A good analysis of the problem

[RunningOnMT]

This is something I copied from my local tea party's group email. I don't know this person but I think he explains our dilemma pretty well. What we do about it is the question.

mark

From: Troy A. Jones
Sent on: Saturday, January 1, 2011 6:44 PM


If any of you can think in plain common sense terms about the law of commercial transactions – contract law – you will see that the following is a pretty good summary of the situation. The things this author missed was that GOLD and SILVER had substance (value) and not just currency (Form of money). FDR had all the real US value money confiscated and substituted IOU Federal Reserve Notes just like those we use today which are owned by a private FOREIGN bank.

These notes have the FORM of money but no value. Reason is that NOTES (Federal Reserve Notes) are debt obligations. Ever heard of Notes Payable? Do you really have substance or tangible value in your credit card? NOPE. You have a debt that makes you a slave to the lender. Furthermore, anything you buy on credit has a lien that transfers to those goods until they can be settled with real substance. So you own nothing purchased on a credit card, but transferred one form of debt to settle another form of debt. Can you pay and settle debt with debt? No. You simply discharge one form of debt (credit card A) with another debt (Credit Card B).

Well that is what our Federal Reserve notes are….debt notes. We use debt to settle other debt. Each of us that buys a house, car, boat, food, etc are all using debt notes. So when you pay for all these things with debt notes, you do not own it. Rather, the Federal Reserve does as they are the lienholder of the assets substance – and you are a mere privileged user of the asset. The Federal Reserve has allowed you to use their IOU’s (Federal Reserve Notes) to buy things and - IOU’s will have to eventually be paid with value to have a like exchange under common law. That is why the Founders specified weights and measures in Gold and Silver – the money of Sovereigns.

Not convinced? Those of you out there who are fortunate enough to have paid off your house or your car – do you own it or is the debt really just discharged? Yes – discharged. You have satisfied the debt loan obligation, but since it was settled with Federal Reserve notes which are debt – can you again pay for debt with more debt and truly own it? NOPE – the Federal Reserve owns your house, car etc. They offer you a mere title of use. Notice in your house, you have Joint Tenancy or Tenancy in Common. What is a tenant? A User based upon some form of payment for use. Why do you think that they can have you get a permit to add on to your house, replace a water heater, build a porch, etc. if you really owed it. Why do you need a permit to do something to that which you already and TRULY own? (I know the sheeple right now said cause government wants to protect you). Truth is that they are indeed protecting somebody – the owner of the asset and that is the Federal Reserve Bank who is the lienholder of everything in this nation.

One last pleasant thought for you. Since Federal Reserve Notes are debt instruments of a foreign bank and the US Government is a Debtor Nation, who must the government serve – We the People or the Creditor? Again – it is the creditor and the Government is a mere enforcer and broker of the debtor status. This my friends is why you have no Constitutional Rights but mere privileges as the creditor authorizes the enforcer grants to you. Our Courts are now active participants in Commercial – not common law – and when in Commercial law we are in Admiralty/Maritime Jurisdiction. The District Courts are all Bankruptcy Courts acting on behalf of the Creditor enforcing the rules, regulations and privileges granted by the creditor to all debtors(Chattel).

In short, your government does not serve you its’ Common Law Master – but its’ Commercial Law Master the Federal Reserve Foreign Banking Cartel ----and You and I my friends – including all of this nations material wealth - are Chattel for all the debts of this Nation.

I will close with Thomas Jefferson. Tell me how what I said above is not true and was not known in our nation’s founding.

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs. Thomas Jefferson, (Attributed)
3rd president of US (1743 - 1826)

Welcome friends to reality!!!!
Troy

[22shot]

A good post; RunningOnEMT

I am not a big fan of the "teabaggers", I think they came into existance purely to regain the corporate political power lost in 2008; but he brings to light what our currency actually is; long before the present administration.

I agree that the Federal Reserve prints nothing but IOU paper; but I absolutely dissagree with that teabagger when he tries to convince me that I don't "own" a damn thing after I have paid it off.
Scare tatics.
The Federal Government still "owes" the land; that's why we pay taxes; that's nothing new. You get "permits" from your local board to enable them to increase this tax; because you've increased it assesed value. That's been going on for generations.
If he'd remove that stapled teabag from his forehead; he may of rememberd that.

Question is: who "owns" the Federal Government?

