New to rim fire .22 and not having a good go at it

jubylives · 06-11-2011, 08:02 AM

I normally shoot larger caliber bolt action guns but decided to go .22 semi auto to keep the wear and tear on the shoulder down and to shoot with my kids. So I went to a local gun guy and traded one of my guns for a .22. He gave me a Rock Island M20P or as I find out it is actually an Armscor rifle. I got that and some other goodies. We take it and fire some rounds and decide it was fun so I buy my son a Marlin. Took them to the range and his Marlin would only fire every other shot. Took it back and he sent it in to the manufacturer.

Went to the range yesterday with the M20P and now it won't work right. Most fo the time the empty casing won't come out and get jammed or the round won't want to go in the chamber.

So now I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong here. I have no manuals for the RI/Armscor and I've never tore one of these .22 semi autos apart before. Any ideas or advice here? We didn't have the Marlin long enough to remember the model number and I can't find much info on the other. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Jeremy

jack404 · 06-11-2011, 08:19 AM

G'day Jeremy, Welcome to the forum !

firstly manual ,, http://min.us/mvpeJ8u

the M20P is the sterling and squires bingham so a search of FTE entries here , theres been a few .. its been too long since i played witgh them but mainly i remember you gotta keep em clean , some ammo does gunk em up some ..

but the experts will be along shortly to let you know exactly what you can do

lanceb152 · 06-11-2011, 09:04 AM

make sure you use hy velocity. iuse Rem. Golden Bullets

Hawg · 06-11-2011, 10:49 AM

Remington bullets are a crap shoot with Thunderbolts the crappiest of them all. Federal or Winchester bulk are good. If you want really good ammo use CCI. I never met a .22 that didn't like CCI so if it doesn't work with them it's a problem with the gun.

ka64 · 06-11-2011, 10:56 AM

I use Remington hyper velocity at 1410 Fps it performs the best in my 22 Conversion on my 1911.

Jim Hauff · 06-11-2011, 11:14 AM

The Squires Bingham/Philippino made .22 semis are notoriously picky with regard to ammo used and are commonly known as "jammomatics" - magazines are a common cause of feeding problems and cleanliness of chambers is a common cause of failures to feed and eject.

jubylives · 06-11-2011, 11:38 AM

Thanks for the replies. I took the gun in. They have their own 90 day warrenty on what they sell. He said it was probably the water dispersment grease that is probably the culprit. Now I have two .22 rifles in for repair and I haven't had this one for more then a month. Funny how my 1943 Mosin has had no problems. lol

Thanks for the link to the manual. That helps me a lot. I am real nervous about taking these apart and getting it back together again. Any advice on that regard.

Thanks
Jeremy

old semperfi · 06-11-2011, 12:59 PM

i will guarantee the marlin will be a great rifle,as for the other.it is and was a marginal shooter to start with.the phillipines are not noted for their machine work.if you have a return guarantee then ditch it and get you a marlin,savage,or ruger. old semperfi

Old Grump · 06-11-2011, 01:38 PM

Don't be afraid to take them apart its only scary the first few times, then comes the day you lose a part and panic sets in. after that its easy. Every make and brand has stinkers but more gems then stinkers and Armscor isn't a bad company.

What you are running into is why I always recommend a bolt action first but you got it you will figure it out. Just be patient. You didn't mention what brand or type of ammo you are shooting. You already got mixed reviews on the Remington Golden Bullet, I for one am a fan if you buy them in the boxes of 100 and not the bulk value pack boxes.

The big thing for me is plated bullets no matter what brand you get instead of the waxed lead bullets, they will really gum up a tight chamber fast. Some guns don't like truncated bullets but 38 gr HP or 40 gr solids will feed fine. Some guns don't like standard velocity bullets so the recommendation for the high velocity is good for those guns.

