Webley Mark IV - 38 war finish - The Firearms Forum

dmetcalf · 05-16-2011, 08:40 PM

I was given this gun today from my family. It belonged to my deceased grandfather. I am just wondering what it might be worth and approximately how old it is. The serial number is 148867. Thanks for any help you can offer.
Duane Metcalf
214 551 1466

BETH · 05-16-2011, 11:20 PM

welcome to the forum but we need more info, name of gun or rifle and #"s and a picture would help

Alpo · 05-17-2011, 09:16 AM

Beth, he put that in the title. Webley Mk IV.

How long's it been since you got new glasses?

dmetcalf, "War Finish" (they painted them as a quick, cheap finish) means it was made during WW2. So that'd be (when did England get in it? Hitler invaded Poland in September of '39) about '40 to '45.

hrf · 05-17-2011, 09:34 AM

Bruce & Reinhart's Webley Revolvers states that more than 100,000 were provided to the British Government 1939-1945.

Jim K · 05-17-2011, 01:15 PM

Webley offered the Mk IV to the British government but they and the government got into a tiff over cost and changes the government wanted, so the government developed its own .38 revolver, the No. 2, commonly called the Enfield revolver. It is often called a copy of the Webley but in fact is actually a better military arm.

Untimately, with No. 2 reevolver production inadequate, the government had to turn to Webley in WWII to make the Mk IV as a substitute standard. (They also obtained, through purchase and Lend Lease, hundreds of thousands of foreign handguns, mostly American.)

Webley had been very proud of the high polish and superb finish applied to their commercial guns and hated the idea that it was not possible to maintain those standards under wartime conditions, so they expressed both their feelings and their apologies by marking the guns as "War Finish" so no one would think such work was up to their usual quality.

The marking was directed toward the rough polish and quick blue job of the wartime guns. It did not refer to the painting with black enamel, which was done by the British army after the guns were delivered.

Value, in average condition, is around $300, more if in good shape.

The revolver fires .38 S&W cartridges, not .38 Special.

Note: The .38 Webley Mk IV should not be confused with the earlier .455 caliber Government Mk IV made by Webley.

Jim

dmetcalf · 05-21-2011, 12:05 PM

Thank you so very much for the information. I have a close friend that knows a lot about guns and he agrees. He is taking it apart and giving it a thorough cleaning and oiling. He looked it with a magnifying glass and he doesn't think it was ever fired. He said it still has remenante of a protective coating they applied to it when t was originally made. Thanks again.

Jim K · 05-21-2011, 07:40 PM

Apparently some of those guns were never issued and were sold out of stores brand new. They will have commercial English proof marks as required for all guns put on sale in England, even if they were military surplus, but other than the proof testing by the military and later by the proof house, they were never fired.

Jim

Luis Fernando · 05-22-2011, 02:54 AM

Pictures

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Luis Fernando

permafrost · 05-22-2011, 04:32 AM

You were right. it is very clean, isn't it? Nice pistol. Congratulations, nice to see them like that.

Jim Hauff · 05-22-2011, 09:35 AM

Nice pics, Luis. Those guns are very intriguing.

dmetcalf · 05-22-2011, 01:02 PM

Yeap, that is it exactly ..! I would post a picture of mine but it's still at my friends place getting cleaned and oiled. It's cool to learn so much about the history of the gun and ite company that manufactured it. Thanks for the information.

05-16-2011, 08:40 PM	#1
dmetcalf Member Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3	Webley Mark IV - 38 war finish I was given this gun today from my family. It belonged to my deceased grandfather. I am just wondering what it might be worth and approximately how old it is. The serial number is 148867. Thanks for any help you can offer. Duane Metcalf 214 551 1466 -->

05-16-2011, 11:20 PM	#2
BETH Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: naugatuck,Ct. Contributor Posts: 6,686	Re: Webley Mark IV - 38 war finish welcome to the forum but we need more info, name of gun or rifle and #"s and a picture would help

05-17-2011, 09:16 AM	#3
Alpo Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: NW Florida Posts: 8,772	Re: Webley Mark IV - 38 war finish Beth, he put that in the title. Webley Mk IV. How long's it been since you got new glasses? dmetcalf, "War Finish" (they painted them as a quick, cheap finish) means it was made during WW2. So that'd be (when did England get in it? Hitler invaded Poland in September of '39) about '40 to '45. __________________ Meddle not in the affairs of dragons, for thou art crunchy, and taste good with catsup - George of Lod, Year of Our Lord 297 I always take precautions. Beware the Evil Bullet Fairies.

