Value and history of 1916 Artillery Luger - The Firearms Forum

ejlvfr · 03-14-2011, 12:42 PM

Hello, I am new to the site and had a question about a Luger my dad is considering buying. It is a 1916 Artillery Luger with a leather holster that has the wood stock connected to it and a magazine holder. Also, there is a rod with wood handle (cleaning rod I guess), one regular magazine, a magazine loader and a drum magazine. The serial number is 13XX. There is also a 1917 Luger with a matching number magazine, serial number 25XX. Any information would be greatly appreciated.

ejlvfr · 03-14-2011, 12:49 PM

Here are some pictures

deadin · 03-14-2011, 01:16 PM

I hope he knows his Lugers! The rig you have described could bring up to 7 or 8 thousand dollars depending on condition and originality. (Maybe even more.) If he's not really confident about what he is getting into I would suggest he consult someone knowledgeable.
There are "reproduction" holsters, stocks, snail mags, etc. out there so be aware!

Jim K · 03-14-2011, 03:05 PM

Hi, ejlvfr,

Your pictures didn't come through. We will need good pics to determine, if possible, what the gun is and make a guess on the value. As deadin says, there are a lot of fakes out there, but an original would be very valuable.

Jim

ejlvfr · 03-14-2011, 05:29 PM

Sorry about the previous posting of pictures, I cannot get them to upload...however, here is a link to some pictures, with more to come. Thank you very much for your help!

http://redhillstactical.com/1916ArtilleryLuger.htm

valbehaved · 03-14-2011, 09:37 PM

Holster is definitely not WWI vintage - most likely a repro from the 60s-70s..which makes the rest of the rig suspect..
The rest of the pictures are too dark to make any educated guess about the gun and the rest of the accessories.
Given the fact that the holster is a repro- I would stay away.

redwing carson · 03-14-2011, 10:02 PM

You did not say what the asking price is. The photos are not close enough to tell anything. The holster may or may not be OK can't tell. The Snail Drum is for real and the othe items could make this "Lang Luger", interesting. There is not enough here for anyone to make call on this gun.

RC

muddober · 03-15-2011, 12:04 AM

I know nothing about Lugers but I am curious what makes that holster appear to be new production? Keep in mind I am not challenging that statment I am trying to learn. Another thing are there Luger guns out there that are fakes or just the parts. That drum clip would be no easy task to make on a single bases.

I know where I can buy any brand new Winchester barrel if I supply the old one and when you get it back you cannot tell it was made yesterday.

Ron

redwing carson · 03-15-2011, 07:32 AM

I might also mention. The use of a reproduction stock on your Lang Luger causes it to fall under the BATF SBR rule. As such must be registered as such. If you have an orginal Luger stock it can be owned with out being registered. The SBR law Short Barreled Rifle exemptes orginal Lugers with orginal stocks. This rule applies to Lugers with reproduction stock. I know it is stupid but that is how it is.

RC

valbehaved · 03-15-2011, 09:51 AM

Redwing:
Repro stocks are perfectly legal to own with appropriate lugers(without a need to register the gun as SBR) as long as the "artillery Luger" is mated with an "artillery repro stock" and the "navy luger" is mated with "navy luger repro stock" etc, etc, etc. But you cannot mate an Artillery Luger with a "navy style"repro stock.

regarding the holster question:
Look at the " square" stitching patern on the closure strap where it attaches to the body of the holster - that pattern is incorrect for the WWI holsters and is the first sign of the reproduction holster.
Both, drum mags and loading tools are being reproduced in numbers in Eastern Europe and look very good, except for a few minor incorrect details.

Jim Hauff · 03-15-2011, 09:51 AM

I'm with muddober on this one. I've seen a very few of these rigs as well as a couple reproduction holster/stock sets. I, with my small monitor screen and the long range photos would find it difficult to disqualify the originality of the items. Valbehaved, would you please share your misgivings? If authentic, the entire kit would be worth one heck of a lot of money. I've seen snail drum mags offered for sale in the $1K+ range.

redwing carson · 03-15-2011, 09:58 AM

Valbehaved thx. I had a BATF agent tell me last Sunday that my Lang Luger was illegel. It has a reproduction Artly. Stock. Could you please tell me where I can get the laws that you stated. THX

RC

Jim Hauff · 03-15-2011, 10:13 AM

val -
Good info, thanks for the edjeekation.

ejlvfr · 03-15-2011, 10:46 AM

Thanks for all of the information everyone! I am waiting for my dad to send my close-up pictures of everything so that I can get them on here...I really appreciate your expertise and assistance.

