Accuracy & CCW Questions.....

[Charlie9]

Can you guys please give me some input. I have a CCW permit and I want to carry a 9mm Pistol (not 1911 style) that is the most accurate pistol I can get my hands on. I currently carry a CZ Shadow, but it is big and heavy for a inside the pants pistol. I don't care what it costs but am looking for something a little lighter. To me "accuracy" is what is the most important item. Also I have a Springfield XD-M in 9mm and am not impressed with its accuracy. Someone told me the Sigs are good but their grips are large and cumbersome. Hope to hear from you. Thank You. Someone on another website suggested pistols such as the Sig P-210 or the S&W 952, but they are both "big and heavy" pistols. Too big for concealed carry. Thank You to all. This is my FIRST post. Charlie9

[CampingJosh]

Welcome to TFF, Charlie.

The Shadow is a great pistol, but I agree that it is pretty big for concealment. The SIG P210 is also very accurate, but it is no smaller than your Shadow.

One thing to remember with defensive pistols is that you're not likely to be shooting at ranges beyond 10 yards, and many people use 7 yards as the limit. At this range, I've found that even super-tiny micro pocket pistols can consistently hit an object the size of a human heart, which is perfectly acceptable accuracy for defensive purposes.

If you're looking to shoot one ragged hole at 25 yards, the reduced sight radius alone makes it difficult. Adding in that most weapons intended for carry are pretty lightweight and don't have match-grade barrels, this becomes almost impossible.

Maybe someone else will have a suggestion for a better weapon, but my only idea is to find the shots grouped within 3" to be perfectly acceptable for CCW purposes.

[ozo]

Welcome Charlie
Sometimes we have to give and take to get what we want.
In this case, you want a small carry gun, smaller and lighter
than you already have.....I suggest the Ruger LCP or something
comparable. The .380 ammo is not expensive if you only need
a couple of boxes. [or re-load some]
You already have a couple of range guns to go have fun with.
To expect both accuracy at 25yds and a tiny, light carry gun
is defying physics. Longer barrel-better accuracy, simple.
Josh said it very well in his above post.
Once again, another reason to have multiple 'toys'. Like your wife's
shoe collection, she needs choices depending on how she dresses,
same with a CCW, you need choices for your wardrobe.
Thank God we live in America where we have plenty of choices.

[Helix_FR]

You need to understand that there is a direct correlation between a compact gun and your ability to be accurate with it compared to a full size gun. The guns themselves are accurate no matter how small, its the user that will throw a wrench in that.

[Charlie9]

I posted this very important question back on Feb 28th and have only had 3 replys. I have had no real true answers to my questions. VERY DISSAPOINTING.

[Country101]

Hey Charlie. Welcome to the forum. Seems like you posted kinda in a dead zone.

The Sigs are very good guns, in my opinion. I carry at home and work, a sig 226DAK. I dont find it too hard to carry IWB, personally, and I am only about 5'10"/200 and wear jeans and a loose tshirt. I also carry a full size 1911 IWB without undue discomfort.

On the topic of sigs, I believe a few models have grips that will interchange to accomodate your hands. I consider my 226 light until I add the full magazine. When I bought my personaly one, several other people that had never handled one before mentioned that it was very light until I inserted the mag.

As far as other alternatives, I dont have any specific recommendations to give you, from what I am reading into your post. I am against most smaller guns, but this is just personal preferance), so I dont have any experience to lend here. It seems like that is what you are wanting, so I will just leave you with a few recomendations and suggestions, that you can do with as you please.

I recommend a gun with a 4" barrel, for the sight radius. Shorter just makes it harder to aim. If you are carrying IWB, which is my preferred method, the barrel length wont be much of an issue. The larger gun also helps with recoil, allowing you to get back on target quicker, meaning follow up accuracy is improved. On IWB, the length of the grip is the largest hinderance. The sig is a stubbier grip, that is thicker, but shorter. I dont have as much problem with this type of grip, as opposed to a longer grip that pokes out more.

