Setting up a NFA trust with Willmaker? - The Firearms Forum

keepitlow · 03-26-2011, 06:44 PM

Was told I can do the trust myself with Willmaker and not hire a lawyer.

Anyone try this method?

How did it work for you?

WABob · 03-27-2011, 09:12 PM

I did it, no problems at all. I just purchased the software, installed it and filled out the required info for an individual revocable trust. The software called is going to call it (your name) individual revocable trust. That is a long name to engrave on a homemade silencer, so I exported the document to MS Word and changed the name to WaBob NFA Trust.

You must have some property that the trust can own, so fill in schedule A to include something with a serial number. I used an old rifle; some people use a dollar bill or engrave a knife or other item. You can add and remove anything you want from schedule A at any time, except for controlled items like title 2 firearms. Only add or remove them when authorized by the ATF with an ATF form 1 or form 4.

You will be the trustee. You should designate someone you trust as a backup trustee and you also need to select a beneficiary. Someone also needs to be the grantor, that can be you also. After printing out the trust, schedule A and the assignment of property, get it notarized.

When sending in the trust to the ATF along with the tax stamp application, ensure you send a COPY of the entire trust and schedule A. Your new NFA firearm is not written into schedule A until you actually have the firearm in your possession.

It is a good idea to have a lawyer review it, but they might charge you the same price as having one made by them for you. I have heard of a few people having problems with a trust before or even after a tax stamp application as approved, but I have never heard of anyone losing a title 2 firearm because of a bad trust. But if the ATF ever tells you the trust is no good, your first step needs to be getting a lawyer.

keepitlow · 03-28-2011, 05:32 AM

Thanks for the detailed rundown.

Can you put any name you want for the trust? I did not want to use my name for privacy reasons.

Maybe a good thing to test the waters with is to make one of my AR's into a SBR? I can just register it in the trust after I have item number one in it. I'd hate to buy something and have the gov turn down the trust.

WABob · 03-28-2011, 10:13 AM

Any name you want as far as I know. One good thing about having your own name on it is that you can probably prove ownership of the firearm with the ATF form and an ID card. With another name, you will probably need to carry a copy of the trust with the ATF forms when traveling with the firearm.

It is probably a good idea to only have fireams in a trust used for ownership of NFA weapons.

InfiniteArms · 05-04-2011, 08:47 PM

WABob I am glad the program worked for you but i would STRONGLY advise people not to use Willmaker or similar programs. I am sure they make excellent trust but they know nothing about the requirements for a NFA trust.

For example most trust i have seen from lawyers who specialize in NFA trusts include language about what is to happen to the items upon the trustees death if the beneficiary is under the age of 18 or a felon and can not own NFA items.

There have been multiple occasions where the ATF has approved transfer to trusts (mostly from willmaker and similar) without reviewing them and upon subsequent transfers they actually read it and find it invalid. When this happens the trustee is given two options: 1) Surrender the items that were transferred to the invalid trust or 2) setup a new trust and transfer the items and pay the taxes again.

If you are going to have more then one or two NFA items spend some time searching for a lawyer who charges a responsible fee.

keepitlow · 05-05-2011, 07:20 AM

I contacted 5 lawyers. None wanted to do anything for me with a NFA trust.

InfiniteArms · 05-05-2011, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keepitlow

I contacted 5 lawyers. None wanted to do anything for me with a NFA trust.

I called 20+ lawyers and they either did not do trust, wanted nothing to do with guns or thought there time was to "valuable" to do an inexpensive trust. Try contacting your local class 3 dealer and see if they can refer you to a local lawyer.

hbucki · 05-13-2011, 08:06 PM

just got my mp44 used will maker. my agent was danna fickles at atf great guy very helpful. was talking with a lawyer at the last gun show he does wills and did not know that you could get a full auto with a trust

zonie77 · 06-04-2011, 11:46 PM

In AZ there are several gun dealers that do trusts. They charge around $100.

There are also forums that have info on setting up trust. I lost many bookmarks so I can't give you a link but do a web search.

skyfire1 · 10-28-2011, 08:30 PM

I wish I could find one in my area that does them and doesn't charge an arm and a leg.

medalguy · 10-28-2011, 09:36 PM

I spoke to my long-time attorney and he did not know anything about NFA trusts but admitted he had had several inquiries about them from other clients. I found a good experienced attorney who knew all about them. Ask at some of your local gun shops who handle Title II weapons.

medalguy · 10-28-2011, 09:37 PM

Zonie77, with all due respect, a gun dealer writing trusts is practicing law without a license. NO WAY I would use them.

