally Posted by reynolds357

If you get your vehicle serviced at the dealership, they remind you of those kinds of things. If you take it to the 10 minute monkeys, Oh well!

"Oh well" may be the way they think about their customers problems as well... But like I said 100 miles to the dealership is a bit of a drive.

[Slabsides]

I see alot of talk about using factory parts and oil to maintain cars. You do NOT have to use factory parts or oil.


Look up the Magnasun-Moss warranty act.

That is why it is wise to retain receipts for the oil/filter/parts you use. That way, if they blame the failure on non-factory parts, you can let the manufacturer fight it out with the aftermarket parts maker.

For example, I use Valvoline oils and Fram filters. If my engine goes tango uniform and Hyundai tries to claim that I did not use their oil or filters and that is why it failed, then it would be illegal for them to invalidate my warranty (thanks to M-MWA). Additionally, if they refuse to honor the existing warranty, then they would be blaming the failure (in effect) on Valvoline and Fram.....who would be more than willing to defend their product.

Basically, Hyundai would have to go against Valvoline and Fram in a court of law and prove that I used a defective product supplied by Valvoline and/or Fram. If Hyundai were to lose, they would be responsible for replacement under the warranty......if they won, then that would prove in a court of law that Valvoline and/or Fram would have been resposible.......who would then, after a new civil suit and using the findings of the original suit, be resposible for replacing the failure.

It would be alot of work, arguing and BS, but there are protections out there for us...some you just have to fight for.

Fortunately, the above is just an example and I'm on my 5th Hyundai and the only problem I have ever had with any of them is a blown speaker which they promptly replaced and provided me with a loaner car to drive while doing so.

[Crpdeth]

Slabsides

Good post, interesting read... What about gasoline? My best friend drives a Volvo and was told that she must use one of the higher grade fuels. She discontinued doing so when gas got so high because the higher grade fuels were sitting in the ground so long, not being purchased, that it was probably worse than regular unleaded.

[JLA]

Yep. Its best to buy fresh regular and add an octane booster if necessary.

[Crpdeth]

Josh, I guess I was asking because I worried that she voided her warranty... I just started using an octane boost in my ol' Dodge (Lucas) and I sure am proud of the results...

[ponycar17]

This is why I refuse to buy any vehicle with a timing "belt"... This is one of the first things I find out about when I'm interested in a vehicle.

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by ponycar17

This is why I refuse to buy any vehicle with a timing "belt"... This is one of the first things I find out about when I'm interested in a vehicle.

I do the same.

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by Crpdeth

"Oh well" may be the way they think about their customers problems as well... But like I said 100 miles to the dealership is a bit of a drive.

That is why I deal with a good dealership that has top notch customer service. I have bought many many vehicles from them and they take care of me pretty well when I have a problem. A stupid Chipmunk got into my wifes car and ate up the wiring harness. They changed if free. Have any idea how much that is supposed to cost?

[JLA]

Originally Posted by Crpdeth

Josh, I guess I was asking because I worried that she voided her warranty... I just started using an octane boost in my ol' Dodge (Lucas) and I sure am proud of the results...

Shoot donny. if you like the Lucas fuel stabilizer, give seafoam a try. I love that stuff, run it in everything motorized at my house.

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by JLA

Shoot donny. if you like the Lucas fuel stabilizer, give seafoam a try. I love that stuff, run it in everything motorized at my house.

I use it in my small engines. Good stuff.

[JLA]

Is it just me or does it seem like it actually makes the engines idle much quieter?

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by JLA

Is it just me or does it seem like it actually makes the engines idle much quieter?

It definitely makes them idle smoother and maintain more consistent idle rpm.

[JLA]

Because my Jeep has a super 44 FM on it and with untreated fuel it resonates at idle pretty good. But when i got the tank dosed up good with SF it doesnt resonate until i touch the gas. In fact it idles so smooth and quiet I can hear the engine fan over the 5.2L V8 and the FM exhaust.