EJ

deadin · 03-15-2011, 10:46 AM

As Redwing said, you didn't mention just how much was being asked for this rig. If it is under, say $1500, you're probably safe regardless of originality. (unless there are some condition issues we can't see.) Over that, find an expert for a closer look.

valbehaved · 03-15-2011, 11:05 AM

Redwing:
You can call BATF central ofice and I am certain they can verify the information about luger stocks - I would suggest talking to someone in Firearms research division as they would the most qualified to answer your questions.

ejlvfr · 03-15-2011, 12:37 PM

This is part of a multiple firearm package my dad is looking at, including the 1917 Luger as well. I'm not sure what the total package price is, he hasn't said yet....hopefully I can get that out of him soon.

redwing carson · 03-15-2011, 02:08 PM

Val at this point I must say I am a little more than afraid to call them. THX

RC

nmckenzie · 08-17-2011, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redwing carson

Valbehaved thx. I had a BATF agent tell me last Sunday that my Lang Luger was illegel. It has a reproduction Artly. Stock. Could you please tell me where I can get the laws that you stated. THX

RC

Go to http://www.lugerforum.com/BATF2.html. That's the page I pulled up when trying to see whether a repro naval stock would be legal on a naval Luger - it is. It'll give you a starting point regarding BATF's regs on repro stocks.

nmckenzie · 08-17-2011, 02:29 PM

Went looking for a copy of the 1981 BATF letter addressing repro stocks, and of course couldn't find it. Went to Google Web and tapped in "Repro naval stock legal on naval Luger", and was directed to Still's Luger forum page on which, after scrolling down through a bunch of posts, I found the link which brought up the ATF letter. The resident computer wizard's out of town, and without her talking me through things I can't pull up the letter and post it here. It's a really round-about way of doing it, but if you go the Google route you'll eventually get to the BATF letter regarding repro stocks.

valbehaved · 08-17-2011, 04:44 PM

The difference between Luger Navy and artillery flat board shoulder stocks:
The Navy stocks are shorter and have an about 1 inch diameter brass/steel disc cut into the wood on the left side of the stock. Also, navy stocks have no 4 holes drilled on the right side for the leather tongue that went over the flap of the artillery luger holster...

03-14-2011, 12:42 PM	#1
ejlvfr Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 7	Value and history of 1916 Artillery Luger Hello, I am new to the site and had a question about a Luger my dad is considering buying. It is a 1916 Artillery Luger with a leather holster that has the wood stock connected to it and a magazine holder. Also, there is a rod with wood handle (cleaning rod I guess), one regular magazine, a magazine loader and a drum magazine. The serial number is 13XX. There is also a 1917 Luger with a matching number magazine, serial number 25XX. Any information would be greatly appreciated. -->

03-14-2011, 12:49 PM	#2
ejlvfr Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 7	Re: Value and history of 1916 Artillery Luger Here are some pictures

03-14-2011, 01:16 PM	#3
deadin Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 858	Re: Value and history of 1916 Artillery Luger I hope he knows his Lugers! The rig you have described could bring up to 7 or 8 thousand dollars depending on condition and originality. (Maybe even more.) If he's not really confident about what he is getting into I would suggest he consult someone knowledgeable. There are "reproduction" holsters, stocks, snail mags, etc. out there so be aware!

03-14-2011, 03:05 PM	#4
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: Value and history of 1916 Artillery Luger Hi, ejlvfr, Your pictures didn't come through. We will need good pics to determine, if possible, what the gun is and make a guess on the value. As deadin says, there are a lot of fakes out there, but an original would be very valuable. Jim

03-14-2011, 05:29 PM	#5
ejlvfr Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 7	Re: Value and history of 1916 Artillery Luger Sorry about the previous posting of pictures, I cannot get them to upload...however, here is a link to some pictures, with more to come. Thank you very much for your help! http://redhillstactical.com/1916ArtilleryLuger.htm

03-14-2011, 09:37 PM	#6
valbehaved V.I.P. Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 234	Re: Value and history of 1916 Artillery Luger Holster is definitely not WWI vintage - most likely a repro from the 60s-70s..which makes the rest of the rig suspect.. The rest of the pictures are too dark to make any educated guess about the gun and the rest of the accessories. Given the fact that the holster is a repro- I would stay away.

03-14-2011, 10:02 PM	#7
redwing carson Former Guest Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: western wyoming Posts: 734	Re: Value and history of 1916 Artillery Luger You did not say what the asking price is. The photos are not close enough to tell anything. The holster may or may not be OK can't tell. The Snail Drum is for real and the othe items could make this "Lang Luger", interesting. There is not enough here for anyone to make call on this gun. RC

03-15-2011, 12:04 AM	#8
muddober Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 1,436	Re: Value and history of 1916 Artillery Luger I know nothing about Lugers but I am curious what makes that holster appear to be new production? Keep in mind I am not challenging that statment I am trying to learn. Another thing are there Luger guns out there that are fakes or just the parts. That drum clip would be no easy task to make on a single bases. I know where I can buy any brand new Winchester barrel if I supply the old one and when you get it back you cannot tell it was made yesterday. Ron