Before the gun gets a bad rap tell us what you are shooting and then your cleaning habits. Even if you don't take it apart you need to take the barrel and receiver out of the stock and spray the mechanism down with a solvent to clean out the gunk, then lubricate it. Chambers have to be clean whether you mess around with the barrel much or not, the chamber has to be clean. (Another reason I like bolt actions, I buy guns easy to clean because they are more likely to get cleaned.)

Good luck, have fun

ka64 · 06-11-2011, 01:42 PM

Guns are like babies, you got to learn what they like to eat.........

RJay · 06-11-2011, 02:03 PM

I have several .22's that I have never had a misfire nor ejection problem, you must have bad karma. Comparing a modern .22 semi auto rifle to a primitive rifle such as the Mosin Nagant is some what like comparing kumquats to cherries. The Mosin had to be a very simple rifle because it was made by untrained peasants to be used by untrained peasants, and had to be made in the millions. Try a Marlin 39 or Henry Lever Action or a Ruger 10-22. In MHO the Squires/MP20 is a peice of , well anyway you get what you pay for. JMHO and I have others.

jubylives · 06-11-2011, 02:54 PM

Thanks fellas. I did forget to mention the ammo. The brand was Winchester and it was what the dealer recommended using. I do think he screwed me over on the rifle. At least that is how I feel about the whole thing. Being new to this hobby I kinda let my guard down for some stupid reason.

Oh and the comparison to the Nagant was just in jest. I just think it funny I can't keep a modern weapon going but that 68 year old gun fires like new everytime. Just humorous in a non funny way as it is my ass in the prediciment. lol

Maybe I will go the higher end rounds when I ever get my guns back.

Jeremy

Blackshirts · 06-11-2011, 04:35 PM

Well since it is a semi-auto Marlin it is probably a 60 or 795. If it is tube fed it is a 60, magazine fed it is a 795. If by it "only fired every other shot", you meant it chambered just fine but just did not fire when you pulled the trigger then it should come back in perfect order. If it chambers and all that then it is probably something simple that needs fixing. Maybe the firing pin/spring needed replacing. I have a 795 and love it. I run pretty much exclusively Federal Lightning($1.47/50 at Walmart) and it loves them.

doug66 · 06-11-2011, 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ka64

Guns are like babies, you got to learn what they like to eat.........

true

American Leader · 06-11-2011, 09:34 PM

Welcome aboard Jubylives! like ka64 says, find what your rifle likes and all will most likely be fine. You will be glad you got into .22's because you can release a lot of pent up disires to shoot for a relatively low cost. It sorta subsidizes your more expensive firearms. I love'em alot! I'll bet you eventually up grade your choice, I own several but prefer centerfire, however, shooting many rounds of anything keeps you sharp. Happy shooting!

woolleyworm · 06-11-2011, 09:41 PM

lots of good advice; I'd second the use of Federal or CCI ammo. Marlins are great guns; just gotta keep'em clean. My first bit of advice would be : with any new firearm, it should be broken down, cleaned and then test fired. Manufacturers ship them with copious amounts of grease and protectants that must be cleaned.

My suggestion is that if the LGS where you bought them has a bench; ask them to show you how to take it down and clean it. You're buying a couple of guns from them, they ought to be willing enough to take 20 min and give you a quick run down.

Glad to have you on the forum and lookin fwd to hearing how it all turns out !

Semper Fi,

Woolley

williamd · 06-11-2011, 09:55 PM

Ditto lanceb152 on ammo. Federal red box works okay for me. Eley used to but since Remington bought them it is not the quality it used to be. That Eley Black Box of old in my Walther Olympic KKJ was incredible. Brought home the bacon from lots of shoots.

I have found the Ruger 10/22 impossible to beat and very accurate for a relative inexpensive 22rf. Also have an OLD Stevens M87D that seldom malfunctions after 50 years. But, admit that for accuracy I go bolt. My GrandSon insists on the semi and a fast trigger. Wonders why he does not have bullseyes, too?

