Re: Iver Johnson arms and cycle Works

[Moosr1129]

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Hello out there,

Just purchased a H&R and an IJ and would like to know any information about them. The following is all I know based on the seller and the guns themselves. (see photo's)

Are either safe to use modern cartridges?

H&R:
32 S&W Ctg on left side of barrel. .32 S&W long.

"HARRINGTON & RICHARDSON ARMS CO.
"WORCHESTER MASS U.S.A." on top of barrel rib.

Break top. 6" barrel with top rib. Blue finish. 6 shot cyl. fluted. Black hard rubber/plastic grips with target at top.

s/n 443981 matching numbers on bottom of grip frame (butt) and cylinder face.


Iver Johnson:
32 S&W short. No markings for this anywhere.

"IVER JOHNSON ARMS & CYCLE WORKS"
" FITCHBURG MASS U.S.A. " on top of barrel rib.

Break top. Blue finish. 3 in barrel with top rib. 5 shot cyl. fluted. Black hard rubber/plastic grips with OWL at top.

s/n L18625 under left side grip panel. 18625 stamped into bottom of trigger guard.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Hello out there,

Just purchased a H&R and an IJ and would like to know any information about them. The following is all I know based on the seller and the guns themselves. (see photo's)

Are either safe to use modern cartridges?

H&R:
32 S&W Ctg on left side of barrel. .32 S&W long.

"HARRINGTON & RICHARDSON ARMS CO.
"WORCHESTER MASS U.S.A." on top of barrel rib.

Break top. 6" barrel with top rib. Blue finish. 6 shot cyl. fluted. Black hard rubber/plastic grips with target at top.

s/n 443981 matching numbers on bottom of grip frame (butt) and cylinder face.


Iver Johnson:
32 S&W short. No markings for this anywhere.

"IVER JOHNSON ARMS & CYCLE WORKS"
" FITCHBURG MASS U.S.A. " on top of barrel rib.

Break top. Blue finish. 3 in barrel with top rib. 5 shot cyl. fluted. Black hard rubber/plastic grips with OWL at top.

s/n L18625 under left side grip panel. 18625 stamped into bottom of trigger guard.

[Xracer]

Hi Moosr1129.....welcome to TFF.

Keep checking back. Our resident expert on Iver Johnsons & H&Rs, Bill Goforth, should be along shortly to tell you all you'd like to know about your guns.




*Shameless Plug*
Books by Bill Goforth:
Iver Johnson's Arms & Cycle Works 1871-1993
H&R Arms Company 1871-1986 (due fall of 2008)
available from www.gunshowbooks.com

[b.goforth]

the iver johnson is a safety automatic hammerless second model small frame 32 S&W caliber. the "L" letter code was used in 1904. all second model (1896-1908) safety automatic hammerless revolvers were manufactured for black powder cartridge pressures only and are not safe with modern ammo.

the H&R is a large frame Auto-Ejector third model the serial number is in the range of the fourth variation manufactured between 1916 and 1924. this revolver if in good shootable condition will be safe with modern 32 S&W of 32 S&W Long ammo. the longer barrel on this revolver was a standard factory offering but usually had to be special ordered.
bill

[Moosr1129]

would like to thank you for the information. this has to be the greatest site I have encountered.

Thank You,

Moosr1129

[bukeller]

I have recieved a Iver-Johnson 22 cal. 5 7/8 barrel 8 shot revolver from my dad. He told me that it was my great grandfathers. I didn't know if you might have the time & resoures to find the year it was made & maybe the value. It is a model 844 and was made in Fitchburg,Mass.The number under the triger guard is A1324

[Old Gun Guy]

I can give Mr. Goforth a rest by plagiarizing his book. You have a Supershot top-break revolver w/ a 6" barrel. It was manufactured in 1956. In 100% condition, you're looking at around $110, down to about $60. in 60% condition.
Old Gun Guy

[b.goforth]

thanks for the help. but i feel compelled to give the latest values as listed in the new 30th edition of the blue book (which just came out).