In 2008 a political "war" was ignited by the election of Obama. It never would of happned had the corporate candidates; Clinton/McCain; won. As a result, we are fragmented.
Somebody once said "Devide and you shall "Conquer".

So again: who "owns" the Federal Government?

The elections of 2012 will tell.

[ofitg]

Originally Posted by 22shot

A good post; RunningOnEMT

I am not a big fan of the "teabaggers", I think they came into existance purely to regain the corporate political power lost in 2008; but he brings to light what our currency actually is; long before the present administration.

I won't fault the millions of Tea Partiers who attended the rallies and voted for the best candidates they could find. As far as I can see, the Tea Partiers on the "grass roots" level are good people, who are sick & tired of the government's malfeasance.

However, I am suspicious of the "celebrity" politicians who have rushed to stand under the Tea Party banner. I am afraid that these "celebrity" politicians will effectively de-rail the movement.

I hope that the people at the "grass roots" level will observe carefully, stay angry, and be prepared to launch another salvo in 2012.

[carver]

I don't know who Troy A. Jones is, but he hit the nail on the head. We don't own anything in this Nation! If you have paid of your home, just like he said, you paid it off with Federal Notes, and you never owned them either. If you pay your house off with something you don't own, is it paid for?

[ofitg]

I once saw a presentation developed by a patriot group in Oklahoma - they provided documentation that the United States has been operating under Emergency War Powers since the 1930's.... effectively bypassing Constitutional constraints.

Another area they discussed was the ramifications of the government's debt to the Federal Reserve - in essence, we (the U.S. citizens) and everything we possess are the collateral.

[22shot]

[QUOTE=ofitg;701777]I won't fault the millions of Tea Partiers who attended the rallies and voted for the best candidates they could find. As far as I can see, the Tea Partiers on the "grass roots" level are good people, who are sick & tired of the government's malfeasance.



Replace "the government's" with "U.S corporation's" and I will become a die hard member.

Untill such time; I feel they have been sucked into a strictly corporate battle to restore the status quo.

Time will tell.

[ponycar17]

It sounds like someone has read "The Creature from Jekyll Island"... And he's right! When is the US going to be repossessed?

[ofitg]

Originally Posted by 22shot

Replace "the government's" with "U.S corporation's" and I will become a die hard member.

If a corporate entity provides a government official with some service/gratuity, and the government official reciprocates by giving that corporate entity a government contract (or some other favor), you wouldn't consider that to be "government malfeasance"?????

The nominal purpose of business is to make profit, by any means available. Corporate officers do not swear to uphold & defend the Constitution - but government officials do - so who is guilty of the greater sin?

There's no denying that the cozy relationship between big corporations and the government has caused damage to the United States..... but putting the government on a pedestal while blaming the big corporations is myopic.... and perhaps more significantly, voters don't get to choose corporate leaders.

I would also opine that the government's malfeasance has gone far beyond its deference for big corporations - the federal government has grown like a cancer over the past century, implementing socialist policies and entwining our country's destiny with foreign powers, all at the expense of the average citizen's welfare and his fundamental liberties. Big corporations may be along for the ride, but somebody else is at the steering wheel.

[22shot]

To which I respond:

Where do campaign funds come from?

Who funds those glossy adds?

Who "orients" freshman Congressmen?

Who funds re- elections (if you don't play the game; you are out)

Who provides the "perks"?

How many "retired" Congressmen become corporate lobbiest?

Lobbiest run 24/7; the general public once every 2-4 years; IF they take the time to vote.

Congressmen are human; it's easier to pick that low hanging fruit.

Finally: Eliminate that fruit.

You make some valid points; oftig; the above are mine.

[ofitg]

If Congressmen choose to pick that low-hanging fruit, instead of abiding by their oaths to the Constitution, they were the wrong "humans" to vote for.

This week a record number of freshman Congressmen started their new jobs. Do I think that all of them are sincere? Nope. I'm hoping that maybe half of them are. In 2012, we get a chance to replace the others.

What alternative is there? Parade on the street with a sign which reads "Abolish Exxon"?

Or do you envision some other tactic to "eliminate that fruit"?

[22shot]

[QUOTE=
The nominal purpose of business is to make profit, by any means available.
[/QUOTE]

There it is.

[ofitg]

Please explain. You're getting "cryptic" again.

[22shot]

Hey!
You posted that!

