1858 Remington - The Firearms Forum

Radioman909 · 03-24-2011, 06:39 PM

I've pretty much decided for my first Black Powder pistol on the 1858 Remington Steel Sherrif model, but in what caliber? .36 or .44? The .36 is in a 6-1/2 in barrel and the .44 comes with only the 5-1/2 barrel.

remington1990 · 03-24-2011, 08:52 PM

I just order a remington army from cabelas today I got it in 44 in my opinion its better but that my opinion but ain't nothing wrong with the 36 either its is what ever you like

Hawg · 03-24-2011, 11:10 PM

FWIW the .36 is the Navy model and the .44 is the Army model. Historically there never was a sheriffs model. The Army had an 8 inch barrel and the Navy had a 7 1/2 inch barrel.

johnboat · 03-24-2011, 11:35 PM

it is my humble opinion that 44 is definatly the way to go as it has much higher power and powder capacity , futher more if they offer it in stainless that would be my personal preferance as it will likly hold a better long term value and is waaaay esier to clean ,these are exceptionally fun to shoot and i also recomend perhaps adding at least one or two spare cylinders and later if you prefer you can also improve by adding a conversion to fire metallic cartriges but to me the black powder is way more fun in this type of weapon.

Hawg · 03-25-2011, 06:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnboat

futher more if they offer it in stainless that would be my personal preferance as it will likly hold a better long term value and is waaaay esier to clean

They clean the same. It isn't like cleaning smokeless.

johnboat · 03-25-2011, 09:10 AM

well hawg i respectivly beg to differ , that is if you want them looking very clean w/o say scratching the bluing ect , but that s not why i got back on here , the reason i got back here was to let you know that there is a real nice 1858 target model for sale on the buy sell trade portion on this site it is a nice set i realize it is a bit longer than you prefer but gun smiths can work a bit of majic and presto you would have sorta a custom for mayb the same $$,

Hawg · 03-25-2011, 10:54 AM

How does soapy water and patches scratch?

tyc · 03-25-2011, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by johnboat

"... that 44 is definatly the way to go ... exceptionally fun to shoot and i also recomend perhaps adding at least one or two spare cylinders and later if you prefer you can also improve by adding a conversion to fire metallic cartriges but to me the black powder is way more fun in this type of weapon.

For what it may be worth, I agree, a 44 caliber is the way to go but I differ with regard to preference to a stainless steel varient. On this end I like it to be close to authentic, to my way of thinking this makes it just that much more "... fun to shoot."

If you haven't already, you might want to start looking into a holster and belt to go with the pistol. There's a proverbial ton of individuals/companies out there offering as experience has shown me, some very good quality "leather" or "rigs" to go with what ever pistol you finally decide on.

Best of luck! Let us know how you make out.

tyc

redwing carson · 03-25-2011, 11:32 AM

The Remmy is a fine hand gun. I must say the Rogers & Spencer is much better. IMHO.

Good Luck

RC

tyc · 03-26-2011, 09:36 AM

[QUOTE The Remmy is a fine hand gun. I must say the Rogers & Spencer is much better. IMHO.

RC[/QUOTE]

I make no claim to being an "expert" when it comes to BP, so I have to ask, what's so much better about a Rogers & Spencer as opposed to, say a Uberti Remington?

tyc

redwing carson · 03-26-2011, 01:11 PM

The R&S was the last of the Perc. Revolvers Civil War. They were too late for much use in that conflict. They had all the improvements needed in a Perc. handgun. The cylinder is easy to remove, gas escape area to keep cylinder from sticking after repeated use. It is chambered for a .457 bullet or ball, the chamber mouths are chamfered for ease of loading. The large chambers hold more powder than an 1860 Army. The nipples are angeled for placing a cap with more ease. Loading lever comes apart with no screws. Ruger engineers used the R&S to make the ROA. The ROA is an R&S with a Colt grip for the most part. The gun pictured is a target Mdl. never made back in the day. This target was shot at 25 yards from a bench sand bag rest. I have an issue Mdl. which also shoots very good.Good Luck