22 SUPERSHOT THIRD MODEL (AKA MODEL 844)------------------1955-1957
Features the HAMMER THE HAMMER ACTION. Known as the Model 844 the third model 22 Supershot is the last of a line of top break revolvers that can trace it ancestry to 1894 when the Safety Automatic revolver First Model was introduced. The only difference that can be seen between the third model and late production second models is the cylinder, which is unfluted on the third model. Only offered with a blue finish and large oversized checkered wood grips. The barrel is flat sided round, round on the bottom with a full length rib. Caliber 22 rimfire with 8 rounds cylinder capacity; Cylinder has recessed chambers and flash control front rim; Barrel length: 4 ½ inches and 6 inches; Sights are fully adjustable; Weight: with 4 ½ inch barrel 24 ounces with 6 inch barrel 27 ounces; Frame height 3 7/8 inches; Frame length 5 inches; overall length: with 4 ½ inch barrel 9 ¼ inches, with 6 inch barrel 10 ¾ inches. Main serial number location on left side of grip frame grips must be removed to see. This model will be marked MODEL 844.
VALUE: 100%=$300 60%=$175

bill

[marcodelat]

From comparing the prices given it would seem that these revolvers are appreciating quickly.

Is this due to the "value" of our dollar... or developing interest in collecting... or both just wondering.

I wonder, Mr. Goforth, if you, as a person very involved in collecting (and promoting the collecting of) these pistols seen / noticed a significant interest in these as collectables?

I know I'm "hooked" on 'em...

Edited to add:

BEAUTIFUL revolvers you have there Moosr1129, specially like the H&R with the 6' barrel

[Tikun]

I have a somewhat strange question. My grandmother gave me my grandfathers gun that she had been keeping. After looking at the pictures, it is obviously an Ivers Johnson Hammerless, but the from of the barrel has been filed off so that there is no sight and half of the words on the barrel are missing (I can read Fitchburg Mass on one line and DEC 26 03 and then fuzz on the next)
The serial # is 16228.

Other than the usual questions that everyone asks, ie when is it from and how much is it worth (not that the second one matters much), my questions are
1) My grandmother always referred to it as my grandpa's 'service pistol'. He fought in the Abraham Lincoln Brigade as well as WWII and then was a postman. Which service was this probably his from?
2) I know little to nothing about guns. WHy would you guess he filed it down?

Thanks in advance for any help

[b.goforth]

tikun,
hard to determine exact date but most likely a late first model or early second model. manufactured between 1895 and 1897. the war of that era was the spanish american war but could have been used as late as wwI, but not military issue. during this time the military was more relaxed on soldiers carring personal protection handguns.

the barrel was cut off from it's original length to make it easier to carry in the pocket.
bill

[b.goforth]

marcodelet,
the increase in value of these firarms is a combination of all you state plus colt and S&W values have gone out of sight and the collector of modest means has to look elsewhere. i like to think my books and research have also helped in raising the values and collectibity but that is probably just in my head.
bill

[Tikun]

[QUOTE=b.goforth;428025]tikun,
hard to determine exact date but most likely a late first model or early second model. manufactured between 1895 and 1897. the war of that era was the spanish american war but could have been used as late as wwI, but not military issue. during this time the military was more relaxed on soldiers carring personal protection handguns.


--------------
Thanks for the info
I'm gonna assume my grandpa used it then when he fought in the Abraham Lincoln Brigade.

Any 'ish' on its value?

[marcodelat]

Originally Posted by b.goforth

marcodelet,
... i like to think my books and research have also helped in raising the values and collectibity but
that is probably just in my head.
bill

Well, I think you are wrong on this one Mr. Goforth!