I dont know how much experience you have with carrying, but I would recommend trying some differant holsters or styles of carrying before you rule out all larger guns. Holster type, setup, and position can make a lot of differance. The way you dress can affect all these factors.

A lot of manufacturers will garuntee thier guns to shoot a certain group out of a vice, if they are worth thier weight. Atleast they do this in the 1911 world. Most will shoot 1 inch groups at 25 yards. You might go to some of the major maufacturers and look though thier line ups and see if they have some kind of statement about them. And then try to go feel as many of them as you can.

I probably wasn't, but hope I was of some help to you. If you have any questions I can answer more directly, let me know. I'm not on all the time, but I will try to check in with the thread.

Again, welcome to the forum!

[deen_ad]

Originally Posted by Charlie9

I posted this very important question back on Feb 28th and have only had 3 replys. I have had no real true answers to my questions. VERY DISSAPOINTING.

And.....

Your point is?

Seems to me that the question was answered, just maybe not the way you wanted it.

For most "social engagements" at short distances you only need 3" (COM) or so accuracy. Anything more is just for the range and bragging rights.

8 former US Presidents have been NRA Members
80 MILLION gun owners didn't shoot anyone today, a few criminals did!

----------------------------------------------------------

Deen
NRA Benefactor/Recruiter
Washington Arms Collector member
South West Washington Arms Collector member

[todd51]

+1 on what Helix said. All the guns are accurate but we as individuals are able to shoot more accurately with one model as opposed to another. I personally do much better with a snubby revolver than I do with a small semi auto but that is me not the guns. If you like semi autos and price is not a problem take a look at the Kahr PM 9 pistols. At a lesser cost Ruger has just come out with a new LC9 that looks real promising but I haven't handled or shot one.

[Jay]

This is strictly my opinion, and has worked in many years of firearms training, and for men and ladies alike. Buy a handgun just like you would buy a pair of shoes. If Ol' Joe over here says he likes Charlie China tennis shoes, and you're looking for a new pair of shoes, do you run out and buy Joe's pick, just because HE likes 'em? Probably not. If a new shooter is asking what to buy for a carry gun, it doesn't matter what works for me, or anyone else. I suggest telling that new shooter to go to many gun shops, and/or gun shows, and handle all the guns they can get hold of. Just like they would try on shoes. Before long they'll be able to make a list of guns that feel ok, pretty good, real good, and "that really feels great in my hands". The last two are the ones to pursue, and here's why I say that....
If a given handgun doesn't feel "right" in your hands, you'll not shoot it enough to become proficient with it, because it's not comfortable, and you won't like shooting it. Just like you rarely wear shoes that are UNcomfortable. If you're not gonna become proficient with it, save your money, and buy a ball bat to carry. With proper fundamentals, he/she can learn to shoot almost any handgun, or any caliber. Very few folks can re-train their hands to make just any handgun feel comfortable. The last suggestion.........proper shooting techinques, practiced slowly, but proficiently, will breed speed. Do it slowly, and do it the right way, every time.......If you practice speed first, and introduce less efficient techniques into your training, you'll have to do it all over again to get it right.

By the way..... anyone who introduces a new shooter to our pastime by having them start with a large-caliber handgun, makes a very poor decision. Yes, some folks do ok starting out with large calibers, but the vast majority will not continue to shoot if their very 1st experience is with .50 S&W. Start with a .22 caliber something, and as your technique/accuracy improves, work up from there.

The definition of accuracy may vary greatly from shooter to shooter, but center mass is usually applied to defensive shooting.

Again, just my ramblings.... but they work for me...

Shoot Safely....

[intimidator3]

Charlie I 've been looking for 3 mo. now and still don't have my carry gun. A lot of friends carry Keltec PF9. I'm waiting to see the Ruger LC 9. Get one that fits your hand and you like. Love my Walther P5, but is too heavy. Good luck, Im lookin too. The LC9sounds just right, but you have to hold it.