RC

Gatofeo · 03-26-2011, 09:14 PM

I would go with the .44 caliber, only because the preferred oversized balls of .454 and .457 inch are easier to find.
I shoot both calibers. In my .36 revolvers I use a .380 inch ball.
For decades, it was suggested in manuals, books and articles -- and still is in some publications -- that shooters use .451 inch balls in the .44, and .375 inch in the .36 caliber.
The Ruger Old Army requires balls at least .457 inch, and always has.
However, in the early 1980s I began using the slightly larger balls. By doing so, a wider bearing band ("gripping area") is created around the edges of the ball, when seated.
This wider bearing band keeps the ball from moving under recoil of the other fired chambers, and provides a better seal (obturation) and wider area for the rifling to grip than the smaller ball sizes.
The slightly larger balls require a little more pressure to seat in the chamber, using the revolver's rammer, but the amount is not much. Certainly not enough to threaten damage to the rammer of a well made revolver.
Balls of .454 and .457 inch are easily found on shelves, while finding balls of .378 or .380 inch almost always have to be ordered and are not easily found.
As for accuracy, both calibers can be very accurate in a well made revolver. My Uberti-made 1858 Remington .44, with its fixed sights, will put six balls into a 1-1/2 inch circle at a measured 25 yards (none of that pacing-off stuff for me) from a benchrest. My Colt 2nd generation 1851 Navy will equal that sometimes, more commonly putting its six balls into a 2-inch circle.
The difference is due to the less definitive sights on the Colt, and my 56-year-old eyes.
Either capability is plenty good for knocking off cans, the occasional rabbit and putting holes in paper.
If you can afford it, I suggest a stainless steel Remington .44 revolver. Newcomers are almost always negligent about cleaning their revolver right after firing; stainless steel will buy them some time to do so.
However, even stainless steel will rust and pit over time.
Some stainless steel Remingtons have a high polish, making them appear as nickel rather than the brushed satin of typical stainless steel. For authenticity's appearance, this works.
And, of course, you can also get some of the Remingtons with modern, adjustable sights.
Myself, I prefer the feel and pointing ability of the Colt design. But for the beginner, a stainless steel Remington .44 is a very good introductory piece.
Purchase a fishing box, the kind with at least two levels of drawers that rise up as you lift the lid, to keep your accessories in. Buy one larger than you think you'll need, because you'll find yourself filling it easily enough. The extra room is welcome.
For detailed instructions on the care and feeding of cap and ball revolvers, search the internet under my nom de net of Gatofeo. Look for postings entitled, "So You Want a Cap and Ball Revolver?" or "Proper Use of Cap and Ball Revolvers." Either are voluminous and contain the same information. You'll want to print them out for frequent referral.
Welcome to an intriguing, fun hobby!

Pustic · 03-26-2011, 10:12 PM

Get the New Army .44 with the 8 inch barrel. It's more accurate and you can convert it to a .45 by changing the cylinder. If you want to convert, then get a steel frame.

tyc · 03-27-2011, 10:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by redwing carson

... The cylinder is easy to remove, gas escape area to keep cylinder from sticking after repeated use. It is chambered for a .457 bullet or ball, the chamber mouths are chamfered for ease of loading. The large chambers hold more powder than an 1860 Army. The nipples are angeled for placing a cap with more ease. Loading lever comes apart with no screws. Ruger engineers used the R&S to make the ROA. The ROA is an R&S with a Colt grip for the most part. The gun pictured is a target Mdl. never made back in the day. This target was shot at 25 yards from a bench sand bag rest. I have an issue Mdl. which also shoots very good.Good Luck

RC

The "grouping" was noted! :-)

Nice!

tyc

redwing carson · 03-27-2011, 09:19 PM

This was fired during a state match site in procedure. The shooting was done before a Certified RO on a 25 yard official range. These were round ball loads and Swiss 3F powder. The world shooting teams use the R&S made by DP&S which sells for $1,200 U.S. The Rogers & Spencer design is often chosen by serious B\P handgun shooters. I prefer the ROA LEE .456 220gr.a 10 to 1 alloy conical lubed and sized to .456 with SPG for field shooting. The revolver pictured is the less expensive Euro-Arms version.Good Luck

RC

scrat · 03-28-2011, 10:45 PM

.44 In fact all of mine are .44 even the 1851's yes i know they are not historically correct. i was at the range about a year ago. This old guy comes up to the range with an 1858 Navy. All he has is a can of Goex, some round balls and the caps. any how i start to talk with him. I asked him how he was going to load it. Then he goes and runs back to his car and comes back with a powder measure. i started to think this should be interesting. He then tells me how his takes 15 grains of powder as im loading i think my WALKER at the time loading it up with GOEX 55 grains. He is spilling powder all over the place then i give him a funnel to use. Any how he loads up his 15 grains and then presses in his round balls then goes up to the firing line. After we cap them off he begins to aim and shoot. Wearing ear plugs the only way i knew he was shooting was seeing the smoke. So any how i start to shoot he immediately stopped in his tracks until i was done. He then fired off the remaining rounds. We then went to the back to reload. He started to ask me a bunch of questions about accuracy and loading i got him up to around 20 grains which seemed to be a good load for that Navy. Later on i started to tell him what all he would need to shoot ie a flask and some more tools and accessories. He was telling me how his books told him to shoot between 10-15 grains. i took a look at his gun. You would be a darn fool to shoot 10 grains i told him. At that load when you pressed the ball it would probably not even meet the powder. This would make the ball an obstruction rather than a projectile. any how little long winded. However i still prefer the .44 seeing him shoot that Navy was like watching someone shooting a .22 short revolver.