03-15-2011, 07:32 AM	#9
redwing carson Former Guest Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: western wyoming Posts: 734	Re: Value and history of 1916 Artillery Luger I might also mention. The use of a reproduction stock on your Lang Luger causes it to fall under the BATF SBR rule. As such must be registered as such. If you have an orginal Luger stock it can be owned with out being registered. The SBR law Short Barreled Rifle exemptes orginal Lugers with orginal stocks. This rule applies to Lugers with reproduction stock. I know it is stupid but that is how it is. RC

03-15-2011, 09:51 AM	#10
valbehaved V.I.P. Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 234	Re: Value and history of 1916 Artillery Luger Redwing: Repro stocks are perfectly legal to own with appropriate lugers(without a need to register the gun as SBR) as long as the "artillery Luger" is mated with an "artillery repro stock" and the "navy luger" is mated with "navy luger repro stock" etc, etc, etc. But you cannot mate an Artillery Luger with a "navy style"repro stock. regarding the holster question: Look at the " square" stitching patern on the closure strap where it attaches to the body of the holster - that pattern is incorrect for the WWI holsters and is the first sign of the reproduction holster. Both, drum mags and loading tools are being reproduced in numbers in Eastern Europe and look very good, except for a few minor incorrect details.

03-15-2011, 09:51 AM	#11
Jim Hauff Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Lehigh Valley, PA Posts: 2,980	Re: Value and history of 1916 Artillery Luger I'm with muddober on this one. I've seen a very few of these rigs as well as a couple reproduction holster/stock sets. I, with my small monitor screen and the long range photos would find it difficult to disqualify the originality of the items. Valbehaved, would you please share your misgivings? If authentic, the entire kit would be worth one heck of a lot of money. I've seen snail drum mags offered for sale in the $1K+ range. __________________ Jim Hauff ~ H&R Collector In Memory of Bill Goforth and Jim Ritchie

03-15-2011, 09:58 AM	#12
redwing carson Former Guest Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: western wyoming Posts: 734	Re: Value and history of 1916 Artillery Luger Valbehaved thx. I had a BATF agent tell me last Sunday that my Lang Luger was illegel. It has a reproduction Artly. Stock. Could you please tell me where I can get the laws that you stated. THX RC

03-15-2011, 10:13 AM	#13
Jim Hauff Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Lehigh Valley, PA Posts: 2,980	Re: Value and history of 1916 Artillery Luger val - Good info, thanks for the edjeekation. __________________ Jim Hauff ~ H&R Collector In Memory of Bill Goforth and Jim Ritchie

03-15-2011, 10:46 AM	#14
ejlvfr Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 7	Re: Value and history of 1916 Artillery Luger Thanks for all of the information everyone! I am waiting for my dad to send my close-up pictures of everything so that I can get them on here...I really appreciate your expertise and assistance. EJ

03-15-2011, 11:05 AM	#16
valbehaved V.I.P. Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 234	Re: Value and history of 1916 Artillery Luger Redwing: You can call BATF central ofice and I am certain they can verify the information about luger stocks - I would suggest talking to someone in Firearms research division as they would the most qualified to answer your questions.

03-15-2011, 12:37 PM	#17
ejlvfr Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 7	Re: Value and history of 1916 Artillery Luger This is part of a multiple firearm package my dad is looking at, including the 1917 Luger as well. I'm not sure what the total package price is, he hasn't said yet....hopefully I can get that out of him soon.

03-15-2011, 02:08 PM	#18
redwing carson Former Guest Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: western wyoming Posts: 734	Re: Value and history of 1916 Artillery Luger Val at this point I must say I am a little more than afraid to call them. THX RC

08-17-2011, 02:29 PM	#20
nmckenzie Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Sitka, Alaska Posts: 1,921	Re: Value and history of 1916 Artillery Luger Went looking for a copy of the 1981 BATF letter addressing repro stocks, and of course couldn't find it. Went to Google Web and tapped in "Repro naval stock legal on naval Luger", and was directed to Still's Luger forum page on which, after scrolling down through a bunch of posts, I found the link which brought up the ATF letter. The resident computer wizard's out of town, and without her talking me through things I can't pull up the letter and post it here. It's a really round-about way of doing it, but if you go the Google route you'll eventually get to the BATF letter regarding repro stocks.

08-17-2011, 04:44 PM	#21
valbehaved V.I.P. Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 234	Re: Value and history of 1916 Artillery Luger The difference between Luger Navy and artillery flat board shoulder stocks: The Navy stocks are shorter and have an about 1 inch diameter brass/steel disc cut into the wood on the left side of the stock. Also, navy stocks have no 4 holes drilled on the right side for the leather tongue that went over the flap of the artillery luger holster... Last edited by valbehaved; 08-17-2011 at 10:54 PM..