Accurizing the 1911

[lonewolf204]

I'm looking for some good books on accurizing the 1911. I would appreciate any input on this suject.

[hogger129]

Originally Posted by lonewolf204

I'm looking for some good books on accurizing the 1911. I would appreciate any input on this suject.

Idk about any books, but I know one way that helps accurize the 1911 is with a tighter barrel and barrel bushing. I recently had a Wilson Combat barrel and barrel bushing fitted for my gun, going out to the range to test it out tomorrow.

Also, the ammunition you use can make a big difference.

From there, I might lighten up the trigger pull a bit. I would say 4-4.5lbs is plenty.

The beavertail grip safety can help as it helps get a higher grip on the gun. Same way as front strap checkering as it helps get a better hold on the weapon.

Compensator maybe? Adjustable sights? Some guns come with a lot of this stuff already on it too.


A lot of it is just theory. Understanding what these parts do.

[JLA]

PM me your email lonewolf. i will send you an article in pdf on national match 1911s and how they are built. Its one of my favorite reads on the 1911 and how to make em sing.

[Inthewind1976]

The tightness of the lockup, and the consistency of the lockup are the main factors in the accuracy of a 1911 pattern pistol. Primarily, the main components in this are the barrel bushing, barrel itself, and the length of the toggle link. Also, to a slightly lesser extent, the tightness of the slide to frame fit, and the barrel top lugs to slide fit. Fitting/tightening one or all of these "fits" are the key to successfully shrinking groups fired from a 1911.

[Brisk44]

Yes sir this is an excellent book on the subject, actually in my and many others the absolute best.
The Colt .45 Automatic
A Shop Manual

By Jerry Kuhnhausen

Get this book and read from cover to cover, You will be able to turn out one super 1911.

[Double D]

Read reliability tricks above this thread, its a sticky written by shooter. It has a ton of good info in it....

[Insulation Tim]

Originally Posted by JLA

PM me your email lonewolf. i will send you an article in pdf on national match 1911s and how they are built. Its one of my favorite reads on the 1911 and how to make em sing.

Could you post the link here?

[Insulation Tim]

Originally Posted by Double D

Read reliability tricks above this thread, its a sticky written by shooter. It has a ton of good info in it....

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[Double D]

Tim, look in the list of threads above this one. Sam has a sticky on reliability tricks.

[hogger129]

Originally Posted by Insulation Tim

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http://thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=36972

[ivarr]

i don't have any books to recommend, but a couple years ago i got ahold of the 4 DVD's of the Wilson combat gunsmithing, it's from the early 90's ( i think, judging by the clothes and comical mullet haircuts of the guys in it ) and covers everything in building a serious fighting 1911 from lowering an ejection port to fitting new sights and barrels. and they focus on the non-professional gunsmith, meaning doing the work with hand files and dremel type tools rather than lathes and milling machines.

i couldn't recommend anything else i have over it, it's a really incredible teaching tool.

[Airdale]

You might want to try AGI videos. They ain't cheap and they have at least three but this one might be what you want. Watch the sample video:
http://www.americangunsmith.com/view.php?id=21

[JLA]

Originally Posted by Insulation Tim

Could you post the link here?

i have it saved on my PC in PDF.. I dunno if the images will upload. Ill try. if not just PM me your email addy. and Ill mail em to ya.

[lonewolf204]

Thanks for all the comments and sugestions.

[Shooter45]

One more.

http://shopwilsoncombat.com/The-Comb...oductinfo/318/

[lonewolf204]

Originally Posted by ivarr

i don't have any books to recommend, but a couple years ago i got ahold of the 4 DVD's of the Wilson combat gunsmithing, it's from the early 90's ( i think, judging by the clothes and comical mullet haircuts of the guys in it ) and covers everything in building a serious fighting 1911 from lowering an ejection port to fitting new sights and barrels. and they focus on the non-professional gunsmith, meaning doing the work with hand files and dremel type tools rather than lathes and milling machines.

i couldn't recommend anything else i have over it, it's a really incredible teaching tool.

What is the name of these dvds? Is it combat custumizing the 1911?

Thanks

[Shooter45]

http://shopwilsoncombat.com/DVDs/products/215/

[lonewolf204]

Thanks for the help!

[Shooter45]

I have an article written about accurizing the 1911 but haven't had time to post it. I guess slow typing may have something to do with that.

[Bigbill]

I purchased the Jerry K 1911/1911a1 The Shop Manual along with his armorers video. Then i picked up the wilson combat dvd's along with the AGI dvd's also. There's more about working on the frame rails in the AGI DVD than in the others. I deceided to get them all anyway. I hammered them all winter on the cold winter nights on and off. www.midwayusa.com & www.brownells.com has them.