03-24-2011, 06:39 PM	#1
Radioman909 Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Left Coast of America Posts: 31	1858 Remington I've pretty much decided for my first Black Powder pistol on the 1858 Remington Steel Sherrif model, but in what caliber? .36 or .44? The .36 is in a 6-1/2 in barrel and the .44 comes with only the 5-1/2 barrel. __________________ Don't hold it against me that I am from California, just remember it could happen in your state to! -->

03-24-2011, 08:52 PM	#2
remington1990 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 290	Re: 1858 Remington I just order a remington army from cabelas today I got it in 44 in my opinion its better but that my opinion but ain't nothing wrong with the 36 either its is what ever you like

03-24-2011, 11:10 PM	#3
Hawg Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,559	Re: 1858 Remington FWIW the .36 is the Navy model and the .44 is the Army model. Historically there never was a sheriffs model. The Army had an 8 inch barrel and the Navy had a 7 1/2 inch barrel.

03-24-2011, 11:35 PM	#4
johnboat V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 96	Re: 1858 Remington it is my humble opinion that 44 is definatly the way to go as it has much higher power and powder capacity , futher more if they offer it in stainless that would be my personal preferance as it will likly hold a better long term value and is waaaay esier to clean ,these are exceptionally fun to shoot and i also recomend perhaps adding at least one or two spare cylinders and later if you prefer you can also improve by adding a conversion to fire metallic cartriges but to me the black powder is way more fun in this type of weapon.

03-25-2011, 09:10 AM	#6
johnboat V.I.P. Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 96	Re: 1858 Remington well hawg i respectivly beg to differ , that is if you want them looking very clean w/o say scratching the bluing ect , but that s not why i got back on here , the reason i got back here was to let you know that there is a real nice 1858 target model for sale on the buy sell trade portion on this site it is a nice set i realize it is a bit longer than you prefer but gun smiths can work a bit of majic and presto you would have sorta a custom for mayb the same $$,

03-25-2011, 10:54 AM	#7
Hawg Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,559	Re: 1858 Remington How does soapy water and patches scratch?

03-25-2011, 11:32 AM	#9
redwing carson Former Guest Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: western wyoming Posts: 734	Re: 1858 Remington The Remmy is a fine hand gun. I must say the Rogers & Spencer is much better. IMHO.Good Luck RC

03-26-2011, 09:36 AM	#10
tyc V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 129	Re: 1858 Remington [QUOTE The Remmy is a fine hand gun. I must say the Rogers & Spencer is much better. IMHO. RC[/QUOTE] I make no claim to being an "expert" when it comes to BP, so I have to ask, what's so much better about a Rogers & Spencer as opposed to, say a Uberti Remington? tyc

03-26-2011, 01:11 PM	#11
redwing carson Former Guest Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: western wyoming Posts: 734	Re: 1858 Remington The R&S was the last of the Perc. Revolvers Civil War. They were too late for much use in that conflict. They had all the improvements needed in a Perc. handgun. The cylinder is easy to remove, gas escape area to keep cylinder from sticking after repeated use. It is chambered for a .457 bullet or ball, the chamber mouths are chamfered for ease of loading. The large chambers hold more powder than an 1860 Army. The nipples are angeled for placing a cap with more ease. Loading lever comes apart with no screws. Ruger engineers used the R&S to make the ROA. The ROA is an R&S with a Colt grip for the most part. The gun pictured is a target Mdl. never made back in the day. This target was shot at 25 yards from a bench sand bag rest. I have an issue Mdl. which also shoots very good.Good Luck RC Last edited by redwing carson; 03-26-2011 at 01:12 PM..