[ofitg]

Yes, and I presume you quoted it for some reason. Care to tell us what you have in mind?

If you have a plan, I'd like to hear it. If it sounds like a good plan, count me in.

But don't expect me to play guessing games.

[22shot]

O.K., I won't.

What part of your post "by any means possible" don't you understand; when it comes to corporate influence ?

"by any means possible"

That includes force,threats, bribery, intimidation, patronizing etc. Nothing is exempt.

And that is what must be eliminated from our Congress.

Clear?

[ofitg]

Sure, and thanks for clarifying. How do we eliminate that from our Congress?

Laws are already in place. Perhaps we need better enforcement, or perhaps we need more stringent laws. Either way, it seems to come down to the quality of people we elect to office.

Our government has been digging itself into a hole for more than a century, and it might take that long to dig our way out again. If a significant portion of the voters - ie, the people who call themselves Tea Partiers (and I'm not talking about the "celebrity" politicians) - stay angry long enough, we might see the situation start to turn around in our lifetimes.

[Old Grump]

Originally Posted by 22shot

A good post; RunningOnEMT

I am not a big fan of the "teabaggers", I think they came into existance purely to regain the corporate political power lost in 2008; but he brings to light what our currency actually is; long before the present administration.

If you don't like the Tea Baggers how about Libertarians?

End the Fed

Since it was created in the dark of night in 1913, the monetary policies of the U.S. Federal Reserve — a PRIVATE banking cartel, to which Congress unconstitutionally transferred its power to “coin money” and regulate its value — have led to a decline of OVER 95% in the purchasing power of the U.S. dollar.

The dollar in your wallet or purse now buys only FIVE CENTS worth of stuff, compared to what it could buy BEFORE the Fed came along.

The Fed has inflated our currency with NOTHING to back it up that the value has dropped dramatically.

Because of the economic destructiveness of these Fed policies, there have been several attempts to curtail or eliminate the Federal Reserve’s powers, including the efforts of Rep. Louis T. McFadden in the 1930s; the efforts of Rep. Wright Patman in the 1970s; the efforts of Rep. Henry Gonzalez in the 1990s; and the efforts of Rep. Ron Paul since the 1990s. However, none have proven successful to date, due mainly to the constraints of strong political opposition at the national level.

So like the signs say. Its the Constitution Stupid. Bring America back in line with the U.S. Constitution, and SAVE our crashing economy?

[22shot]

I'm jumping on this post (A good analisis of the problem) with both feet in rebutal to Troy A. Jones and his teaparty Email.
It's not to say the teaparty is bogus; but where is their funding coming from? Did their leaders just pop up from the general populace and decide to start this thing?

In the 2010 mid-term elections; I voted against ALL of the incumbents; apparently
so did a lot of other folks. I can't speak for the others; but the "tea party" did not influence my vote. Yep; I'm angry; don't need no "party" to speak for me.

We can write our Congressmen; maybe to no effect; but it lets them know we are out there.
For the same reason, I also write the White House.

Sure; the media is giving a lot of coverage to this "Tea Party" movement; but I think
if there are enough emails from the general populace ( the media refers to us as Joe Sixpack)
directed to their representatives; somebody will take notice.
Democracy is not a spectator sport; If you don't participate; it dies.

Corporations cannot vote in our elections; but they can and do influence Joe Sixpack to vote for their candidate or incumbent. (The money spent on the 2010 mid-terms set a record high; and it didn't come from Joe Sixpack; he couldn't afford it).

It's tough to vote for the right person. All year long the media covers stuff like American Idol constestants; starletts pot busts; celebrites screw ups and births; etc. etc.
It's not any wonder that our brains are pudding by the time the elections roll around.

Our Government does not belong to any Corporation; power; or political party. It belongs to Joe Sixpack; and it's high time he figured that out!

[ofitg]

Maybe I'm missing something here. I've read Troy Jones's message twice, and I haven't seen any reference to the Tea Party movement. Jones's message is a condemnation of the Federal Reserve. You're rebutting that "with both feet"?

Or perhaps you're objecting to the fact that RunningOnMT and other angry voters - people who call themselves "Tea Party" - are passing Jones's message among themselves?