Solddaboat · 06-11-2011, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jubylives

Thanks for the replies. I took the gun in. They have their own 90 day warrenty on what they sell. He said it was probably the water dispersment grease that is probably the culprit. Now I have two .22 rifles in for repair and I haven't had this one for more then a month. Funny how my 1943 Mosin has had no problems. lol

Thanks for the link to the manual. That helps me a lot. I am real nervous about taking these apart and getting it back together again. Any advice on that regard.

Thanks
Jeremy

Maybe you should take your own advice and find an older "real" .22, be it Remington, Winchester or Mossberg or maybe even a Wards Westernfield or Sears... they will still out shoot most of this crap made today.....

jubylives · 06-11-2011, 11:19 PM

That's where I am at. I went and looked at some older ones today actually. I do prefer bolt action. I went with this orignally to shoot with my kids. I was thinking of the guns like cars. Easier to teach them to drive the car if it is an automatic instead of a stick.

I took it in and he cleaned it up and said there was some burs that needed filed down. I guess I will find out tomorrow. Thanks for the advice fellers.

Jeremy

jack404 · 06-11-2011, 11:22 PM

I've a lithgow model 1 .22 older than i am , its got more bunnies foxes roo's and goats than anything else i own , i love it ..

Solddaboat · 06-11-2011, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jubylives

That's where I am at. I went and looked at some older ones today actually. I do prefer bolt action. I went with this orignally to shoot with my kids. I was thinking of the guns like cars. Easier to teach them to drive the car if it is an automatic instead of a stick.

I took it in and he cleaned it up and said there was some burs that needed filed down. I guess I will find out tomorrow. Thanks for the advice fellers.

Jeremy

I don't know about a car analogy... but if they are going to make a mistake.... I would just as soon have them make it... one at a time....

jubylives · 06-12-2011, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solddaboat

I don't know about a car analogy... but if they are going to make a mistake.... I would just as soon have them make it... one at a time....

True but I'm working on teaching the second of my four kids to drive and I'd rather have them with both hands on the wheel.

Who needs amusement park rides when you are teaching a teenager to drive.

Jeremy

williamd · 06-12-2011, 09:49 AM

If you move back to semi's ... many do not like them but I have a Nylon66 that was the first in the TX Panhandle (~1960) that still shoots great and has been 100% reliable. See them used in the $250 range. Even decent used single shots near that out here on the LEFT coast. Whatever, enjoy!

fishslayerbob · 06-12-2011, 05:58 PM

I don't think you can stress enough that a semiauto needs to be fed what it likes to eat. The round that my buddies use with absolute success is Federal gameshock or champion in their semis. You want to stick with high velocity for sure like was mentioned before for good cycling. Just go out and buy a box each of as many brands as you can find (50 rounders) and fire them at a 50 yd. target to check for accuracy while you're checking cycling and kill two birds with one round. You'll be surprised at the accuracy difference! My bolt and pump rifles do not do well in the accuracy department with any of the hyper velocity stuff. Anyway, half the fun will be the quest for the perfect round for each rifle, kinda like when we find the perfect handload for our center fires.
Have lots of fun!!!
fishslayerbob

jubylives · 06-12-2011, 06:19 PM

Got my gun back from the shop. It shoots very well now. I did go abd but a box of the CCI ammo. There is a huge differenc between CCI and others. The sound was different and the shell extracted alot harder and actually flew away further then the Winchester and remington rounds I had left. Looks like I will be a CCI ammo guy from here on out. We were hitting clay pigeons at 100 yards much more often. Thanks for the tip on that ammo.