[Crpdeth]

Originally Posted by JLA

Shoot donny. if you like the Lucas fuel stabilizer, give seafoam a try. I love that stuff, run it in everything motorized at my house.

Definitely will, Josh... My twin swears by that stuff as well.

Thanks!

Originally Posted by JLA

Because my Jeep has a super 44 FM on it and with untreated fuel it resonates at idle pretty good. But when i got the tank dosed up good with SF it doesnt resonate until i touch the gas. In fact it idles so smooth and quiet I can hear the engine fan over the 5.2L V8 and the FM exhaust.

Wow!

[north tex]

My 2007 Sonata 2.4 eng has no schedule for the timing belt changes. The dealer said it is not necessary. I believe he said they changed that year to a chain because of previous belt problems. Have they changed back in recent years?

[68c15]

a warning light would not help. most of my customers do not pay attention to them. modern cars have enough in the cluster already. some look like a Christmas tree during the bulb check. many time a person sees a light and ignores it because it still runs.

I would suggest doing business with a reputable caring independant shop. we let people know when regular maintenance is needed far ahead of time. but when a guy bounces from shop to shop records are impossible to keep track of.

Hondas are in fact intereference engines. then in 2003ish they switched to a chain

[ponycar17]

Originally Posted by 68c15

a warning light would not help. most of my customers do not pay attention to them. modern cars have enough in the cluster already. some look like a Christmas tree during the bulb check. many time a person sees a light and ignores it because it still runs....

Tell me about it! I occasionally design operator interface screens for industrial machines as part of my job. I am continually amazed at the amount of time I put into thoughtful and descriptive messages about a machine's state, and yet it's treated as simply a nuisance. It really makes me appreciate why auto manufacturers have simply put an "idiot light" that looks like an engine on the gauge cluster.

[Crpdeth]

Originally Posted by 68c15

a warning light would not help. most of my customers do not pay attention to them.

As bad as I hate to... I have to agree. Honestly I bought an old rat truck as a backup ride years ago a 95 Nissan - The Check Engine light was on when I bought it and it's still on today.

The only way to make it work would be to add a buzzer with the light... If it's a nuisance people will take it in.

[millwright]

CD :

Perhaps a little engineering info would help ?

Timing "belts" are made from petrochemicals and various cordage, but they're all victims of the "underhood" conditions and usage. Dirt, dust, debris/water have serious impact on the belt. Just as does operator use and vehicle maintenance. In "clearance engines" failure just means a tow and a repair bill. For non-clearanced engines the repair bill" gets a lot steeper as head/valve/pistons conflict. Far better IMO to avoid by inspection and monitoring of engine performance. Which means you have to have some knowledge and skills in doing so......

Usual symptoms of a worn timing belt include difficult starting, rough idling, poor low-speed throttle response. Given your operating conditions the mfg's mandated change intervals may be greater or less than your requirements. (Ain't the "new motor vehicle era" wonderful ? ) Kinda like being back in the Henry Ford 1st era, IOW !

Just keep in mind all - repeat all - OHC engines using belts/chains are more subject to wear/environmental conditions than their pushrod counterparts! A lot has to do with required cam torque requirements and the belt/chain loop configuration. Engineers optimize the disign for an anticipated range of application. Stray outside those parameters and you're on you're own ! >MW

[Slabsides]

Originally Posted by Crpdeth

Slabsides

Good post, interesting read... What about gasoline? My best friend drives a Volvo and was told that she must use one of the higher grade fuels. She discontinued doing so when gas got so high because the higher grade fuels were sitting in the ground so long, not being purchased, that it was probably worse than regular unleaded.

Yes, using lower grade gasoline can void your warranty.....IF (and this is a big IF) they can prove it. The M-MWA does not apply to this because they are not pushing a gasoline manufacturer that they have a stake in, just good grade gas.

Manufacturers can require you to use a higher octane gas because their engine is designed to work with it. Usually engines with turbos require higher octane gas because it has less tendancy to detonate.....detonate a turbo engine under boost = BOOM. Done. Detonation on any engine is like taking a hammer to the tops of the pistons. This evidence will show up on teardown, but is hard to prove.

