Are AR-15's accurate?

[45nut]

I'm about to take the plunge and I want a flat top M-4 Carbine. My question is what kind of accuracy can I expect. I don't expect 1/2" groups at 100 yards, but I'd like to get better than the 4" groups I got with my Mini-14.

Question is this: Can those with experience rank the best to worst of the big producers. I can't afford a Colt, so exclude them please.

I'm leaning towards the Bushmaster or Olympic.

Any help is appreciated.

[Crpdeth]

Originally Posted by 45nut

I'm about to take the plunge and I want a flat top M-4 Carbine. My question is what kind of accuracy can I expect. I don't expect 1/2" groups at 100 yards, but I'd like to get better than the 4" groups I got with my Mini-14.

Question is this: Can those with experience rank the best to worst of the big producers. I can't afford a Colt, so exclude them please.

I'm leaning towards the Bushmaster or Olympic.

Any help is appreciated.

Bushmaster all the way, I wouldnt even consider an Oly

I'll say this, comparing an AR to your Mini14 is going to be an absolute joy for you.

I dont see any reason why you couldn't do 1" groups or better with good ammo.

Crpdeth

[Pistolenschutze]

Originally Posted by Crpdeth

Bushmaster all the way, I wouldnt even consider an Oly

I'll say this, comparing an AR to your Mini14 is going to be an absolute joy for you.

I dont see any reason why you couldn't do 1" groups or better with good ammo.

I concur, Donny. Bushmaster is by far the better weapon.

[bdfinst]

Avoid Colt. They are not mil-spec.

Bushmaster and Rock River Arms are tops. I have a BM lower with a RRA competition upper and trigger group. It shoots better than I can.

[DWARREN123]

Like all firearms some more so than others.

[berto64]

Anyone tried any DoubleStars for quality? I love the 1911A1 I got from them.

[Mark]

Watch this thread, this is going to get dicey!

Your original post doesn't really explain what you want to use this rifle for. With certain modifications, the AR 15 rifle is VERY accurate. Mini 14's, while fun, can't come close to the AR 15's potential.

FWIW, Colt and FN are the ONLY tier one suppliers to the US military for complete rifles. (Army, AF, Navy, USMC)

Colt is also the "Gold Standard" as far as reliability and quality for an out of the box rifle with no modifications. As everyone knows, they are pricey, and I don't think everyone needs a Colt for their purpose.

I wonder if AR 15 rifles aren't the hottest thing on the market right now. It seems like everyone has a story about good and bad AR's. All current manufacturers are having trouble making enough rifles to supply demand, and quality seems to be suffering.

45nut is going to have to sift through a lot of information from people defending their AR 15. Not all of these people are qualified to evaluate and appraise this type of rifle.
Mark

[Crpdeth]

Good post Mark

45Nut, let me add one thing here, the mag makes the AR...If you buy a sloppy, cheap mag for your rifle, there is very little chance that it will operate smoothly.

I may be preaching in the wrong direction here, but it is one area that is often over looked by new AR buyers.

Keep us updated!


Crpdeth

[pickenup]

Yup, Bushy rather than the Oly.
I've seen 5 shot groups that made a ragged hole.
Wish "I" could do that.

[Jay]

I have a RRA upper/lower with a Jewell trigger, and a Kreiger barrel, using a 6x18 mil-dot scope. The rifle will shoot dime-sized groups 8 out of 10 times at 100 yards.

As stated earlier, accuracy is up to each shooter to qualify. My definition may differ from yours........

"dime-sized" defined like this.....

[Mark]

That's not all you have, is it Jay?

I'd say you have a free float kit also, yes?

Mark

[Jay]

Mark,, although it was not an intentional omission, you're absolutely correct........ the barrel is free floated.

[Crpdeth]

....And perhaps 1.5 - 2.5k invested in upgrades after the inital cost of the AR Jay?


Crpdeth

[Jay]

Nope, the whole thing cost me $1400. An FFL friend of mine ordered all the parts for me, and I just put 'em together.