[Helix_FR]

Charlie, you asked "what is more accurate" They all are accurate. You put them on a ransom rest they will all shoot POA. Its up to the user if its going to work for them or not. You can give me a glock 30 and a FN40 same size and all. FN40 I'll hit POA, Glock I'll shoot high, glocks don't work for me. It don't mean the glock is inaccurate, it just means it don't fit my shooting style.
Your question is like governing the speed on 2 cars then asking me which one is faster.

[Double D]

I agree with helix. I have people come to my ccw class with a snubbie and it takes 30-40 rounds to get on paper at 7 yds. They say the gun is junk. I take the gun and place all shots in the kill zone and they dont know what to say. It is up to each individual to determine what will and wont work for them. I had to buy a dozen holsters and carry several firearms before I found exactly what I wanted to carry everyday, and that changes with certain situations. So, we cant tell you what is right for you. Get what feels right and then practice with it until you can hit what you are aiming at, and then practice some more.

[Shooter45]

Originally Posted by Charlie9

I posted this very important question back on Feb 28th and have only had 3 replys. I have had no real true answers to my questions. VERY DISSAPOINTING.

I guess you get what you pay for.

[jim brady]

Some folks call accuracy with their hunting rifles "minute of fur", meaning this is a hunting rifle and not a bench-rest rifle. I kind of take the same approach to my CCW pistol and my other handguns.

If you are shooting beyond close range, I doubt if a jury will believe that you were shooting in self-defence. And if you must shoot in self defence, you can count on being in court defending just why you had to shoot. You can't prove it, chances are real good that you'll have a new best friend named "Bubba".

That being said, to me at least, I want 1.) a caliber that offers at least reasonable stopping power (.380 ACP), 2.) one that feels comfortable in my hand with user-friendly controls (mag release, manual safety, etc), 3.) has the best possible natural point of aim, and finally 4.) one that I will carry because it's profile lends to conceal carry.

[Double D]

Originally Posted by Shooter45

I guess you get what you pay for.

[Gun Geezer]

Glock 26
Kel-Tec P9 or P-11

I have both. The Glock shoots the best but is the largest of sub-compacts. The trade off for size with the Kel-Tec's is the snappy recoil. The G-26 is the smoothest shooting 9mm I have ever shot, but it's not as pretty as my EMP!

[Charlie9]

Does anyone out there own a Sig Sauer P226 Platnum Elite????? Someone on another site said that is one of the ultimate pistols for "accuracy".????

[graehaven]

Originally Posted by Charlie9

Can you guys please give me some input. I have a CCW permit and I want to carry a 9mm Pistol (not 1911 style) that is the most accurate pistol I can get my hands on. I currently carry a CZ Shadow, but it is big and heavy for a inside the pants pistol. I don't care what it costs but am looking for something a little lighter. To me "accuracy" is what is the most important item. Also I have a Springfield XD-M in 9mm and am not impressed with its accuracy. Someone told me the Sigs are good but their grips are large and cumbersome. Hope to hear from you. Thank You. Someone on another website suggested pistols such as the Sig P-210 or the S&W 952, but they are both "big and heavy" pistols. Too big for concealed carry. Thank You to all. This is my FIRST post. Charlie9

Welcome!

Sorry if you're not getting the answers expected.

Get a Glock 26 in your hands and see how that is. Other than that, go for a Keltec. Either one you can carry all day with no problem, both light, accurate and reliable.

[Old Guy]

My most accurate gun is my 1911 but it is too big to carry due to our stupid no gun zones. I would constantly be undressing which would bring needless attention to myself and my gun. What do you want in accuracy? 7 yards is about the max for defensive shooting and even the LCP that I have is accurate at that distance although it is no fun to shoot. If you are looking at the 9 mm platform, you probably should look at the LC9, the SR9C, the M&P 9C for concealment. I mention them because they are American owned and made which would be my first criteria. As to the accuracy all guns have their quirks just like us. You either adapt to the quirk or you trade the gun. Most accuracy issues ultimately are we the shooter. Good luck in your search.

