Another32 Iver Johnson's Arms and Cycle Works Revolver question

[Fishy Hunter]

Hello,

First time post...great site. My dad gave me a 5 shot IJ revolver.

Stamped on the barrel is "Iver Johnson Arms & Cycle Works Fitchburg Mass USA".

On the butt of the handle is stamped "Pat 16.96 AUG 25.96 EPT 16.04 Pats Pending".

Stamped on the bottom of the trigger guard is "33160".

Can anyone tell me what this is worth and the year the piece was manf? I don't plan on selling it but just more curious.

Also is ammo still available for 32 wheel wagon or do I have to use the half-moons (are they even available?) and use 32 auto ammo? Not that I would feel safe shooting this firearm.

I also have a 45 revolver I would like to post for history information.

Thanks much.
Fishy

[hrf]

To confirm model and year made, you must remove the grips: The serial number should be repeated on the left side of grip strap prefixed with a letter code. While grips are off, note if the mainspring is a flat or coil type.

Also, please DO NOT fire .32 Auto ammo in this gun, even though they are semi rimmed and will chamber, as they have far more pressure than the .32 S&W round this gun was designed for. It is also possible from the info you've listed that it was made before they were strengthened for smokeless powder in 1909.

Please start a new thread for your .45

[Fishy Hunter]

Originally Posted by hrf

To confirm model and year made, you must remove the grips: The serial number should be repeated on the left side of grip strap prefixed with a letter code. While grips are off, note if the mainspring is a flat or coil type.

The SN on the grip strip is prefixed with a letter "C 33160" and the main spring is a coil spring.

I hope this helps.

Thanks

[45Auto]

It's a 3rd model, made for .32 S&W smokless ammo. But not made for .32 automatic, which is far too powerfull for this revolver.

[hrf]

Fishy, are you sure the C isn't a G? The C prefix was used only on the large frame .38

If the sn is G3360, it was made in early 1915.

[Fishy Hunter]

Originally Posted by hrf

Fishy, are you sure the C isn't a G? The C prefix was used only on the large frame .38

If the sn is G3360, it was made in early 1915.

Ok This is a L-frame .38 cal

SN: C33160.

I assumed this was a .32 as a box of Winchester .32 was in the same box.

What is something like this worth and when was it made?

Can this handgun take a standard .38 (revolver) ammo?

Thanks

[hrf]

Originally Posted by Fishy Hunter

Ok This is a L-frame .38 cal

SN: C33160.

I assumed this was a .32 as a box of Winchester .32 was in the same box.

What is something like this worth and when was it made?

Can this handgun take a standard .38 (revolver) ammo?

Thanks

Made 1910. Uses the .38 S&W cartridge (NOT interchangeable with .38 Special cartridge)

[Fishy Hunter]

Originally Posted by hrf

Made 1909. Uses the .38 S&W cartridge (NOT interchangeable with .38 Special cartridge)

HRF...Thank you for the prompt reply! I'll note the ammo ( I assume .38 S&W cart are still available?)


Does anyone know what this IJ is worth or is it worth keeping?

Thanks

[fuzebox40]

Fiishy Hunter, if you care to look back at this old post you may find it useful to your last question. Specificly the entries from b.goforth. It's currently on page 69.

( Iver Johnson Arms &......top break revolver
fuzebox40 04-01-2010 03:17 AM
by fuzebox40 7 514 )

[Fishy Hunter]

Originally Posted by fuzebox40

Fiishy Hunter, if you care to look back at this old post you may find it useful to your last question. Specificly the entries from b.goforth. It's currently on page 69.

( Iver Johnson Arms &......top break revolver
fuzebox40 04-01-2010 03:17 AM
by fuzebox40 7 514 )

Thanks!!

[bellyacres]

Another question about an Iver Johnson. I have an hammerless pistol, stamped on the trigger guard is the #295 after removing the left grip R 295 is visible. On the grip the owl faces the trigger guard, and the main trigger spring is flat. It is 5 shot and of unknown calliber. With the patent date June 16 96 august 25 96 on the grip butt, the saftey is in the trigger guard. condition is poor with chip on grip and fireing pin missing. very little rust, very little bluing still visible. Would like to know value. Thank you.

[fuzebox40]

Originally Posted by bellyacres

Another question about an Iver Johnson. I have an hammerless pistol, stamped on the trigger guard is the #295 after removing the left grip R 295 is visible. On the grip the owl faces the trigger guard, and the main trigger spring is flat. It is 5 shot and of unknown calliber. With the patent date June 16 96 august 25 96 on the grip butt, the saftey is in the trigger guard. condition is poor with chip on grip and fireing pin missing. very little rust, very little bluing still visible. Would like to know value. Thank you.

Serial number R295 and said pat dates indicate (Safety Hammerless Automatic Revolver Second Model), tenth variation, manufactured in 1906. The caliber would be a .38 s&w "black powder cartridge". (The second model was designed for black powder only and "not safe" for use with modern smokeless powder cartridges). I don't have a book of values on these. I can tell you that I have simular pieces in hammer and hammerles, newer and older, and the qoutes I've received have all been close, from $100 - $300 within 60 - 100%.
If the spring your referring to is the one behind the grips, it's not the trigger spring, just main spring or hammer spring. You can still find parts for some of these. I have repaired many of the grips with a dry "bondo like" all purpose filler that you can buy at hardware stores. You just slice a piece off, mix it with your fingrs and it gets hard in about 5 minutes.
Bill Goforth wrote the book on these and if interested you can get it (Iver Johnson Arms & Cycle Works 1871-1993) at www.gunshowbooks.com.
Hope that helps.

