.22 pistol performance

[JLA]

I have been tinkering with the idea of wearing my Bersa thunder .22 this summer. So for about the last couple days now I have been gathering info on different ammo and the ballistics they produce from pocket pistols such as the thunder .22.

So, I decided to do a thread and post results on several different ammo brands, testing both accuracy from the bench at 25 yds and expansion in a barrel of water after being fired thru an old couch cushion to represent a maximum amount of clothing.

I did 3 brands of ammo today. CCI stingers, CCI Velocitors, and just because i was curious Aguila SSS.

[JLA]

First, the stingers...

As you may have imagined these little boogers expanded explosively and fragmented as soon as they hit the water. Despite going thru 5 inches of apolstery, batting and foam cushion, They all expanded to failure. So expansion gets an A+.

Accuracy was OK for 25 yds from a mouse gun but was the worst of the 3 tested. I believe the poorer accuracy was due to the bullet plating stripping off in the bore because of the increased velocity. Note the bearing surface of all the fired bullets, they are all stripped of copper plating..

[JLA]

Next the Velocitors.

I think these are top notch for a .22 carry gun. They all expanded, some completely, some not so much, but all of them got bigger than they started.

Accuracy was twice as tight as the stingers.

[JLA]

Last of the day was the SSS 60 grainers.

These were just a tad more accurate than the Velocitors, and did not expand at all whatsoever. Due to their weight, they hit the water in the barrel with a little more of a thud than the other two...

[JLA]

Im going to be adding to this thread as I get more brands to test. Yall tell me what you want to see tested and Ill do my best to get some results.

I am gonna go tomorrow or monday to walmarts and grab some Rem yellow jackets and something HP from federal and Winchester..

[tonygrz]

Great reporting. Keep us posted. I also think the 22 and the 22mag are overlooked for CCW. Why carry a cannon when a pistol will do.

tonygrz

[Brisk44]

I don't know JLA if the idea is to carry something lighter I would check out the Ruger LCP. You can't get much lighter or smaller than that. For carry purposes .380 with +P ammo is equal to standard 9MM. I know I would feel safer with that than .22. I know bullet placement is most importent but as they say ""size does matter"". After all these are MUFF GUNS.

[JLA]

Actually the idea is to carry something i dont have to buy. I dont mind weight or size, as most of the time i carry a full size 1911. I have other choices in my gun safes.

I have been wearing this gun fishing alot lately and it is very very comfortable to wear. And it got me to thinking about the folks that do carry .22 as either a BUG or a primary carry.

So this thread is intended to show what .22 ammo will perform well from mouse pistols so those that carry them can choose the best possible ammo for the job. Besides, 2 or 3 of these little boogers in the nasal cavity or eyesocket of a BG WILL stop him..

[Jim Hauff]

JLA -
Outstanding post(s) - an ounce of real world experience is worth a ton of speculation.
Love it. If you can, try to get some of the Aguila Super Supreme (?) or whatever they're calling their 30 gr Hyper velocity stuff, this year.

Hey Brisk, "muff gun" indeed.

[ozo]

I think you are on the right track Josh.
Your info will serve a large group of 'caliber-shy' people.
Most of us know that you personally can/do carry
whatever 'size' you choose and we have seen several
that you regularly shoot on your range, but there are
many that constantly are asking the question of what gun
to get for their spouse because of recoil, etc.
We all agree that a baseball bat would be a better weapon
choice than a pencil.........but I would rather have a pencil
in close combat than nothing.
A person that is very comfortable and very familiar with a
.22LR handgun and shy and reluctant with a larger caliber
will be much safer if the need arises in a self-defense situation.
I would rather have a loved one in that position.
There was an article in [Popular Mechanics] several decades ago
[that I cannot find] titled 'From Mice To Moose', an excellent read
on the .22 long rifle cartridge and it's uses over time.