[Mark]

Jay, I'll believe $1400 without sights, otherwise I'm calling BS.
Mark

P.S. I don't want to start any kind of ruccus with you, I'm going through a build right now, and I am very tuned in to what things cost. I would also like to mention to 45nut that the accuracy you are getting is not unusual for a properly built AR. I will add very quickly that this accuracy is also the result of careful handloading, and terrific shooter technique.
Lotsa work, eh? Nice job Jay!

[Jay]

You can't buy an off-the-shelf AR-15 and shoot groups like the rifle I built up.

end of my contribution to this thread.

[Crpdeth]

Jay

After reading Marks post several times, I really dont think he meant any disrespect by what he said, lets not turn a good informational thread into something that I have to close before the author and aspiring new AR lover even gets to read it please.

Jay, you have to admit that you have a prize for that price and perhaps your friend gave you a phenomenal deal on some things, while Mark and I need to realize that the build may have been done 50 years ago, done by yourself (saving big bucks). Many, many things to consider here from the glass to the brass.

I think what we were trying to convey to this potential new buyer though, is that he should not expect to run out and buy a 850.00 dollar Bushy and expect to acheive 5 shot, 100 yrd, dime sized groups...And I believe this has been clearly presented.


Crpdeth

[Mark]

Jay, I absolutely meant NO disrespect.

The AR is capable of accuracy like you have achieved. I don't know of any off the shelf rifle that can give the results you are getting. This includes the $2500 custom makers. You have to do the homework.

You obviously have done a lot of work with this rifle, and my hat is off to you.
Mark

[sorral]

I am going to buy my first AR in a week or two. My friends (one a retired cop and gunsmith, the other an armorer for a local police agency,) have talked me out of an Olympic Arms, and now am looking at a DPMS panther.

They have also talked me out of the collapsable stock, and am going to stick with the A2 stock..

Going with a flat top, and am going to start with removeable rear sight....hoping to get a nice red dot for christmas or something...



any pros and cons about the advise I am following?

[300 H&H]

sorral, you won't go wrong! I have a very early HBAR sporter(colt was onstrike had to wait 4 months to get it) Now I wish it were a flat top as mounting a scope is much easier. Have put 3000 or so rounds through it a nd in ever way I am just as satified as I was the day I got 20 years ago. by the way it was just at $600 back then Happy shooting Kirk

[Prichard]

AR15 v. Mini-14

Out of the box, I'd agree a decent AR15 will be much more accurate than a mini-14.

However, when modified, both guns can be made to be very accurate, with no real difference between the two. The big difference is that it is easier to accruize the AR15 than the Mini-14. Accurizing the Mini-14 is costly and must be done by a competant gunsmith.

For those of you who don't believe me that a Mini-14 can't be made to be as accurate as an AR15, first look at the Accuracy Systems website and see what they can do with the Mini-14, then comment. You might then ask "why" spend that kind of money accurizing a Mini-14? In free states you probably wouldn't. In non-free states, the AR15 is not available to civilians. Also, don't forget about the full-auto "mini", it's brother the AC556. Some of us couldn't afford thousands of dollars more for a RR M16 and opted for an AC556, but can still afford to have certain reasonable mods done to it to make it a little more accurate in semi-auto.

[JD]

!X9 twist rate is for civilians, 1X7 is the real thang!

[Mark]

Why?
Mark

[sierra308]

I have an Olympic Arms A3 with a 20" heavy SS barrel,1/8 twist,free float hand guard and a match trigger.$800 from the local gun shop.So far no malfunctions and I shot a 10 shot 1/2" group at 100 yds from a rest using reloads.The 4.5-14 Tactical Leupold VX III sure helped though.So far I really like it.I also have a CMMG Upper 18" barrel 1/8 twist on a Stag Arms lower that shoots almost as well.It will not run some of the cheap surplus ammo,haven't had any problems with any U.S. made ammo.My Bushmaster M-4 will shoot sub moa with good reloads.

[sorral]

I just got done ordering all my parts for my M4. My buddy helped me narrow down my choices(he is the armorer). We ordered a panther flat top upper with a chromed barrel, 4 position collapsible stock, and a removable carry handle... and a single point sling.
Almost forgot the two 30 round mags.

should be here in a few days. can't wait to get it built!!!!