Flintlock pistol information

[richb134]

Hi
I am new to the thread and would appreciate any info you can give me on an old flintlock pistol my dad left me when he passed away in 1998. I know nothing about guns and have tried to attach pictures twice and lost my post so please bear with me. I am quite sure this gun is not a reproduction because dad went through the depression and never spent a penny he didn't have to. The condition is rough as some of the wood is cracked. I remember seeing the gun in the 1970's as a child and thought it was marked 1776 (No, i'm not making that up). I am curios as to history and value if anyone has an opinion. My email is brunger7@yahoo.com. I will TRY to add photos to this thread but I wanted to post somthing to get the ball rolling during the blizzard outside. Thanks in advance for any information.
Rich

[Jackman]

Pics are an important part , post some up....

I have two old early American muskets ,one pistol and the other a long gun Ive found it hard to gather info on the web...

[Jackman]

Nice I think the 1776 time period would be a flintlock , may be an expert will chime in ...

[richb134]

Thanks for the quick reply. I will post better pictures when the blizzard in Chicago is over!

[Buffalochip]

Well, it ain't no flintlock, blizzard or no. Not to say it wasn't at one time. It is a percussion in its present form. Google "flintlock pistol"s and you will see what I mean. Estimated value in its present condition, $150-250.

[rhmc24]

It started out as a flintlock, now converted to percussion. Either a US military pistol or French because US military pistols of the period were pretty close copies of the French. With accurate measurements of length of barrel, overall length, length of lockplate, bore (caliber) measurement and better picture it can be ID to model and pretty close to date. I would restore it if I had it. rhmc24@yahoo.com

[redwing carson]

This gun was never a flint lock. It appears to have been a cap lock production handgun. This gun could have been made any time from
1840 to the 1930s. It is one of the imports most likely from Europe.
Due to its very poor condition it would have little value.

RC

[Jim K]

No, it was not a flintlock and certainly doesn't date to 1776. I don't recognize it as anything made in the U.S. I think it dates to the 1840-1860 period; if you can remove the barrel (carefully!) you might find proof marks that at least would indicate the country of origin.

It does not appear to have been an expensive gun, but FWIW I don't think it is a modern reproduction. It is in such poor condition that even as an antique, it would have a low value. Anonymous guns of that type and age bring roughly $100-200 as decorators.

Jim

[rhmc24]

Having done a bit of investigating the past few hours I can refer you to documentation that it is the French Model of 1763. It is real, it was flint. If you look at the biggest picture of the lock on the right side & see two round dots sort of pink in color, at the bottom just to the left of where the screw comes thru, the dots are the plugged holes where the frizzen spring was mounted. As I said before, if it were mine I would restore it.

[BullShoot]

I agree with rhmc24 that this pistol was made originally in flint and was later converted to percussion. I think I agree with him that it was originally a French M.1763 - with some reservations.

Pistols of French ordnance manufacture were marked on the lockplate indicating where they were made - Charleville or Libreville, for example. This usually appears in front of the hammer but may also be seen sometimes at the rear of the lockplate. Unless it has been too scrubbed to show this, it should be under the rust. Frequently this was a light engraving on the steel and consequently a too-vigorous cleaning can obliterate it.

The date should also be on the pistol. If that '1776' is still there it should be either on the barrel tang or at the rear end of the barrel - in both cases, visible without removing the barrel. In addition, there should be other marks on the barrel. Perhaps the poster can check and provide a few more photos.

One other note - the lanyard ring is not original French arsenal work.

As to value, one of these in far, far better condition, well-used, sold at auction in March of 2010 for 1400.00. With that as the upper end, perhaps someone might be able to advise the owner what the current market value might be considering the alterations and the poor condition.

BullShoot

[richb134]

Thank you for all of the information! It might make sense that it is french and may be another gun dad brought back from Europe at the end of WW2. I may look into having it restored in the furure. I remember taking to school as a child for show and tell! How times have changed. Thanks again.
Rich

[richb134]

Ah ha! I t does say 1763 to the left of the hammer! The internet just amazes me. In one night I was able to find out what I have with all of your help! I would appreciate your help with some of the other guns he brought back and will post soon. Thanks again

[rhmc24]

Other than having owned one and worked on a few of them, my documentary source is the book Armes de Poing* Militaires Francaises by R.E. Brooker. Several pages are devoted to the 1763, made in St Etienne, Maubeuge and Charleville in two barrel lengths long for Dragoons and short (this one) Marine (Navy), various details. Time, model and date wise is likely was used in the French and Indian War, American Revolution or both.
*poing=fist

[Jim K]

Well, I sure missed those plugged holes, but rhmc24 is right about it having been originally flintlock, and a French Model 1763, but the gun has been altered a lot; what I presume is a lanyard loop is certainly not original. The band spring looks to be slanted, but the pictures are so poor it is hard to tell.

All I can say is "good eyes" folks.

Jim

[BullShoot]

FYI - I mentioned Charleville and Libreville as manufacturing localities. I think they are one and the same place with a name change due to the revolution.

As for barrel length, it is my understanding that some were originally issued with long barrels and were then later cut down to shorter ones.

BullShoot

[Norman]

#1 This is not a FLINTLOCK pistol it is a percussion cap pistol (2) different eras!! I,m sure it is worth something-----Go slow--- get all data --builder--barrel manufacture--lock manufacture ---this info could be on the underside of barrel.
good luck
smokestick

[flintlockandsteel]

Ok here goes for a first post.
I have one of these as a flintlock. Looked a bit like this one when I got it.
Yes Charleville and Libreville are one and the same. Libreville only appears on locks roughly between 1792/96. After that it reverts to Charleville possibly with a maker's name.
Early ones had brass furniture. This one looks as though its steel so of the 1790's production era.
The 1763 had a 12" barrel which was shortened to 9" on the 1766 pattern variation as it was apparently more manageable. Hence you'll sometimes see them listed as 1763/66.
1763 still appears on the tang even 30+ years later which can be confusing.
I'm pretty sure that the stock is a replacement, just looks grainy and not a nice walnut as it should be.
The lanyard ring is added but quite some time ago.
This image if it works is mine as found. The original barrel band is lost and is in this image replaced by a brazed steel band.
If you know of a barrel band hiding some place I'm in the market for one. Can't get one in the UK.

[dpmccain]

I have an old flint handgun that I am needing for information about. Can anyone tell me anything about this gun?


http://s1263.beta.photobucket.com/us...26550074487517

[RJay]

It would have been much better if you had started a new post rather than tacked on to an old one. However, don't know, we have some folks that know these old guns pretty good, but not not me. There are a few things that bother me, the use of modern screws holding that side plate on, and the side plate doesn't look as if it belongs, the trigger guard is nailed on, which is never done on a proper gun, the brass fittings look as if they were cast, and unfinished. It may be a mid eastern gun, or it could be a gun made from bits and pieces of other guns. Your pictures are rather fuzzy and had to make out detail. If I had to make a snap decision, I would say it was a tourist gun, made to sell in the bazaar to rich American tourists or naive GI's. But , then again I could be wrong, which has happened one or twice in my life.