[Diamondback]

I carry, depending on conditions, one of three different pistols. A Taurus 1911 .45 acp , a Taurus PT99 9mm or an antique Beretta Gordone vt 1944 in .32 acp. The thing about all three in that I can put 8 rounds of .45, 16 rounds of 9mm or 8 rounds of .32 in a 9" pie plate at 7 yds rapid fire. For self defense this all the accuracy you need. If you desire to put every round through one button hole at 25 yds then have yourself a race gun built. This is MHO and not a criticism of any ones personal choice in carry guns.

By the way I own two very fine Ruger Mk I's that are capable of better groups than I am capable of shooting.

[CampingJosh]

Many shooters will use an out-of-the-box SIG P220 or P226 for competition and find the accuracy perfectly acceptable for that purpose. However, neither are compact guns. They're actually both larger than your Shadow.

Maybe a 1911 would be your best bet. They're rather thin and come in multiple sizes (and therefore concealable), and there are thousands of gunsmiths who specialize in making 1911s accurate. Here are a couple websites to get you started in that direction: http://www.lesbaer.com/ http://www.stiguns.com/

[Helix_FR]

The 226 is a great gun and used a lot for competition but its one of the largest frames sig has.

[noslolo]

Go to a range that rents guns and see what fits your hand, then try them out. I carry a

Kahr CW40 and I love it. The CW9 is a little easier to shoot and both will out shoot the

owner. Any time you are going smaller with the handgun, you will have to have more range

time to get used to the firearm. When I bought my first carry gun, I ran out to the range

and I had a hard time keeping hits on the paper. I handed it over to my father in law who

has been shooting far longer than I, and he put everything in the black and loved my little .

40. It took a good chunk of range time and a little bit of instruction, and then I saw a major

difference in my shooting.

[the yooper]

welcom charlie9
i carry a G22 or G23 love them both my wife likes a SW9 the ? is what works for you..... go try some out. hope this helps good luck
ps. we all ben through it

[hogger129]

Originally Posted by Charlie9

Can you guys please give me some input. I have a CCW permit and I want to carry a 9mm Pistol (not 1911 style) that is the most accurate pistol I can get my hands on. I currently carry a CZ Shadow, but it is big and heavy for a inside the pants pistol. I don't care what it costs but am looking for something a little lighter. To me "accuracy" is what is the most important item. Also I have a Springfield XD-M in 9mm and am not impressed with its accuracy. Someone told me the Sigs are good but their grips are large and cumbersome. Hope to hear from you. Thank You. Someone on another website suggested pistols such as the Sig P-210 or the S&W 952, but they are both "big and heavy" pistols. Too big for concealed carry. Thank You to all. This is my FIRST post. Charlie9

Not sure what the Shadow is, but CZ has some pistols that are good for concealed carry. They are typically pretty accurate. The SIG P210 is considered one of the most accurate handguns ever made, but I don't think it would make a great CCW.

If the Springfield XDm is not your cup of tea, try out Glock. Glock makes pretty accurate pistols from what I hear.

And it's not all the gun either. A big part of "accuracy" is how proficient one is with their weapon. I mean take me for example. I can hit the target with my 1911. My Springer is just as good as most other 1911s out there and I'll bet an expert shooter like some here could shoot 1 1/2" groups with my gun.

I think in all fairness, if I was looking for a good carry gun, taking everything into account, I would either go with some type of 1911, a CZ75 model or a Glock. And I think if I got any Glock, I'd go for the 19. I've shot both the 19 and the 23 and the .40 S&W round in that gun is a little bit too much for me. The 9mm is much more manageable.