30-06 Reloads with Barnes Tipped TSX Bullets

[trapnbow]

Gentlemen,

I am ready to start reloading some 30-06 rifle cartridges using the Barnes 168 grain TTSX bullets and would appreciate advice on the following issues. I spoke with the factory techies and they suggested starting with a COAL about 0.050 off the rifling.
1. Has anyone had reloading experience with these all copper bullets?
2. Has anyone done experiments to choose an optimum COAL?
3. How good is the accuracy of these bullets as compared to traditional lead core bullets? What I read is not good.
4. Any tips on powder choices?

Thanks,

[jack404]

1 yes i have and it was all good to actually reload , however i i have gone away from the TTSX

2 no sorry cant help there

3 keep the speed low ( below about 2700 fps mv) and they are ok , sending them hyper velocity aint good , that is mine and a good friend here experience on both attempts . old data was 2730 MV 600 meter group 164mm ( bit over 6" ) 3100 MV 600 meter group 290 mm ( just under 12" ) and at higher speeds we had some self destructs , just shrapnel hit the target..

4 IMR-4350 and Hodgdon H-4350 work well but i am limited to the brands i can get in Australia so there may be better over there

[American Leader]

I use Reloader 15 for my 06 and like it a lot.

[JLA]

That bullet in the 06 backed with H4350 will serve you well.

In my experience the Barnes triple shocks shoot as well as Match Grade bullets. In fact Id shoot ONLY TSXs if they werent so dadgum expensive...

Load them the way Barnes tells you too. Once you hash out a load that works well, then play with the seating depth to fine tune the load...

[Bindernut]

1. I haven't used any TSX or TTSX in the 30-06, but I have a couple rifles that shoot Barnes bullets very well (and one that doesn't like the new TSX design too).

2. For COAL, follow Barnes suggestion and start with 0.050" off the lands. Develop a baseline with that and try adjusting it a bit closer or farther as needed to tune up the groups if needed.
I've got one rifle that like them seated 0.020"...otherwise you'd swear it was a shotgun.
For "minute of deer" hunting loads you can probably just stick with that 0.050" starting distance and have good luck. But where's the fun in not experimenting with your loads?

3. Accuracy will vary from rifle to rifle. I've owned rifles that absolutely will not group well with the Barnes no matter what I try, but most of the guys/rifles that I know have tried Barnes have had good luck with em.
*** troll alert! *** I will risk a flame war and venture a guess that a lot of the guys that complain about terrible accuracy with Barnes didn't really take the time to try and work up a load either...and they probably do the same about any other high-dollar premium bullet if they don't get those magic little groups right away.
"If it's twice as expensive it should be twice as accurate?" is one that I've heard at the range more than once. but when you ask them how they tried tuning the load I usually get a blank stare.

4. Can't help ya there as I don't load the .30-06.

[Popgunner]

I really like the Barnes all-copper bullets.
I have their load manual which is a good one & have loaded their bullets into 8 rifle calibers so far. The copper is a little softer than usually used for regular copper jackets & does copper foul a little more but Barnes makes a good copper remover. The few shots I've had at game with them had great results. Barnes says you can use their 165 grain bullets in 30 caliber instead of 180 grain "regular" bullets that they say effectively turns a 30-06 into a 300 mag.

The first three shots out of my new Ruger M-77 338 win mag were Hornady factory loads with Barnes copper bullets & they grouped at less than an inch at 100 yards.

Gotta get their load manual if you want to handload their bullets.

[myfriendis410]

I live where we are required to shoot non toxic ammo. That said; I've been loading and shooting the Barnes for over five years now and it is my go-to bullet for any rifle. We do have other choices to load with now, but you lose some velocity with the gilding metal bullets. Ultimately you have to go with what your rifle prefers so if your gun shoots the E-tip better, then use it; it's a great bullet too. My personal experience loading the Barnes is, unlike stated above, the bullet needs to be driven hard. I start near maximum load in the Barnes manual and work UP. My 7mm r.m. load is 4 grains over book maximum with zero pressure signs and 1/4" groups. The opposite is true of the Nosler. The book states midrange data for lead is maximum for the E-tip.

I load for: .243, 270 wsm, .270, 7mm r.m., 30-06, .300 wsm, .300 win mag, 45-70, and muzzleloader. My 7mm r.m. and .300 win mag loads both cloverleaf at 100, and my preferred bullet in the .300 is the 168 gr. TTSX. I have shot lots of animals with the Barnes and if you hit 'em right they usually go right down. I dropped a running elk with my .300 at 250 yards using that same 168 grainer. All of the rest are under m.o.a.

I've shot coyotes in excess of 400 yards with the .243 and the 7 mm r.m. I haven't lost one animal.

Copper fouling can be an issue, but as stated above, the Barnes CR10 cleaner works well if you follow the instructions.

As to powder for the -06, RL19, IMR 4350, H4831 all work well. Use a Federal primer if possible, failing that; CCI. IMO using copper makes more rifle out of your gun. Will it turn an -06 into a .300? Probably not, but then, who cares? You can still kill anything in North America with it......

[trapnbow]

Gentlemen,
Thank you all for your prompt responses and the information in each reply. This is an overwhelming response. When summarizing the responses, I guess that I am on the right track and I will buy the Barnes Reloading Manual.

I have been using the Hornady Superformance SST ammunition and SST bullets in reloads very successfully. It is tough to make the change because the TSX and TTSX are not just new projectiles, it is new technology and the bullets have very different dymanics.

I am going to try the 168 grain TTSX for Elk, (Barnes theory), and need a proven load for this October. I have spoken to Ryan at Barnes and he suggests trying IMR 4064 powder with a 168 grain TTSX spaced 0.050" to 0.075" off the rifling. I think that I will start with this recipe. If the rifle does not like them moving fast I will try the TTSX 180 grain and slow the load down.
Thanks,

[myfriendis410]

If your rifle liked the Hornady, you might consider purchasing the GMX in a lighter bullet than the one you shot that was cup-and-core to match the cross-section of the older bullet. You may find they perform well for you. The Nosler E-tip is also great, but there is a velocity loss with these two brands due to their construction. But you always have to go with what the gun wants......

[trapnbow]

myfriend410,
Thank you for the reply. Yes, I have thought about the Hornady GMS. They make a 165 grain that would probably work. I wrote them and asked why Hornady does not offer a 180 grain GMS but I never heard back. It is a possibility and is on the list.
I decided to try the Barnes because they have been very aggressively touting the ability of these TSX and TTSX bullets. My hunting buddy in AZ sounds like their VP of Sales! LOL He has seen various hunting videos at the firearm shows and has become a believer.
However, as you say, the rifle has the final and conclusive vote on what it likes.
Thanks,

[myfriendis410]

My current favorite bullet is the 168 gr. TTSX in my .300 win mag over 75.0 gr. of IMR 7828ssc, loaded in Nosler brass, ignited with a Federal 215m loaded WAY off the lands due to the huge freebore of my rifle. It holds 1/2" which is plenty and I've killed mule deer, elk, blacktails and LOTS of hogs with it. It's usually DRT with food in their mouths. Only recovered a couple of TSX's over the years but you could sell 'em as advertising for Barnes. A buddy came up this last weekend and blasted a nice boar with his 30-06 loaded with the E-tip and actually recovered it. It looked fantastic too.

[trapnbow]

myfriendis410,
Thanks for the comments and load information. I have measured the distance to the lands with the new TTSX bullets, determined the COAL that I will use and am ready to load the first batch. The weather has been terrible here in NE and I will get shooting as soon as things dry out. Results to follow.
Thanks,