03-26-2011, 09:14 PM	#12
Gatofeo V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: Remote Utah desert, separated from Oblivion by a screen door. Posts: 84	Re: 1858 Remington I would go with the .44 caliber, only because the preferred oversized balls of .454 and .457 inch are easier to find. I shoot both calibers. In my .36 revolvers I use a .380 inch ball. For decades, it was suggested in manuals, books and articles -- and still is in some publications -- that shooters use .451 inch balls in the .44, and .375 inch in the .36 caliber. The Ruger Old Army requires balls at least .457 inch, and always has. However, in the early 1980s I began using the slightly larger balls. By doing so, a wider bearing band ("gripping area") is created around the edges of the ball, when seated. This wider bearing band keeps the ball from moving under recoil of the other fired chambers, and provides a better seal (obturation) and wider area for the rifling to grip than the smaller ball sizes. The slightly larger balls require a little more pressure to seat in the chamber, using the revolver's rammer, but the amount is not much. Certainly not enough to threaten damage to the rammer of a well made revolver. Balls of .454 and .457 inch are easily found on shelves, while finding balls of .378 or .380 inch almost always have to be ordered and are not easily found. As for accuracy, both calibers can be very accurate in a well made revolver. My Uberti-made 1858 Remington .44, with its fixed sights, will put six balls into a 1-1/2 inch circle at a measured 25 yards (none of that pacing-off stuff for me) from a benchrest. My Colt 2nd generation 1851 Navy will equal that sometimes, more commonly putting its six balls into a 2-inch circle. The difference is due to the less definitive sights on the Colt, and my 56-year-old eyes. Either capability is plenty good for knocking off cans, the occasional rabbit and putting holes in paper. If you can afford it, I suggest a stainless steel Remington .44 revolver. Newcomers are almost always negligent about cleaning their revolver right after firing; stainless steel will buy them some time to do so. However, even stainless steel will rust and pit over time. Some stainless steel Remingtons have a high polish, making them appear as nickel rather than the brushed satin of typical stainless steel. For authenticity's appearance, this works. And, of course, you can also get some of the Remingtons with modern, adjustable sights. Myself, I prefer the feel and pointing ability of the Colt design. But for the beginner, a stainless steel Remington .44 is a very good introductory piece. Purchase a fishing box, the kind with at least two levels of drawers that rise up as you lift the lid, to keep your accessories in. Buy one larger than you think you'll need, because you'll find yourself filling it easily enough. The extra room is welcome. For detailed instructions on the care and feeding of cap and ball revolvers, search the internet under my nom de net of Gatofeo. Look for postings entitled, "So You Want a Cap and Ball Revolver?" or "Proper Use of Cap and Ball Revolvers." Either are voluminous and contain the same information. You'll want to print them out for frequent referral. Welcome to an intriguing, fun hobby! __________________ "Therein do I see an ugly cat. Smoke. Fire. Brimstone. A vast desert. Holes in parchment. The ugly cat is much amused." --- The quantrains of Gatodamus (1503-1566)

03-26-2011, 10:12 PM	#13
Pustic V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Western Kentucky Posts: 149	Re: 1858 Remington Get the New Army .44 with the 8 inch barrel. It's more accurate and you can convert it to a .45 by changing the cylinder. If you want to convert, then get a steel frame. Attached Images __________________ No matter what they say or do, I will never surrender my guns. Am I paranoid? Nope, I'm heavily armed. Last edited by Pustic; 04-09-2011 at 01:49 AM..

03-27-2011, 09:19 PM	#15
redwing carson Former Guest Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: western wyoming Posts: 734	Re: 1858 Remington This was fired during a state match site in procedure. The shooting was done before a Certified RO on a 25 yard official range. These were round ball loads and Swiss 3F powder. The world shooting teams use the R&S made by DP&S which sells for $1,200 U.S. The Rogers & Spencer design is often chosen by serious B\P handgun shooters. I prefer the ROA LEE .456 220gr.a 10 to 1 alloy conical lubed and sized to .456 with SPG for field shooting. The revolver pictured is the less expensive Euro-Arms version.Good Luck RC Last edited by redwing carson; 03-27-2011 at 09:21 PM..

03-28-2011, 10:45 PM	#16
scrat V.I.P. Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 86	Re: 1858 Remington .44 In fact all of mine are .44 even the 1851's yes i know they are not historically correct. i was at the range about a year ago. This old guy comes up to the range with an 1858 Navy. All he has is a can of Goex, some round balls and the caps. any how i start to talk with him. I asked him how he was going to load it. Then he goes and runs back to his car and comes back with a powder measure. i started to think this should be interesting. He then tells me how his takes 15 grains of powder as im loading i think my WALKER at the time loading it up with GOEX 55 grains. He is spilling powder all over the place then i give him a funnel to use. Any how he loads up his 15 grains and then presses in his round balls then goes up to the firing line. After we cap them off he begins to aim and shoot. Wearing ear plugs the only way i knew he was shooting was seeing the smoke. So any how i start to shoot he immediately stopped in his tracks until i was done. He then fired off the remaining rounds. We then went to the back to reload. He started to ask me a bunch of questions about accuracy and loading i got him up to around 20 grains which seemed to be a good load for that Navy. Later on i started to tell him what all he would need to shoot ie a flask and some more tools and accessories. He was telling me how his books told him to shoot between 10-15 grains. i took a look at his gun. You would be a darn fool to shoot 10 grains i told him. At that load when you pressed the ball it would probably not even meet the powder. This would make the ball an obstruction rather than a projectile. any how little long winded. However i still prefer the .44 seeing him shoot that Navy was like watching someone shooting a .22 short revolver.