[rosen789]

hi everyone i need some help identifying this forarm i think it is rare or worth some money but i don;t know what type of gun it is or the caliber it takes this is the information i can give you it says iver johnson arms and cycle works fitchburg mass usa patd april 6 86 feb 15 87 may 10 87 dec 26 93 pats pending its a 5 shot cylinder and has owl grips here are some pictures i took

[bspaero]

Hi !
There is a gentleman by the namwe of Goforth who has written the entire history of this gun. It is an Iver Johnson Safty Automatic in either 32SW&W or 38 S&W cal. there is also serial #s either on the butt, under the trigger guard and most definatly under the L/Grip you must remove the grip and record the letter & numbers located there. He provides information on all of thesee weapons but you need to provide as much info as possible . The barrel should also say Iver Johnson arms & cycle works Fitchburg Ma. Pats Pending. Good Luck

[b.goforth]

these four patent dates were only used for a couple of years on the second model 1895 - 1896. if this revolver has the letter code C as a prefix for the serial number found on the left side of the grip frame (under the grips) then the manufactured date will be 1896 if not then the date will be 1895.


SECOND MODEL SAFETY AUTOMATIC HAMMER REVOLVER
(Black Powder Cartridges)------------1896-1908
LARGE FRAME AND SMALL FRAME VERSIONS USES HAMMER THE HAMMER ACTION: Double top post barrel latch, nickel finish standard, blue optional, hard rubber grip panels with Owls head at top. Hammer the Hammer action, two frame sizes, and three calibers. Standard barrel length: small frame 3 inches, large frame 3 ¼ inches; Calibers: small frame .22 rimfire 7 rounds cylinder capacity, .32 centerfire 5 rounds cylinder capacity, large frame .38 centerfire 5 rounds cylinder capacity; Weight: small frame with 3 inch barrel .22 rimfire 12 ounces, .32 centerfire 12 ¼ ounces, large frame with 3 ¼ inch barrel 17¼ ounces; Frame height: small frame 3 ¼ inches, large frame 3 7/8 inches; Frame length: small frame 4 3/26 inches, large frame 5 inches; Overall length: small frame with 3 inch barrel 6 3/8 inches, large frame with 3 ¼ inch barrel 7 3/8 inches. Only difference between the first and second model is the barrel latch. Main serial number location on left side of grip frame grips must be removed to see. The Second Model features a double top post barrel latch, flat leaf hammer spring and two cross pins in the lower frame.
VALUE: 100%=$275 60%=$135
For revolvers equipped with Bourne Knuckleduster add 100%

bill

[10_point_buck]

I think I found the spot to ask this question, so here goes:

I inherited a gun that was my great-great-great grandfathers. I'd like to know if anyone could tell me more about it.

1) Age
2) Value
3) History

Here is what I have:

Iver Johnson's
Arms and Cycle Works
Fitchburg, Mass USA
Champio
-410 Bore-Barrell and (cant read it) forged into one.
Serial number 38045C

It is a .410 shotgun.

[b.goforth]

see the answer i gave to your other post.
bill

[ColtsGreenvilleNC]

Mr. Goforth:

My name is Glenn in Winterville, NC I own a local gun shop and have come across an unmarked (believed to be Iver Johnson) .22 revolver. It is marked "Defender" and has 80% of the original silver/chrome finish. Also, it has some engraving.

If you are still on the world wide web and this message some how gets to you, could you please give me a ball park, retail value?

Thank you,

Glenn
Winterville, NC
Colt's Guns and Pawn
252.321.2658

[RJay]

Well, the name Defender is listed as being used by Johnson and Bye, ( which was to become Iver Johnson ), Iver Johnson, and one Spanish maker. Both of the first listed guns had spur triggers and are black powder frames { 1873-1889, smokeless frames started in 1909 } untill, nickle finish. These were inexpensive guns when built ( less than two dollars ) and still have low values, however no valid information can be given with out pictures. Most of the guns I have seen were well worn and sold between 75 and 125 dollars.