06-11-2011, 08:02 AM	#1
jubylives Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 25	New to rim fire .22 and not having a good go at it I normally shoot larger caliber bolt action guns but decided to go .22 semi auto to keep the wear and tear on the shoulder down and to shoot with my kids. So I went to a local gun guy and traded one of my guns for a .22. He gave me a Rock Island M20P or as I find out it is actually an Armscor rifle. I got that and some other goodies. We take it and fire some rounds and decide it was fun so I buy my son a Marlin. Took them to the range and his Marlin would only fire every other shot. Took it back and he sent it in to the manufacturer. Went to the range yesterday with the M20P and now it won't work right. Most fo the time the empty casing won't come out and get jammed or the round won't want to go in the chamber. So now I'm wondering what I'm doing wrong here. I have no manuals for the RI/Armscor and I've never tore one of these .22 semi autos apart before. Any ideas or advice here? We didn't have the Marlin long enough to remember the model number and I can't find much info on the other. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Jeremy -->

06-11-2011, 08:19 AM	#2
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: New to rim fire .22 and not having a good go at it G'day Jeremy, Welcome to the forum ! firstly manual ,, http://min.us/mvpeJ8u the M20P is the sterling and squires bingham so a search of FTE entries here , theres been a few .. its been too long since i played witgh them but mainly i remember you gotta keep em clean , some ammo does gunk em up some .. but the experts will be along shortly to let you know exactly what you can do

06-11-2011, 09:04 AM	#3
lanceb152 Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: s.w.fl Posts: 18	Re: New to rim fire .22 and not having a good go at it make sure you use hy velocity. iuse Rem. Golden Bullets

06-11-2011, 10:49 AM	#4
Hawg Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,554	Re: New to rim fire .22 and not having a good go at it Remington bullets are a crap shoot with Thunderbolts the crappiest of them all. Federal or Winchester bulk are good. If you want really good ammo use CCI. I never met a .22 that didn't like CCI so if it doesn't work with them it's a problem with the gun.

06-11-2011, 10:56 AM	#5
ka64 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Michigan Contributor Posts: 1,412	Re: New to rim fire .22 and not having a good go at it I use Remington hyper velocity at 1410 Fps it performs the best in my 22 Conversion on my 1911.

06-11-2011, 11:14 AM	#6
Jim Hauff Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Lehigh Valley, PA Posts: 2,980	Re: New to rim fire .22 and not having a good go at it The Squires Bingham/Philippino made .22 semis are notoriously picky with regard to ammo used and are commonly known as "jammomatics" - magazines are a common cause of feeding problems and cleanliness of chambers is a common cause of failures to feed and eject. __________________ Jim Hauff ~ H&R Collector In Memory of Bill Goforth and Jim Ritchie

06-11-2011, 11:38 AM	#7
jubylives Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 25	Re: New to rim fire .22 and not having a good go at it Thanks for the replies. I took the gun in. They have their own 90 day warrenty on what they sell. He said it was probably the water dispersment grease that is probably the culprit. Now I have two .22 rifles in for repair and I haven't had this one for more then a month. Funny how my 1943 Mosin has had no problems. lol Thanks for the link to the manual. That helps me a lot. I am real nervous about taking these apart and getting it back together again. Any advice on that regard. Thanks Jeremy

06-11-2011, 12:59 PM	#8
old semperfi Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: i live in southern indiana,old country boy at heart Posts: 1,506	Re: New to rim fire .22 and not having a good go at it i will guarantee the marlin will be a great rifle,as for the other.it is and was a marginal shooter to start with.the phillipines are not noted for their machine work.if you have a return guarantee then ditch it and get you a marlin,savage,or ruger. old semperfi

