Snubby-.38 spl.+P or .357 for SD?

[Python]

I would like to know which round would be most effective for personal defense from a 2" snubby between the Gold Dot .38 spl. 135gr. +P "short barrel" round and a 158gr..357 round. I'm aware that shot placement is most important as well as the ability to recover from muzzle flip & recoil to stay on target. Because your life depends on it, which round would you choose, and why? To be specific as to my choice of .357 magnum here, it is the Blazer aluminum round. I chose the Blazer round because it seems to be loaded to less pressure making it "easy to control" when fired from my M60 S&W. Thanks.

[Bill DeShivs]

Of the two, I would choose the .38 special Gold Dot.
But mid range wadcutters would probably be as good or better than either of your choices.

[easyflow]

I would prefer 38+p I have been recommended hornady.Ive read many things about .357 that even with hollow points it could possibly keep going straight thru causing unwanted backdrop tragically.

[wvugunnut]

38+p gold dot is the way to go in my opinion. I own a snub nose like yours and while .357 may be a touch better on the ballistics charts in real world sd you want the bullet to stop on/in target.

[carver]

As a carry gun, I would choose the .38. As a home defense gun, I would choose the.38 again. You mentioned recoil as a factor, and the .357 has it in spades. Add to this problem, the fact that the .357 is known for it's ability to over penitrate. Now fire up that snubie .357 in a dark room! The mussle flash will leave you blind for more time than you want in a SD situation!

[Python]

Originally Posted by carver

As a carry gun, I would choose the .38. As a home defense gun, I would choose the.38 again. You mentioned recoil as a factor, and the .357 has it in spades. Add to this problem, the fact that the .357 is known for it's ability to over penitrate. Now fire up that snubie .357 in a dark room! The mussle flash will leave you blind for more time than you want in a SD situation!

I agree that for home defense that the .38 GDHP is best due to the fact most conditions would occur at night time and within closed walls. Both the muzzle flash & deafening sound of the .357 would be a negative. As for the .357 Blazer aluminum round, like I said, it is loaded to lower pressure very close to that of a +P. Although the Blazer is still more powerful than a +P, the recoil is very controllable fired from a snubby. Over penetration of HP .357 ammo is extremely rare, even more so when fired from a snubby. Even if one did pass through the body of a BG, I seriously doubt that it would have enough energy left to penetrate and harm anyone else. I feel confident loading the .357 Blazer 158gr. HP in my snubby for PD, even in "public places". On a personal note, HP ammo (stopping power) is for up close & personal situations and public places only. Any situation other than home defense or up close and personal defense in public places, all of my rifles and revolvers are loaded with 158gr. JSP.

[CampingJosh]

I'd also vote for the .38 +p.

Although when I carried a .38 Special, I actually went with the reduced recoil Federal Hydrashoks.

[jbmid1]

I'm quickly becoming a big fan of the .357 round. If my life depended on it I would go with the best chance of a first round kill. With practice, your follow-ups will still be within
fractions of a second of the less powerful round. And if you have a large opponent, or one supplented with chemicals, or wearing protection of any kind, they will laugh off the first couple of .38 shots.

[NGIB]

I actually made this decision a few months back. I have a pair of Ruger SP101s and I was testing ammo between .38 +P and various .357 loads. I found the .357 Blazer aluminum to be a very controllable load, hardly more difficult to shoot than a .38 +P. As I prefer heavier bullets, I chose this load as the standard defensive fodder for both Rugers. It doesn't hurt that it's cheap and widely available either. I buy quite a bit of ammo from these folks - good prices, reasonable shipping, and great service...

http://palmettostatearmory.com/1317.php

[Python]

Originally Posted by jbmid1

I'm quickly becoming a big fan of the .357 round. If my life depended on it I would go with the best chance of a first round kill. With practice, your follow-ups will still be within
fractions of a second of the less powerful round. And if you have a large opponent, or one supplented with chemicals, or wearing protection of any kind, they will laugh off the first couple of .38 shots.

Good points.

[Python]

Originally Posted by NGIB

I actually made this decision a few months back. I have a pair of Ruger SP101s and I was testing ammo between .38 +P and various .357 loads. I found the .357 Blazer aluminum to be a very controllable load, hardly more difficult to shoot than a .38 +P. As I prefer heavier bullets, I chose this load as the standard defensive fodder for both Rugers. It doesn't hurt that it's cheap and widely available either. I buy quite a bit of ammo from these folks - good prices, reasonable shipping, and great service...

http://palmettostatearmory.com/1317.php

That's what I'm talking about.

[Python]

I've heard that there is no difference in the velocity/performance of the GDHP 135gr. .38spl. +P Short Barrel round whether fired from a 2" or a 4" revolver. Can anyone confirm this?