05-17-2011, 09:34 AM	#4
hrf Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 2,309	Re: Webley Mark IV - 38 war finish Bruce & Reinhart's Webley Revolvers states that more than 100,000 were provided to the British Government 1939-1945.

05-17-2011, 01:15 PM	#5
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: Webley Mark IV - 38 war finish Webley offered the Mk IV to the British government but they and the government got into a tiff over cost and changes the government wanted, so the government developed its own .38 revolver, the No. 2, commonly called the Enfield revolver. It is often called a copy of the Webley but in fact is actually a better military arm. Untimately, with No. 2 reevolver production inadequate, the government had to turn to Webley in WWII to make the Mk IV as a substitute standard. (They also obtained, through purchase and Lend Lease, hundreds of thousands of foreign handguns, mostly American.) Webley had been very proud of the high polish and superb finish applied to their commercial guns and hated the idea that it was not possible to maintain those standards under wartime conditions, so they expressed both their feelings and their apologies by marking the guns as "War Finish" so no one would think such work was up to their usual quality. The marking was directed toward the rough polish and quick blue job of the wartime guns. It did not refer to the painting with black enamel, which was done by the British army after the guns were delivered. Value, in average condition, is around $300, more if in good shape. The revolver fires .38 S&W cartridges, not .38 Special. Note: The .38 Webley Mk IV should not be confused with the earlier .455 caliber Government Mk IV made by Webley. Jim Last edited by Jim K; 05-17-2011 at 01:21 PM..

05-21-2011, 12:05 PM	#6
dmetcalf Member Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3	Re: Webley Mark IV - 38 war finish Thank you so very much for the information. I have a close friend that knows a lot about guns and he agrees. He is taking it apart and giving it a thorough cleaning and oiling. He looked it with a magnifying glass and he doesn't think it was ever fired. He said it still has remenante of a protective coating they applied to it when t was originally made. Thanks again.

05-21-2011, 07:40 PM	#7
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: Webley Mark IV - 38 war finish Apparently some of those guns were never issued and were sold out of stores brand new. They will have commercial English proof marks as required for all guns put on sale in England, even if they were military surplus, but other than the proof testing by the military and later by the proof house, they were never fired. Jim

05-22-2011, 02:54 AM	#8
Luis Fernando V.I.P. Member Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: Montreal,Quebec CANADA Posts: 173	Re: Webley Mark IV - 38 war finish Pictures [IMG]http:[/IMG] [IMG]http:[/IMG] [IMG]http:[/IMG] [IMG]http:[/IMG] Luis Fernando Last edited by Luis Fernando; 05-22-2011 at 02:57 AM..

05-22-2011, 04:32 AM	#9
permafrost Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Oklahoma, USA Contributor Posts: 1,776	Re: Webley Mark IV - 38 war finish You were right. it is very clean, isn't it? Nice pistol. Congratulations, nice to see them like that. __________________ Stand and Fight

05-22-2011, 09:35 AM	#10
Jim Hauff Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Lehigh Valley, PA Posts: 2,980	Re: Webley Mark IV - 38 war finish Nice pics, Luis. Those guns are very intriguing. __________________ Jim Hauff ~ H&R Collector In Memory of Bill Goforth and Jim Ritchie

05-22-2011, 01:02 PM	#11
dmetcalf Member Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3	Re: Webley Mark IV - 38 war finish Yeap, that is it exactly ..! I would post a picture of mine but it's still at my friends place getting cleaned and oiled. It's cool to learn so much about the history of the gun and ite company that manufactured it. Thanks for the information.