06-11-2011, 01:38 PM	#9
Old Grump Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Little hut in the woods near Blue River Wisconsin Posts: 2,285	Re: New to rim fire .22 and not having a good go at it Don't be afraid to take them apart its only scary the first few times, then comes the day you lose a part and panic sets in. after that its easy. Every make and brand has stinkers but more gems then stinkers and Armscor isn't a bad company. What you are running into is why I always recommend a bolt action first but you got it you will figure it out. Just be patient. You didn't mention what brand or type of ammo you are shooting. You already got mixed reviews on the Remington Golden Bullet, I for one am a fan if you buy them in the boxes of 100 and not the bulk value pack boxes. The big thing for me is plated bullets no matter what brand you get instead of the waxed lead bullets, they will really gum up a tight chamber fast. Some guns don't like truncated bullets but 38 gr HP or 40 gr solids will feed fine. Some guns don't like standard velocity bullets so the recommendation for the high velocity is good for those guns. Before the gun gets a bad rap tell us what you are shooting and then your cleaning habits. Even if you don't take it apart you need to take the barrel and receiver out of the stock and spray the mechanism down with a solvent to clean out the gunk, then lubricate it. Chambers have to be clean whether you mess around with the barrel much or not, the chamber has to be clean. (Another reason I like bolt actions, I buy guns easy to clean because they are more likely to get cleaned.) Good luck, have fun __________________ "When once a republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil."~~- Thomas Jefferson Roman Catholic, Life Member of American Legion, VFW, Wisconsin Libertarian party, Wi-FORCE, WGO, NRA, JPFO, GOA, SAFand CCRKBA

06-11-2011, 01:42 PM	#10
ka64 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Michigan Contributor Posts: 1,412	Re: New to rim fire .22 and not having a good go at it Guns are like babies, you got to learn what they like to eat.........

06-11-2011, 02:03 PM	#11
RJay Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Arizona Posts: 3,485	Re: New to rim fire .22 and not having a good go at it I have several .22's that I have never had a misfire nor ejection problem, you must have bad karma. Comparing a modern .22 semi auto rifle to a primitive rifle such as the Mosin Nagant is some what like comparing kumquats to cherries. The Mosin had to be a very simple rifle because it was made by untrained peasants to be used by untrained peasants, and had to be made in the millions. Try a Marlin 39 or Henry Lever Action or a Ruger 10-22. In MHO the Squires/MP20 is a peice of , well anyway you get what you pay for. JMHO and I have others. __________________ RonJames

06-11-2011, 02:54 PM	#12
jubylives Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 25	Re: New to rim fire .22 and not having a good go at it Thanks fellas. I did forget to mention the ammo. The brand was Winchester and it was what the dealer recommended using. I do think he screwed me over on the rifle. At least that is how I feel about the whole thing. Being new to this hobby I kinda let my guard down for some stupid reason. Oh and the comparison to the Nagant was just in jest. I just think it funny I can't keep a modern weapon going but that 68 year old gun fires like new everytime. Just humorous in a non funny way as it is my ass in the prediciment. lol Maybe I will go the higher end rounds when I ever get my guns back. Jeremy

06-11-2011, 04:35 PM	#13
Blackshirts Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Location: Arizona Posts: 572	Re: New to rim fire .22 and not having a good go at it Well since it is a semi-auto Marlin it is probably a 60 or 795. If it is tube fed it is a 60, magazine fed it is a 795. If by it "only fired every other shot", you meant it chambered just fine but just did not fire when you pulled the trigger then it should come back in perfect order. If it chambers and all that then it is probably something simple that needs fixing. Maybe the firing pin/spring needed replacing. I have a 795 and love it. I run pretty much exclusively Federal Lightning($1.47/50 at Walmart) and it loves them.

06-11-2011, 09:34 PM	#15
American Leader Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Iowa Contributor Posts: 1,630	Re: New to rim fire .22 and not having a good go at it Welcome aboard Jubylives! like ka64 says, find what your rifle likes and all will most likely be fine. You will be glad you got into .22's because you can release a lot of pent up disires to shoot for a relatively low cost. It sorta subsidizes your more expensive firearms. I love'em alot! I'll bet you eventually up grade your choice, I own several but prefer centerfire, however, shooting many rounds of anything keeps you sharp. Happy shooting!

