GCN: Gun Control Now

[MrsTeresa]

I honestly don't get what the big deal is. Everyone wants to just run around with their guns and get to brag about how great they are. If someone could just tell me, what good do guns bring to the world? Why are you all so hellbent on "protecting" your rights? I doubt many of you know much at all regarding the things you speak of, and there's no denying that without guns the world would be a much safer and happier place for us all. Rights? I have a RIGHT to be safe, and thats not something that happens with people such as yourselves toting the heat. Control laws all the way.

[Bill DeShivs]

Oh, there's denying it, all right.

[pickenup]

Originally Posted by MrsTeresa

Why are you all so hellbent on "protecting" your rights?

Why are you NOT???

[gendoikari87]

Originally Posted by MrsTeresa

I honestly don't get what the big deal is. Everyone wants to just run around with their guns and get to brag about how great they are. If someone could just tell me, what good do guns bring to the world? Why are you all so hellbent on "protecting" your rights? I doubt many of you know much at all regarding the things you speak of, and there's no denying that without guns the world would be a much safer and happier place for us all. Rights? I have a RIGHT to be safe, and thats not something that happens with people such as yourselves toting the heat. Control laws all the way.

wow, you are so wrong. What would happen if the world was free from guns? the criminals would go back to mastering hand to hand with swords and knives. and then those that aren't swordmasters would be ****ed. Guns equalized society, made it so that the little guy could stand up to the big thieving (Edited by Admin) of the world.

Besides, guns don't kill people, people kill people. Guns are just a means to do that, without them people go back to bows and arrow, which are far more advanced than they were back before firearms. Not to mention the nasty poisons one could coat HTH weapons and arrows with. the invention of guns never increased violence, it just made it less safe for the criminals to be criminals.

not to mention they make oppressing the masses a LOT harder to do when the populace is armed. I mean what happend after the average indiviual was able to afford rifles, revolutions for democracy, something that COULD not have happed if it was just peasants with pitchforks going up against knights in full plate armor with modern steel making techniques.

Not to mention what happens when you actually try to ban firearms. Know what happens then? you disarm the LAW ABIDING citizens, you know the ones that DON"T go around killing people. The criminals however ignore the laws and keep their guns, and know what that means, it means the law abiding citizen is the bitch of criminals and government alike, HAVE FUN BEING A SERF OR WORSE SLAVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Do your research and grow a brain.

[dons2346]

"Control laws all the way."

You said it. There are so many gun laws on the books now, your government can't enforce them!. Write your representatives and tell them you want the current laws on the books enforced. No need to make new ones.

I think you are a troll so go beat your drum somewhere else.

[gendoikari87]

I think you are a troll so go beat your drum somewhere else.

I disagree, i'd like her to get the freaking point that gun control laws make us LESS safe, it's types like her that are going to have us all corprate or government slaves by the year 2100.

[1969SS396]

Looks like we got us a forum troll....

[springerbuster]

[QUOTE=MrsTeresa Why are you all so hellbent on "protecting" your rights?


WTF? You have got to be kidding. By you saying "rights" I am assuming you mean all of our rights. People like you should move to a country where people have no rights if that is what you want, instead of trying to change this country into something that it is not. Study our history you P.O.S. And maybe you will understand what the term "rights" really means.

[1969SS396]

"The Gun Is Civilization" by Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret) Human beings only have two ways to deal with one another: reason and force. If you want me to do something for you, you have a choice of either convincing me via argument, or force me to do your bidding under threat of force.

Every human interaction falls into one of those two categories, without exception. Reason or force, that's it. In a truly moral and civilized society, people exclusively interact through persuasion. Force has no place as a valid method of social interaction, and the only thing that removes force from the menu is the personal firearm, as paradoxical as it may sound to some.

When I carry a gun, you cannot deal with me by force. You have to use reason and try to persuade me, because I have a way to negate your threat or employment of force. The gun is the only personal weapon that puts a 100-pound woman on equal footing with a 220-pound mugger, a 75-year old retiree on equal footing with a 19-year old gang banger, and a single guy on equal footing with a carload of drunk guys with baseball bats.

The gun removes the disparity in physical strength, size, or numbers between a potential attacker and a defender. There are plenty of people who consider the gun as the source of bad force equations. These are the people who think that we'd be more civilized if all guns were removed from society, because a firearm makes it easier for a [armed] mugger to do his job. That, of course, is only true if the mugger's potential victims are mostly disarmed either by choice or by legislative fiat--it has no validity when most of a mugger's potential marks are armed.

People who argue for the banning of arms ask for automatic rule by the young, the strong, and the many, and that's the exact opposite of a civilized society. A mugger, even an armed one, can only make a successful living in a society where the state has granted him a force monopoly. Then there's the argument that the gun makes confrontations lethal that otherwise would only result in injury. This argument is fallacious in several ways.