[birddogo1e]

Just purchased an IJ, 5-shot, 32 S&W, 4" barrel, Safety Automatic Hammerless Revolver SN B464XX (left butt strap). The SN on the trigger guard consists of only the 5 numbers and is proceeded and followed by a star.
Believe this is 3rd model as it has coil hammer spring, four thru-pins, and oversize black rubber grips. The markings on the barrel rib are: (top) "Iver Johnsons Arms & Cycle Works" second line: "Fitchburg.Mass.USA". Naturally Quote marks are not on gun but periods within the stampings are. On the bottom of the Butt there is again a two-line entry;
Top: "AT August 25 96"
Bottom: "AT.S Pending"
There is no stamped "P" at the beginning of either line. The grips completely cover this area and there isn't any wear whatsoever. The Ps are not worn off, they were never there. The gun retains about 70-75% blueing and I would estimate overall appearance as pretty to very good. Some holster rash beginning about halfway down the barrel and wear around the cylindar from the lockup thingy. Rifling is bright and sharp as are the cylindar chambers. No pitting in either the bore or chambers. The action is tight and cylindar lockup is very good. Shouldn't be much if any lead shaving. The owls are looking straight down the grips which I doubt have ever been removed. It looks like the pistol has been well cared for. Can the pistol be verified as a 3rd model, when was it made, and is there any significance attached to stampings on the weapon?

[hrf]

You are correct, a third model made in 1911.

The only significance to the patent markings are that the curvature of butt caused incomplete stamping of the P. The example shown in book has only the curved part of the P visible.

[birddogo1e]

HRF;

Thanks for the quick response. This just became my oldest gun. Can't hardly believe it is 101 yrs old. I will be shooting it some as the guy threw in a new box of Rem 32 S&W (Short) ammo. I have some 32 S&W Long that I might try moding. Pull the bullets, dump the powder, cut hull to "short" specs, reload using load data for 32 Short. The only investments I would have are time and powder. Beats $37 a box, which is what you can expect in this area if it can be found. Am retired and reloading fills in the time between Honey Dooz.

Jim (Geezer) T in Dayton

[birddogo1e]

HRF;

Guess what? Went to the Dayton Gun Show today and found another 3rd Model similar to the one described above. Differences are it has a 3" barrel, small grips (chipped), and the SN is I16XXX. It looks like it was originally nickle plated, all of which has been removed and semi-polished. If so, the work was well done. No gouges, scratches or uneven/wavy buffing. Lands and grouves are sharp but there are some dark spots in the bore but no pitting. Additionally, the star on the extracter is bunged a little for one chamber which will lock up the cylindar if starting with that chamber. Start with any other and five good clicks. Cylindar seems to lock up good, at least as good as the 1911. Questions are when made, guess late teens/early 20's, and can good replacement grips and a new/good used extractor be found anywhere? This pistol is well worth putting in good shooting and cosmetic condition if possible as long as it doesn't take an arm and a leg. I know it is not a collectors piece but I take care of my weapons and like them to look and function properly. Appreciate any info you can pass along.

Jim (Geezer) T in Dayton

[hrf]

Originally Posted by birddogo1e

HRF;

Guess what? Went to the Dayton Gun Show today and found another 3rd Model similar to the one described above. Differences are it has a 3" barrel, small grips (chipped), and the SN is I16XXX. It looks like it was originally nickle plated, all of which has been removed and semi-polished. If so, the work was well done. No gouges, scratches or uneven/wavy buffing. Lands and grouves are sharp but there are some dark spots in the bore but no pitting. Additionally, the star on the extracter is bunged a little for one chamber which will lock up the cylindar if starting with that chamber. Start with any other and five good clicks. Cylindar seems to lock up good, at least as good as the 1911. Questions are when made, guess late teens/early 20's, and can good replacement grips and a new/good used extractor be found anywhere? This pistol is well worth putting in good shooting and cosmetic condition if possible as long as it doesn't take an arm and a leg. I know it is not a collectors piece but I take care of my weapons and like them to look and function properly. Appreciate any info you can pass along.

Jim (Geezer) T in Dayton

Ten years later than the other, made 1921.

Repro grips are available, but another extractor will be tough to find. A good gunsmith might be able to peen or build up the damaged one.

[birddogo1e]

HRF:
Thanks again for the quick response. Worked on the extractor star last night and it now cycles all 5 chambers without any lockup. Found a couple places for the grips (Navy Arms, and a gun dealer in Avon, OH. Not looking to get another IJ, that is unless its a nice top break 22lr at a reasonable price. I'll give you some rest for awhile.

Thanks agin

Jim (Geezer) T in Dayton

[birddogo1e]

HRF:

Numrich Arms not Navy. Took it to the range. Two 5 shot loads = 10 bangs. Happy. happy!

Smilin Geezer in Dayton

[3/2 STA SS]

I have .32 S&W ammo for that revolver if you are interested...PM me.