06-11-2011, 09:41 PM	#16
woolleyworm TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: SW Fort Worth Contributor Posts: 4,882	Re: New to rim fire .22 and not having a good go at it lots of good advice; I'd second the use of Federal or CCI ammo. Marlins are great guns; just gotta keep'em clean. My first bit of advice would be : with any new firearm, it should be broken down, cleaned and then test fired. Manufacturers ship them with copious amounts of grease and protectants that must be cleaned. My suggestion is that if the LGS where you bought them has a bench; ask them to show you how to take it down and clean it. You're buying a couple of guns from them, they ought to be willing enough to take 20 min and give you a quick run down. Glad to have you on the forum and lookin fwd to hearing how it all turns out ! Semper Fi, Woolley __________________ . What are you gonna do, talk the alien to death? -- (on Sigourney Weaver's worry about Guns in Aliens) "Safety is something that happens between your ears, not something you hold in your hands." "I carry a small gun to compensate for my huge Blue press." .

06-11-2011, 09:55 PM	#17
williamd Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: SoCal Posts: 772	Re: New to rim fire .22 and not having a good go at it Ditto lanceb152 on ammo. Federal red box works okay for me. Eley used to but since Remington bought them it is not the quality it used to be. That Eley Black Box of old in my Walther Olympic KKJ was incredible. Brought home the bacon from lots of shoots. I have found the Ruger 10/22 impossible to beat and very accurate for a relative inexpensive 22rf. Also have an OLD Stevens M87D that seldom malfunctions after 50 years. But, admit that for accuracy I go bolt. My GrandSon insists on the semi and a fast trigger. Wonders why he does not have bullseyes, too? __________________ "Outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns!" But, we are moving that direction. NRA Benefactor, Vet VN '64-'65 Never sell a gun or a car and you can retire right!!

06-11-2011, 11:19 PM	#19
jubylives Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 25	Re: New to rim fire .22 and not having a good go at it That's where I am at. I went and looked at some older ones today actually. I do prefer bolt action. I went with this orignally to shoot with my kids. I was thinking of the guns like cars. Easier to teach them to drive the car if it is an automatic instead of a stick. I took it in and he cleaned it up and said there was some burs that needed filed down. I guess I will find out tomorrow. Thanks for the advice fellers. Jeremy

06-11-2011, 11:22 PM	#20
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: New to rim fire .22 and not having a good go at it I've a lithgow model 1 .22 older than i am , its got more bunnies foxes roo's and goats than anything else i own , i love it ..

06-12-2011, 09:49 AM	#23
williamd Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: SoCal Posts: 772	Re: New to rim fire .22 and not having a good go at it If you move back to semi's ... many do not like them but I have a Nylon66 that was the first in the TX Panhandle (~1960) that still shoots great and has been 100% reliable. See them used in the $250 range. Even decent used single shots near that out here on the LEFT coast. Whatever, enjoy! __________________ "Outlaw guns and only outlaws will have guns!" But, we are moving that direction. NRA Benefactor, Vet VN '64-'65 Never sell a gun or a car and you can retire right!!

06-12-2011, 05:58 PM	#24
fishslayerbob Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Southern Kalifornia Posts: 2	Re: New to rim fire .22 and not having a good go at it I don't think you can stress enough that a semiauto needs to be fed what it likes to eat. The round that my buddies use with absolute success is Federal gameshock or champion in their semis. You want to stick with high velocity for sure like was mentioned before for good cycling. Just go out and buy a box each of as many brands as you can find (50 rounders) and fire them at a 50 yd. target to check for accuracy while you're checking cycling and kill two birds with one round. You'll be surprised at the accuracy difference! My bolt and pump rifles do not do well in the accuracy department with any of the hyper velocity stuff. Anyway, half the fun will be the quest for the perfect round for each rifle, kinda like when we find the perfect handload for our center fires. Have lots of fun!!! fishslayerbob

06-12-2011, 06:19 PM	#25
jubylives Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 25	Re: New to rim fire .22 and not having a good go at it Got my gun back from the shop. It shoots very well now. I did go abd but a box of the CCI ammo. There is a huge differenc between CCI and others. The sound was different and the shell extracted alot harder and actually flew away further then the Winchester and remington rounds I had left. Looks like I will be a CCI ammo guy from here on out. We were hitting clay pigeons at 100 yards much more often. Thanks for the tip on that ammo.