Without guns involved, confrontations are won by the physically superior party inflicting overwhelming injury on the loser. People who think that fists, bats, sticks, or stones don't constitute lethal force watch too much TV, where people take beatings and come out of it with a bloody lip at worst. The fact that the gun makes lethal force easier works solely in favor of the weaker defender, not the stronger attacker. If both are armed, the field is level. The gun is the only weapon that's as lethal in the hands of an octogenarian as it is in the hands of a weight lifter. It simply wouldn't work as well as a force equalizer if it wasn't both lethal and easily employable.

When I carry a gun, I don't do so because I am looking for a fight, but because I'm looking to be left alone. The gun at my side means that I cannot be forced, only persuaded. I don't carry it because I'm afraid, but because it enables me to be unafraid. It doesn't limit the actions of those who would interact with me through reason, only the actions of those who would do so by force. It removes force from the equation... and that's why carrying a gun is a civilized act.

By Maj. L. Caudill USMC (Ret.) So the greatest civilization is one where all citizens are equally armed and can only be persuaded, never forced.

[Rooster Cogburn]

Originally Posted by gendoikari87

wow, you are so wrong. What would happen if the world was free from guns? the criminals would go back to mastering hand to hand with swords and knives. and then those that aren't swordmasters would be ****ed. Guns equalized society, made it so that the little guy could stand up to the big thieving assholes of the world.

God made man...Samuel Colt made all men equal

[gendoikari87]

Originally Posted by Rooster Cogburn

God made man...Samuel Colt made all men equal

hey, give John Moses Browning some credit too.

[MrsTeresa]

Proving my point. The people who think such as yourselves are all so quick to jump and begin by calling me names when all I did was ask a few questions. It's a proven fact that cities/states with more gun control laws enforced have lower crime rates. Maybe if you weren't all so concerned with owning power (your guns) you would realize that in order for a modern society to function properly the government must be held higher then our rights to an extent. Guns corrupt people, and people kill. You can honestly say that the world is a better place because everyone in the USA is allowed the right to bear arms? What are guns designed for: killing. Death. Destruction. Giving men false power.

[CampingJosh]

Originally Posted by MrsTeresa

I honestly don't get what the big deal is. Everyone wants to just run around with their guns and get to brag about how great they are. If someone could just tell me, what good do guns bring to the world?

Despite all the calls of "troll," I'm going to treat this as a genuine question. It is a fair one, and I'll do my best to answer it.

Firearms work to equal the force that each person is able to exert on any other person. If a young man of considerable size and strength decided that he wanted to take your car, your body, or your children, he would likely have the physical ability to take such from you. He is bigger, faster, and stronger than you, and it's quite possible that he even has some training in martial arts.
However, a firearm equalizes force. It allows each person the same ability to inflict critical damage on another, and it does so with (almost) no regard to the user's physical abilities. In the same scenario previously mentioned, the strong young man cannot force you to give up your car, your body, or your children if you have a means of neutralizing his attempted force. A firearm is the best such means.

Why are you all so hellbent on "protecting" your rights? I doubt many of you know much at all regarding the things you speak of, and there's no denying that without guns the world would be a much safer and happier place for us all.

Ma'am, you are speaking of a fantasy world. Nothing can be un-invented. Once it is here, it is here to stay.
There is no world without guns; there can only be a world where certain people have guns and others do not. If you trust those "certain people," whoever they may be, then you should certainly be in favor of gun control laws.
I have seen the affects of limiting firearms ownership to only certain people; the most vivid example of this is Nazi Germany, in which Jewish people (among others) were denied the right of owning firearms. They were then unable to resist the force of those with guns, and they were subject to genocide.

Rights? I have a RIGHT to be safe, and thats not something that happens with people such as yourselves toting the heat. Control laws all the way.

Whether you thought about this or not, you just made a very offensive statement there. "People such as" ourselves are caring, law-abiding citizens. We're the people who stop along side the road to help a stranger change the tire on her car. We're doctors, lawyers, clergymen, and farmers. Some are college-educated. Some are teachers. Some even work in childcare fields.
Each time one of us purchases a firearm from a retail establishment, the dealer must call and ask the FBI if that person is a legal and proper to own a firearm. A person is disqualified from this for any felony of any kind and any misdemeanor of domestic violence.
We are not the problem. We are responsible gun owners.

As far as your right to be safe, that is the very reason that we are in favor of allowing everyone to own firearms. We want every person to be able to resist coercion from those who want to do them harm.

Laws do not control the lawless. Laws control only those who respect laws. If a person is willing to attack and kill another human, why would we believe that this person would be inclined to obey laws regarding possession of an illegal item?
As we've said, nothing can be un-invented. Building a firearm from scratch can be done by a relatively unskilled person in a very short time (hours, not days). Even if all the guns in the world were destroyed and the factories were closed down, criminals would still obtain new guns. And without anyone to oppose them, they would be able to force their will on the rest of us mercilessly.

I do hope you stick around to discuss this with us. I think everyone could learn from this.

[CampingJosh]

Originally Posted by MrsTeresa

What are guns designed for: killing. Death. Destruction. Giving men false power.