03-26-2011, 06:44 PM	#1
keepitlow V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: US Posts: 164	Setting up a NFA trust with Willmaker? Was told I can do the trust myself with Willmaker and not hire a lawyer. Anyone try this method? How did it work for you? -->

03-27-2011, 09:12 PM	#2
WABob Former Guest Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: WA USA Posts: 81	Re: Setting up a NFA trust with Willmaker? I did it, no problems at all. I just purchased the software, installed it and filled out the required info for an individual revocable trust. The software called is going to call it (your name) individual revocable trust. That is a long name to engrave on a homemade silencer, so I exported the document to MS Word and changed the name to WaBob NFA Trust. You must have some property that the trust can own, so fill in schedule A to include something with a serial number. I used an old rifle; some people use a dollar bill or engrave a knife or other item. You can add and remove anything you want from schedule A at any time, except for controlled items like title 2 firearms. Only add or remove them when authorized by the ATF with an ATF form 1 or form 4. You will be the trustee. You should designate someone you trust as a backup trustee and you also need to select a beneficiary. Someone also needs to be the grantor, that can be you also. After printing out the trust, schedule A and the assignment of property, get it notarized. When sending in the trust to the ATF along with the tax stamp application, ensure you send a COPY of the entire trust and schedule A. Your new NFA firearm is not written into schedule A until you actually have the firearm in your possession. It is a good idea to have a lawyer review it, but they might charge you the same price as having one made by them for you. I have heard of a few people having problems with a trust before or even after a tax stamp application as approved, but I have never heard of anyone losing a title 2 firearm because of a bad trust. But if the ATF ever tells you the trust is no good, your first step needs to be getting a lawyer.

03-28-2011, 05:32 AM	#3
keepitlow V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: US Posts: 164	Re: Setting up a NFA trust with Willmaker? Thanks for the detailed rundown. Can you put any name you want for the trust? I did not want to use my name for privacy reasons. Maybe a good thing to test the waters with is to make one of my AR's into a SBR? I can just register it in the trust after I have item number one in it. I'd hate to buy something and have the gov turn down the trust. Last edited by keepitlow; 03-28-2011 at 05:33 AM..

03-28-2011, 10:13 AM	#4
WABob Former Guest Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: WA USA Posts: 81	Re: Setting up a NFA trust with Willmaker? Any name you want as far as I know. One good thing about having your own name on it is that you can probably prove ownership of the firearm with the ATF form and an ID card. With another name, you will probably need to carry a copy of the trust with the ATF forms when traveling with the firearm. It is probably a good idea to only have fireams in a trust used for ownership of NFA weapons.

05-04-2011, 08:47 PM	#5
InfiniteArms V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: NV Posts: 51	Re: Setting up a NFA trust with Willmaker? WABob I am glad the program worked for you but i would STRONGLY advise people not to use Willmaker or similar programs. I am sure they make excellent trust but they know nothing about the requirements for a NFA trust. For example most trust i have seen from lawyers who specialize in NFA trusts include language about what is to happen to the items upon the trustees death if the beneficiary is under the age of 18 or a felon and can not own NFA items. There have been multiple occasions where the ATF has approved transfer to trusts (mostly from willmaker and similar) without reviewing them and upon subsequent transfers they actually read it and find it invalid. When this happens the trustee is given two options: 1) Surrender the items that were transferred to the invalid trust or 2) setup a new trust and transfer the items and pay the taxes again. If you are going to have more then one or two NFA items spend some time searching for a lawyer who charges a responsible fee.

05-05-2011, 07:20 AM	#6
keepitlow V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: US Posts: 164	Re: Setting up a NFA trust with Willmaker? I contacted 5 lawyers. None wanted to do anything for me with a NFA trust.

05-13-2011, 08:06 PM	#8
hbucki Member Join Date: Dec 2007 Posts: 9	Re: Setting up a NFA trust with Willmaker? just got my mp44 used will maker. my agent was danna fickles at atf great guy very helpful. was talking with a lawyer at the last gun show he does wills and did not know that you could get a full auto with a trust

06-04-2011, 11:46 PM	#9
zonie77 Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 3	Re: Setting up a NFA trust with Willmaker? In AZ there are several gun dealers that do trusts. They charge around $100. There are also forums that have info on setting up trust. I lost many bookmarks so I can't give you a link but do a web search.

10-28-2011, 08:30 PM	#10
skyfire1 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: South Florida Posts: 66	Re: Setting up a NFA trust with Willmaker? I wish I could find one in my area that does them and doesn't charge an arm and a leg.

10-28-2011, 09:36 PM	#11
medalguy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 585	Re: Setting up a NFA trust with Willmaker? I spoke to my long-time attorney and he did not know anything about NFA trusts but admitted he had had several inquiries about them from other clients. I found a good experienced attorney who knew all about them. Ask at some of your local gun shops who handle Title II weapons.

10-28-2011, 09:37 PM	#12
medalguy Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Posts: 585	Re: Setting up a NFA trust with Willmaker? Zonie77, with all due respect, a gun dealer writing trusts is practicing law without a license. NO WAY I would use them.