The service that you will provide with this 'testing' saves all who
read it an enormous amount of time that it would take just to
find the right .22 ammo that is most effective for self-defense.....
but maybe even save their life !
There are oodles and gobs of .22LR on the shelves, and the
'labeling' is more 'merchandising' than actual 'ballistics'.
Cyclone, Thunderbolt, X-Pert, Stinger, high-velocity, just to
name a few. The feet-per-second (fps) listed is somewhat misleading
because the projectile weight changes to increase speed.

Your gracious time spent on this project [Thank you Brother]
will show actual expansion comparisons that are critical in SD.
It doesn't matter if it's 1280fps or 1640fps if it pokes a little hole
and keeps on going into oblivion.

The best self-defense ammo is a fragmented type, as PerformancePlus
now offers-- http://rbcd.net/ --and is available in .32acp and up. It's is
awesome and kick-ass !! The entire box of 50rnds weighs less than
a knat's behind. There are those that will argue the .32acp, .380, etc.
are all too small for effective self-defense.

I carry .22LR, .38spl, and .357mag, with occasional .44mag , from a
snub nose to a large frame revolver with an 8"bbl . That's me.

If you don't like the way a gun feels/shoots....
If you flinch and close your eyes before you fire.....
If you don't shoot your carry/SD gun a bunch......
You greatly reduce your chances of staying safe if you
ever needed to defend yourself with it.

.22LR in a carry gun can not only work, but can be very effective.
It has a track record for doing so.......longer than any of us
has been alive.
Your time and effort, Josh, will make it more effective.

[JLA]

The aguila interceptors and the super supreme are both on my list of test ammo Jim. I am really starting to favor the Aguila stuff. Most of it is eley prime so its very consistent, I have had absolutley no misfires in thousands of rounds tested thru many .22s over the last couple years. But ill be picking up HP ammo from just about every manufacterer available and posting the results here..

[JLA]

Originally Posted by ozo

I think you are on the right track Josh.
Your info will serve a large group of 'caliber-shy' people.
Most of us know that you personally can/do carry
whatever 'size' you choose and we have seen several
that you regularly shoot on your range, but there are
many that constantly are asking the question of what gun
to get for their spouse because of recoil, etc.
We all agree that a baseball bat would be a better weapon
choice than a pencil.........but I would rather have a pencil
in close combat than nothing.
A person that is very comfortable and very familiar with a
.22LR handgun and shy and reluctant with a larger caliber
will be much safer if the need arises in a self-defense situation.
I would rather have a loved one in that position.
There was an article in [Popular Mechanics] several decades ago
[that I cannot find] titled 'From Mice To Moose', an excellent read
on the .22 long rifle cartridge and it's uses over time.

The service that you will provide with this 'testing' saves all who
read it an enormous amount of time that it would take just to
find the right .22 ammo that is most effective for self-defense.....
but maybe even save their life !
There are oodles and gobs of .22LR on the shelves, and the
'labeling' is more 'merchandising' than actual 'ballistics'.
Cyclone, Thunderbolt, X-Pert, Stinger, high-velocity, just to
name a few. The feet-per-second (fps) listed is somewhat misleading
because the projectile weight changes to increase speed.

Your gracious time spent on this project [Thank you Brother]
will show actual expansion comparisons that are critical in SD.
It doesn't matter if it's 1280fps or 1640fps if it pokes a little hole
and keeps on going into oblivion.

The best self-defense ammo is a fragmented type, as PerformancePlus
now offers-- http://rbcd.net/ --and is available in .32acp and up. It's is
awesome and kick-ass !! The entire box of 50rnds weighs less than
a knat's behind. There are those that will argue the .32acp, .380, etc.
are all too small for effective self-defense.

I carry .22LR, .38spl, and .357mag, with occasional .44mag , from a
snub nose to a large frame revolver with an 8"bbl . That's me.

If you don't like the way a gun feels/shoots....
If you flinch and close your eyes before you fire.....
If you don't shoot your carry/SD gun a bunch......
You greatly reduce your chances of staying safe if you
ever needed to defend yourself with it.

.22LR in a carry gun can not only work, but can be very effective.
It has a track record for doing so.......longer than any of us
has been alive.
Your time and effort, Josh, will make it more effective.