Guns are designed to, through the power of some propellant and under the control of a human user, throw an object from one place to another. That's it. A gun can be used to kill. But that is not what it inherently does.

Or,said another way: What are ropes designed for?

[Rooster Cogburn]

Originally Posted by gendoikari87

hey, give John Moses Browning some credit too.

Sorry, meant no offense to Browning, I believe that was an old ad used by Colt, didn't quote the author as I don't know exactly where it originated just like how it sounded

[shorter260513]

I think California has some of the toughest gun laws and hold 3 spots in the top 10 most violent citys not to mention D.C , New York, Chicago just to name a few so more gun laws wont stop anything murder is illegal period but the people doing it arent really worried about what the law says

[ofitg]

Originally Posted by MrsTeresa

I honestly don't get what the big deal is. Everyone wants to just run around with their guns and get to brag about how great they are. If someone could just tell me, what good do guns bring to the world? Why are you all so hellbent on "protecting" your rights? I doubt many of you know much at all regarding the things you speak of, and there's no denying that without guns the world would be a much safer and happier place for us all. Rights? I have a RIGHT to be safe, and thats not something that happens with people such as yourselves toting the heat. Control laws all the way.

I think different people have different reasons. For some people, it's a matter of upholding their oaths to uphold and defend the Constitution.

For other people, it might be a keen awareness of the ugliness in this world... for example, 36 years ago, 100 thousand Khmer Rouge seized power in Cambodia and murdered two million unarmed civilians.
An armed populace may be the best guarantee that such a thing could never happen here.

[1969SS396]

Originally Posted by MrsTeresa

Proving my point. The people who think such as yourselves are all so quick to jump and begin by calling me names

I believe you started it with this....


"I doubt many of you know much at all regarding the things you speak of"

[gendoikari87]

double post aparently my internets screwy tonight.

[gendoikari87]

Or,said another way: What are ropes designed for?

Obviously they're for hanging people, we should ban them along side aluminum baseball bats, crowbars, cars (cause *GASP* you can run people over on purpose), and bleach.

OH and don't forget nitric acid and campfire fule, because you can make RDX out of that if you know what your doing.

Yup we should just ban everything that could possibly be used to kill.

[MrsTeresa]

You're telling me that you would honestly shoot someone stealing your car? And then go to jail for manslaughter.. what you all are failing to understand is that you have the wrong approach. The man attacks you physically? Run. Claim he's faster? It's your own fault for not being in shape enough to outrun him. He pulls a gun? Sure, then you could do the same... but oh, wait.. that wouldn't happen with more gun control laws would it? Regardless, why even risk it rising to such a level, take guns out of the picture completely. The government has the power to do as it wishes. If guns were to be banned, they would take care of them. Remove them from civilian circulation and I guarantee the crime would be reduced by AT THE LEAST, 50%

[gendoikari87]

again....

[gendoikari87]

Um... Run? So they can shoot you in the back. Even if they don't are you going to run when they come for your house, your children? To rape YOU! I'm sorry but I'm not going to let my family be in danger because I'm too much of a coward to protect my family and my livelihood.

It's your own fault for not being in shape enough to outrun him

I'm sorry i'm too busy being a physicist deriving the laws of the universe and studying quantum mechanics so we can build a better society to go on a two hour run every morning.

you would honestly shoot someone stealing your car?

What makes you think he's going to stop at stealing a car, he might stop at that, but he might also graduate to armed robbery, he might also panic and kill someone. God forbid he's a gang member and shoots first before politely asking for your car keys.

Remove them from civilian circulation and I guarantee the crime would be reduced by AT THE LEAST, 50%

no, mam I assure you crime would rise at least 100% or more, Maria salvaturcha for one would have field day slaughtering the innocent cowering in their beds. But wait, there's enough black market guns to make sure every MS member has a fully auto AK-47 so it wouldn't just be with swords and kives but with fully auto weapons. Talk about becoming sheep before the slaughter.

The government has the power to do as it wishes.

NO, it has the power to do what it's people want, go read the social contract.

[Awtoman]

MrsTeresa, a suggestion if I may. If you come here with good intentions, such as having your questions answered about a controversial subject that is of concern to you, and you do it in a way that is polite and respectful, you will be treated politely and respectfully, and hopefully get some of the answers you seek. We may or may not agree in the end, but you will get an honest, fair discussion if that is what your looking for.

If you wish to demean the members of this forum, through your choice of words, insinuation, and tone, again you probably will get what you are asking for. If somebody came to your house, and talked to you as you have done with some, not all, of your statements, you would not take too kindly to it I suspect.
Would you like to try starting off on the other foot?

Tom

[ckelley]

He pulls a gun? Sure, then you could do the same... but oh, wait.. that wouldn't happen with more gun control laws would it?

Take a look at drugs. Heroin, cocaine, meth are all banned by the government. Nobody in this country uses these drugs, because that would be illegal! This is not the case. People that use these drugs even though they are illegal. Because these people are criminals! Just because something is illegal or banned does not mean that people that shouldn't have them cannot get them.