I picked up a well ridden Chinese Norinco 1911a1 because of its forged frame and slide plus some will say the steel is from our old scrap rail road track. Anyway its suppose to be one of the better platforms to do a 1911 build from. It only cost me $300 in close to excellent condition but it had a lot of wear with the frame rails/slide fit and the slide bore, the barrel bushing/barrel area. The barrel bushing was more loose in the slide than it was on the barrel.

Wanting to end up with a shooter/beater that i wanted i purchased a new 1911/45acp barrel for $59 and a FLGR kit (full length guide rod) with an 18# recoil spring from sportsmans guide and an IAI national match barrel bushing and a full wrap around IAI rubber grips.

I fitted the national match barrel bushing to the slide first till i only needed the bushing wrench for the last 1/4 turn. Its not tight, its a snug fit. Once the NM bushing is fitted, fitting the barrel is next. I fitted the barrel so its sitting parallel with the slide. Then i fitted it in the lower position were it loads a round. I made sure it had no barrel spring in the lower position. Then i fitted in the full battery position again with no barrel spring and it has 100% lockup in full battery. The NM barrel bushing holds the barrel in full battery with a snug fit. Now it can hinge down to load a round and go into full battery with 100% lockup with no barrel spring when its in the upper and lower positions.

I cleaned all the parts and lubed her with moly. At the range the test fire went well. It cycles flawlessly and is smoother with less over travel saving time when it loads the next round. I did notice she shoots 1 clover leaf per mag at 25yds. and i even let my son and his girlfriend shoot it and they both shot cloverleafs with it too. (new to the 1911).

Moly is an extreme pressure lube. It gets into the pores of the metal and actually wears against itself there is no metal to metal contact its moly against moly thus the wear is eliminated. Moly also reduces friction and fights corrosion too. it also prevents galling. All my guns are lubed with moly they never leave home without it.
www.tsmoly.com I use the ts-70 moly paste or anti seeze they both have a higher % of moly in them.

I did another change to it recently. I beveled the edge where the disconnector strikes the slide when it cycles. It smooths out the transission during the cycling. It takes that "bump" when the disconnector strikes the slide when its cycling. They also say it improves the accuracy too. I did test fire it to check the cycling again and its good.

Now my next fix is to tighten up the loose slide to frame rail fit thats mainly loose in the front section. I been shopping at brownells for the frame holding fixture, the frame rail swage tools and i need the metal shims that go into the grooves in the rails next so i can make the adjustments to tighten them up a tad. We can't make them too tight or we lose the reliability/dependability. Just a little will do.

So far so good. I think most of the accuracy comes from the barrel,slide and bushing fit. I'd say this is 90% of the accuracy. I also think the last 10% is going to be much harder to get it out and perfect.

My recoil spring experiences so far are i installed an 18# recoil spring with no guide rod. While cycling it by hand slowly i heard the coils either binding or coiling as the spring compressed. I didn't like hearing this spring noise at all. Its probably ok with the 16# recoil spring but when we go to the stronger spring this noise starts up. When i installed the full length guide rod this noise is gone now.

Just my thoughts;

My theory is the recoil spring while its compressing in this side to side motion there is pressure while coiling causes the wear on the front of the frame rails to happen. This is the only thing i can think of that causes us to see more wear at the front of the frame rails vs the rear frame rails which seem to have less wear. I figure its a combination of the recoil spring and the forces when its fired and cycling is why the front of the frame rails sees more wear than the rear section. Installing the FLGR should decrease some of the side to side forces its seeing. One more note is i believe without the FLGR were losing recoil spring pressure when its coiling and binding. And were getting the full rate of the recoil spring with the FLGR.

Example;
If were using the 18# recoil spring without the FLGR were under 18# of force. Its when we add the FLGR its seeing the full 18# force of the spring it increases because the spring is in a straight line now held to the centerline of the pistol. We could probably drop it back to the 17lb recoil spring to have the same feeling when it cycles if its too tight when we install the FLGR. t also depends on how hot the ammo were using too. Actually we are tuning the 1911 to the ammo were using.

Being a lead engineering tech and a machine builder i look at problems from both sides of the fence now. From the designers and the builders views. I'm just trying to figure out why we see more wear at the front section of the frames rails and less wear at the rear section. I see so many used 1911's in the gun shops with the exact same wear.

Right now i'm breaking in three brand new 1911's. I installed the FLGR kits in all three along with lubing them with moly. My new AO WW2 1911a1 has 500rds thru it now and there is no excessive wear at the front yet. The front still feels like the rear its still tight with no wear at all. The other two will go into the 500rd test mode soon to see if the wear is eliminated on them too.