If you want to be suspicious of the media hacks and the celebrity politicians who have tried to tried to associate themselves with the Tea Party movement, I'm with you 100%. I don't trust them either.
But the "talking heads" you see on TV are not the Tea Party movement. The movement is the tens of millions of voters who are fed up with "business as usual"; ordinary citizens who are trying to learn more about the Federal Reserve, and studying the Constitution, and hoping to vote for candidates who share their concerns.

[22shot]

Yea; you did miss something.

Read the first sentence in RunningOnMTs' post; and the first sentence in post 18.

As for why I used the term "both feet" (that means fully commited); read my post#2.

The "tea party" is a bunch of angry; fed up voters (your words). They don't have the exclusive right to that. Read paragraph #2, post 18.

Media "talking heads" are not tea party (FOX does a good imitation, though)? Garwsh; I didn't know that....

As to my veiws of the "Tea Party" I'm pretty much in the open: post 2; 2nd paragraph; !st. paragraph, post 18.

Iv'e never objected to passing messages; used to do that in grade school.

[ofitg]

Originally Posted by RunningOnMT

This is something I copied from my local tea party's group email. I don't know this person but I think he explains our dilemma pretty well. What we do about it is the question.

mark

22shot, I hate to be the one who breaks this news to you....

a) Look at the original message, above. This was typed by Mark. It has nothing to do with Troy Jones's message.

b) Nothing in Jones's message identifies him as a "teabagger".

c) If your intent is to rebut Jones's message, you should present facts which rebut his assertions regarding the Federal Reserve.

As best as I can figure, you launched into a tirade against the Tea Party because they are concerned with issues like the Federal Reserve, and the Constitution, but they haven't mentioned your pet peeve - the collusion between big government and big business.

I could probably type a page or two about my disgust regarding the collusion between big government and big business, but now is not the time. I think it is a serious issue, but I'm really more worried about that $14 trillion debt hanging over our heads, and I'm really more worried about the ongoing surrender of U.S. sovereignty to foreign powers (eg, the United Nations).
If you are convinced that the collusion between big government and big business is the "issue to end all issues", I might suggest that you participate in your local Tea Party and present your case to them (instead of attacking them). If you present the facts in a rational manner, they would probably appreciate your input, and you might even help them weed out some "bad apples" from the 2012 candidates.

Now, all of that said and done, I'm still wondering about your mindset that corrupt government is somehow excusable, because "politicans are only human", while big corporations must be punished.
That sounds a lot like the mentality that got our Marxist president elected.

[22shot]

Beggin' yer pordon sir; the email wer adressed to Mark; frum Troy A. Jones. It wer copied frum RunningOnMT's tea party groop mail.

I was jus respondiin' to de topic heah "a good analysis of the problem" sir.

Dat Tea Party groop is a good un; I tink. Dem BP folks likes 'em.

I don tink y readin an understandin whut i am postin heah sir. Y readin whut i aint posted.

All BS aside; I posted my response to this topic; it is what it is. What can I say; this is the correct forum for it ;isn't it?

[ofitg]

It appears to me that "Mark" is RunningOnMT, and he doesn't know who Jones is. The fact that Mark received this message from his Tea Party associates does not mean that Jones sent it to him. It looks like the kind of article that somebody might have copied off a website somewhere, and forwarded to their friends.
If it turns out that Jones is one of Mark's associates, I will concede that you jumped to the correct conclusion, and I will owe you an apology.

But anyway, we have refrained from obscenities, so yes, I think we have utilized this forum in a proper manner.

I wish that you could have been involved with the Tea Party in Arizona's 5th Congressional district. They endorsed David Schweikert, and Schweikert defeated Harry Mitchell, but that Schweikert has a checkered past. The voters might have replaced one bad apple with another bad apple.

I have a better feeling about the Tea Party winner in Arizona's 1st Congressional district - Paul Gosar - a dentist by trade, and a newcomer to politics. He even made some remarks about repealing the 17th Amendment, and man alive, his opponent's political apparatus went ballistic with that one. I think Gosar might be a "keeper".

[RunningOnMT]

I guess, being the scumbag I am, I'll just slink back under my tea bag. Honestly 22, I don't think you have a clue about who makes up the tea party. We are actually quite a diverse bunch. Frankly your rhetoric can be heard at any number of socialist rallies over the last 40 years.

[22shot]

Thank you for clearing up the issue of who recieved the Tea Party email; ofig and I were at odds about that.

And I'm no "Socialist"; I'm American.