Thanks Ozo, thats exactly my aim. Plus itll be fun.

Comparing apples to apples here tho.. The Aguila SSS is more powerful than just about all the .25ACP available. Its a 60 gr bullet at 950 fps giving it a power factor of 57000. Theres a .25ACP ballistics chart here.. http://www.ballistics101.com/25_acp.php
Do the math.. They all average around 37000 powerfactor, and some of them are viable self defence ammo...
Course all these velocities are 'Label Velocities' and every gun makes different velocity in my experience...

But the tests will continue..

[ozo]

Yep.......22s aren't toys......
even tho some sell it short.
I love it. Wish I was there to participate !!

[JUNKKING]

Great post Josh, This all boils down to what you just proved. The Ammo. I myself am a big boy 62 long in a coat so I myself have carried just about everything i own including a desert eagle in a belly band holster not to be seen. There are times that I just don't feel like carrying a cannon like someone above posted when a pistol will do. I have indeed used 22lr, 22 mag, and now looking hard at a .380 since buying my bride the sig. P238. But as you did here one must experiment with ammo. Just any won't do the job if needed. Again, Great post!! +10

[Cary Lang]

Great post Josh. I have carried a .22 caliber Beretta for years during the hot months. It fits comfortably in the cargo pocket on my shorts. You hardly know it is there. I own two of the little 21A Bobcats. I am fortunate I guess, mine will consistantly feed most any make of ammo as long as it is kept clean. I practice at close range with it, 3,5 and 7 yards and accosionally at 10 yards. At these close ranges these little guns are very accurate. I normally practice by just pointing and firing it. I am impressed at how close the groupings have been at these ranges. I normally carry the CCI minimags in hollow point.

[JLA]

I just got back from making an ammo run. A nice sunday drive anyway.

I picked up a box of Win super speed HP 37 gr
A box of Rem yellow jackets 33 gr TCHP
A box of CCI mini mag HP 36 gr.
and a box of Rem Golden bullet HP 40 gr.

Im getting ready to head over to the range and test em out. Will have results later today..

[JLA]

OK! I just got back from todays testing. Pretty good results accross the board save for a couple of Failures both from the same ammo...

First up is the Rem Yellow jackets as they are the lightest and fastest of the ammo tested today. Expansion was not as I expected given their velocity but They did expand, with some fragmentation, similar results to the CCI stingers.

Accuracy was pretty good for hypervelocity despite the fact I was getting the same plating shaving off in the bore as with the CCI stingers.

And the 1 FTF (fail to fire) and 1 FTE I had were with the Yellow Jackets.

[JLA]

Next test was with Rem Golden bullets 40 gr HP.

I was fairly impressed with the expansion I got with the Golden bullets. Not all og them expanded but the ones that did were picture perfect.

Accuracy was a little lacking compared tot he others though. I got 100% reliability with the GBHPs function wise..

[JLA]

Next tested were the Win Super Speed 37 gr HPs.

Expansion was similar results to the Rem golden bullets.

Accuracy was pretty good too.

[JLA]

And finally the CCI mini mags 36 gr HP.

So far these have been top shelf out of all 7 tests. 100% perfect expansion, 100% perfect reliablilty, and decent accuracy at 25 yds.

See for yourself!

[JLA]

This is shaping up to be a really fun test. I will try to make my way by MGS and Cabelas for some of the harder to find brands. I am anxious to test the Aguila Interceptors, as well as the Win. Xpediter.. And others...

[BETH]

thanks Josh i will be watching your post as i have .22, if u had a different pistol all that would change don't u think

[JLA]

Not much. It would take alot more barrel than a couple inches one way or the other to change these results. The Bersa Thunder .22 im using has a 3.5" barrel which is right about the middle of the road as far as a CCW .22LR would go.

[Hawg]

Try some Wolf.

How can they be muff guns when women don't use muffs anymore?

[JLA]

Does Wolf have antything in HP? I was thinkin they were all RN.. IF they got HPs Ill test em..