I just want to make sure whats causing this wear then we can fix it when we work on it to build it better. Its part of the build package anyway. I could be right or wrong time and the rounds fired will tell the story. I feel if we can prevent the wear from happening it will be accurate much longer time wise. Bill

BTW; IF i'm a PIA let me know i'll go away, sorry, comming from the engineerring test lab i want to know why the wear is there and whats causing it. Once the frame rails on my norc are tightened up and she is shooting accurate with tighter groups and this front frame rail wear problem is solved i can life test the norc to see how long the accuracy will last. If the side forces in slide and the front frame rails is reduced and its lubed with moly it should outlast my lifetime in accuracy.

With the FLGR kit and the 18# recoil spring the 1911 becomes more tamer with less jump on the recoil with no side to side movement on the recoil. The 1911 now becomes a pleasure to shoot. There are a lot of shooters who don't like the 1911 because of its harsh recoil. I personally don't think its that bad but it can be tamed.

My one typing finger is sore now i'll go away...

[Bigbill]

Originally Posted by Shooter45

I have an article written about accurizing the 1911 but haven't had time to post it. I guess slow typing may have something to do with that.

I'm very interested in your article too. I'd like to tune my norc and tweek it even more. Right now it functions like a race 1911, well almost, its at the starting point of a race gun. Its way better than a stock 1911. I'm interested in lowering the ejection port and flaring it too once my frame rails are tightened up. Not all the 1911 info is exactly the same too. One may have one little bit more of info over the others thats why i purchased the 1911 shop manual and all the video's.

I know that some will disagree about using the FLGR kit. I've owned and shot the 1911's since the mid 70's. I'm not a 1911 guru but i can see and feel the difference with the FLGR kit and without the FLGR kit. Its a tad heavier with it but the plus's out weigh the negatives for sure. Bill

[lonewolf204]

BigBill, I don't think that there's anyone with to much knowledge on any one subject. I have bought the 4 video set from wilson combat, the book JK , another book or two, and I still have gained alot of info that works well from the nice folks here. Thanks for you post and keepem coming.

[Bigbill]

My story is i purchased three brand new non functioning, jamming 1911's one in the 70's, again in the 80's and another one in the 90's. I was so upset I got rid of the first two they were new colts. My third one is a 1990 springfield armory 1911a1 in purdy black park. It jammed 1rd per mag so it sat in the safe until this past year when i finally got into the video's and how to fix them. I found the extractor needed to be tentioned but they call it tuning. I tuned it and just shot it lastweek and no jams and she function the way she looks now. Its a series 90 from SA and the serial number starts off with NMXXXX. It has the larger sights and the frame to slide fit is very tight. I have other gun to shoot so it didn't bother me by sitting in the safe growing roots since 1990. Wow the 22 years flew by. I got so old so fast...thats another story. I did rework my norc first and it built up my knowledge and confidence to look at the new 90's SA i had for all these years. I refused to part with my really purdy SA in black park for all these many years.

I do have a print i made on how to fit the national match barrel bushing to the barrel for a 100% loc up yet it can hinge freely to eject and load the next round with no barrel spring at all.

I don't plan on ever being a 1911 guru or a complete gunsmith but i'm learning how to repair and tune them. I don't trust anyone doing my work at all not even on my car at onetime too. I'm tired of paying and not getting what i paid for in the past. I started fixing anything and everything myself for many years now.

Before this 1911 work i changed out the sewer pipe barrel on my german 98k 8mm mauser i paid $20 for. I got a czech 98 8mm mauser barrel and unscrewed the shot out barrel and installed the czech barrel. It was used but in new/excellent condition from e-gun parts for $37 at the time. I purchased the go, the no-go and the field 8mm headspace gauges too so i could check it when i got the barrel in it. It headspaced perfectly on the go guage(bolt closed) and the bolt wouldn't close with the no-go gauge. The he4adspace is perfect just like a new rifle. I refinished the german stock and put 10 coats of tung oil on her and mounted a 3 post military scope on it. For under $150 i have a hunting rifle with the orginal military look. Built by me. The rifle was parts and scrap when i got it.

I finally thought being a class A machine builder how hard can it be to work on guns. I even assembled parts and sub units for the 155mm howitzers for the US army there using in the sand box right now too. I did it all but assemble the gun and barrel. I worked for condiesel in waterbury,ct. They our parts and sub units went down to watervielt arsenal were the guns were assembled.

This is weird and funny. When i was building machines i got to rebuild machines from watervielt arsenal. I had no clue as to what they were machining at the time but they looked like breech boxes and the muzzle caps. When i went to work at condiesel I realized what the parts were for when i seen them in the pics.

[Bigbill]

Sorry for the bad pics my new puter just doesn't like the old kodak program. Thats my 90's SA and the 155mm howitzers i worked on for the US army. Bill

[Casey]

Must be easy to go to work when your working on something really cool like that howitzer!! Some guys get all the dream jobs!