[user]

I'd always go with a .38 rather than .357, because the added flash/bang/recoil doesn't buy you all that much in an increase in effectiveness (unless, of course, you are attacked by a cast-iron engine block). A standard .38 special (i.e., not +P) has enough kinetic energy at fifty yards to be able to shatter human bone. I suggest, therefore, that it will be effective at normal defensive range. Besides which, the perceived recoil from any cartridge in an itty bitty gun like you're talking about, OP, will be more than I want to deal with, and I absolutely hate shooting a .357 out of a snubnosed revolver. People say they practice with .38's and carry .357's but as I see it, you won't get a second shot at all doing things that way - if you need the gun in an emergency, after the first shot, you'll be blind, deaf, the gun will be up in the air from the recoil, and your hand will hurt. I think you should practice with what you carry. And, if you carry .38's, carry them in a gun chambered for .38 (it's a tenth of an inch shorter, anyway).

[ozo]

My choice......in a .38
Fragmented 60grain 1700fps

http://rbcd.net/Personal%20Defense-%20Ammo.htm

I also use this .38 round [self-defense] in my .357

[Inthewind1976]

My primary carry gun is an Airweight Smith and Wesson in 38S. I have always shot a LOT over the years, with 38 Spec ammo, especially back when my ONLY handgun was a 6" 357 and I was a poor college student barely able to purchase $5 for 50 RNL 158's - Ahhhh, to have THOSE ammo prices again these days! Ive never felt "under gunned" with 125 JHP +Ps (which I admit I fire sparingly in my 37 because it was made "pre +P not due to recoil, but because I dont want to wear out my favorite carry gun!).

[Boris]

The only problem I can see with the allready low speed of the 158 is it being even slower from a 2". I found a video on that load being tested in water alone. One thing I learned about a pure water test is it is hard on projectiles and I use it for an extreme expansion test to see how well a round will stay together.

The kind of expansion I see in this video and seeing it in the past then shooting live critters with that ammo always gave me worse results. Add in thick layers of clothing you might encounter and there will be no expansion.

The lack of expansion will mean over penetration.

I would look for a round designed for performance from a shorter barrel, then learn to handle it.

That kind of performance would be a no go for me from anything other than a 4" or longer barrel...

The muzzle flash is also huge in the daylight.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKth7...1337E5EB504399

[user]

The .357 will make a neat hole clean through the ordinary human in that context. If it happens to hit the heart, brain, or an artery, it will be effective. Of course, you could say the same for a .22LR. I think the +P in the .38 is more than useful. Ordinary Federal HST or equivalent will do just fine. We're not talking long range shooting, right? And the average .38 will kick out enough kinetic energy at 50 yards to crush a normal femur, so I'm pretty sure it will be "effective" at normal defensive range. All +P will do in a snubby is give you a bit more recoil. Not more effective. I think, for reasons stated above, the .357 will actually be less effective.

[graehaven]

The .38 +P is more than adequate.

[hogger129]

I'd go with the .38 Special +P simply because of the lower recoil.

[jbmid1]

Originally Posted by ozo

My choice......in a .38
Fragmented 60grain 1700fps

http://rbcd.net/Personal%20Defense-%20Ammo.htm

I also use this .38 round [self-defense] in my .357

That looks like good stuff Ozo. Bigger is usually better, unless it's going extremely fast and shatters on contact.

[PanhandlePop]

In my 3 in. SP101 use the 357 short barrel from Speer--135 gr, maybe the same bullet they use in the 38 +p??

[Caneman]

Can't you shoot your favorite 38 sp or 38 +P SD round in a .357? I thought the .357 could also shoot any .38 rounds as well...

[Unknownphynix]

Def the .38. The .357 coming out a 2" bbl does not mature in it's true velocity...u need at least 4" bbl to really have a 158gr sizzle out. I would NEVER feel under gunned with my trusty snubbie. The following is great SD ammo:
Hornady FTX 110gr (bout 960fps)
Corbon JHP 110gr +p (bout 1050 fps) *make sure pistol is +p rated...
Hope this helps

[carver]

Originally Posted by Caneman

Can't you shoot your favorite 38 sp or 38 +P SD round in a .357? I thought the .357 could also shoot any .38 rounds as well...

Yes, you are correct, you can shoot .38's in a .357. But if you carry the .357 loaded with .38's you will be carring extra weight that will do you no good unless you have to hit the BG with the gun! The .357's are heavier than a .38 due to more steel in them to handle the presures.

[SWirsty]

Originally Posted by carver

Yes, you are correct, you can shoot .38's in a .357. But if you carry the .357 loaded with .38's you will be carring extra weight that will do you no good unless you have to hit the BG with the gun! The .357's are heavier than a .38 due to more steel in them to handle the presures.

Unless you are carrying the S&W 360PD Scandium frame and Titanium cylinder. I Cant wait for mine to come in. I'm sure I will still be shooting a .38 over the .357 though.