The manufacurer would have to prove that you knowingly used low grade gasoline when higher octane is required. This is difficult to prove. Even if a sample is taken and tested from the gas tank, you could very well get your gas from a station that misrepresents its octane. Plus, with this incredibly $#!tty ethanol-blended piss that they call gas these days, it breaks down and absorbs moisture which quickly kills it's effectiveness. So if you don't use it and burn it in a short time, it's not exactly what it was when you pumped it.

Short of being photographed pumping 87 when the manufaturer requires 93, I wouldn't sweat it. It's not wise though....you are only risking engine damage which will severely out-cost any savings at the pump.

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by Slabsides

Yes, using lower grade gasoline can void your warranty.....IF (and this is a big IF) they can prove it. The M-MWA does not apply to this because they are not pushing a gasoline manufacturer that they have a stake in, just good grade gas.

Manufacturers can require you to use a higher octane gas because their engine is designed to work with it. Usually engines with turbos require higher octane gas because it has less tendancy to detonate.....detonate a turbo engine under boost = BOOM. Done. Detonation on any engine is like taking a hammer to the tops of the pistons. This evidence will show up on teardown, but is hard to prove.

The manufacurer would have to prove that you knowingly used low grade gasoline when higher octane is required. This is difficult to prove. Even if a sample is taken and tested from the gas tank, you could very well get your gas from a station that misrepresents its octane. Plus, with this incredibly $#!tty ethanol-blended piss that they call gas these days, it breaks down and absorbs moisture which quickly kills it's effectiveness. So if you don't use it and burn it in a short time, it's not exactly what it was when you pumped it.

Short of being photographed pumping 87 when the manufaturer requires 93, I wouldn't sweat it. It's not wise though....you are only risking engine damage which will severely out-cost any savings at the pump.

Here lies the problem. If the mfg. says your warrant is void, its void. You can go to court and fight them, but either way you lost. You going to spend a fortune to try to get them to pay $5000?

[Slabsides]

Originally Posted by reynolds357

Here lies the problem. If the mfg. says your warrant is void, its void. You can go to court and fight them, but either way you lost. You going to spend a fortune to try to get them to pay $5000?

You damn right I would. Plus attorney fees, court costs, lost wages and anything else I CAN whack them with!

Meanwhile, while waiting for the court date, I would park it as close as I could to the dealer with the hood up and a sign hanging off of it explaining how this poor, hard-working consumer is being jerked around.

You try to ram something down my throat, I'm gonna take it, turn it sideways, cover it in sand and ram it right up your.......

Don't take crap off of anyone! Ever.

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by Slabsides

You damn right I would. Plus attorney fees, court costs, lost wages and anything else I CAN whack them with!

Meanwhile, while waiting for the court date, I would park it as close as I could to the dealer with the hood up and a sign hanging off of it explaining how this poor, hard-working consumer is being jerked around.

You try to ram something down my throat, I'm gonna take it, turn it sideways, cover it in sand and ram it right up your.......

Don't take crap off of anyone! Ever.

The problem is you would lose and then you would be out attorney fees, court costs, time lost from work, etc. etc. etc.
What kind of expert witnesses are you going to be able to come up with to refute the engineers from the O.E.M.?
You are aware they would keep appealing until they eventually won.

[Slabsides]

Originally Posted by reynolds357

The problem is you would lose and then you would be out attorney fees, court costs, time lost from work, etc. etc. etc.
What kind of expert witnesses are you going to be able to come up with to refute the engineers from the O.E.M.?
You are aware they would keep appealing until they eventually won.

I would not have to worry about it. I have a valid warranty (read: legal binding contract). It would be me suing them for breech of said contract. The burden of proof would be upon them to provide lawful reason for them to invalidate the contract.

[Crpdeth]

Slabsides

Thanks, very informative... BTW, I like your attitude.