Convulsions of hunted animals information request

[tmaly33]

I wanted to ask: Has someone contact to farmers/butchers, who work with the big animals?

[JLA]

We have our cattle and hogs slaughtered at Hamiltons in Weatherford TX. I can ask if they wouldnt mind a casual filming of the process next time we have one done..

[Bigbill]

We shot a blackbear that was really close to us and the bullet cut the arteries in the neck and it dropped and bled out very fast. It only rolled over on its back very slowly and it as dead that quick on the spot. No shakes or even tired to get up in anyway. In my ballastics tests my 30-06 speer magnum mag tip 180gr bullets opened up in wet sand and the jackets were shrapnel. Then we took the 30-06 bear hunting and the real field test with the same results in wet sand.

[tmaly33]

Originally Posted by Bigbill

We shot a blackbear that was really close to us and the bullet cut the arteries in the neck and it dropped and bled out very fast. It only rolled over on its back very slowly and it as dead that quick on the spot. No shakes or even tired to get up in anyway. In my ballastics tests my 30-06 speer magnum mag tip 180gr bullets opened up in wet sand and the jackets were shrapnel. Then we took the 30-06 bear hunting and the real field test with the same results in wet sand.

It is unusual. When the blood pressure drops, the spine makes strong contractions of large muscles to pump more blood to the brain. That's why pigs do kick a lot in the slaughterhouses during the bleeding. (and make the animals protectors mad althought they're dead techically)

[jindydiver]

Originally Posted by jack404

Folks, G'day

The top post is by Doc Tom , and i'd like to explain a bit and ask you to help him if you can

These folks are doing research on a few different things , what we know is that when something dies of total brain stoppage ( like when i put a .223 through a roo) the spine can take over some nearve responces , almost like the spine is a second brain , and in some ways it is but oly on a nerve level

the Doc's have realise many painkillers could be much more effective if used against the spine instead of the brain and for much longer without people becomeing used to the effects or addicted as the spine does not have the same level of complexity as the brain

We received a request from this fellow on our local Aussie forum and I am wondering who this doctor is. You seem to know a lot about him so maybe you could answer a couple of questions on his behalf.
I would like to know the doctors name, where he works, and get some references to papers he has already published.

It all sounds like a noble cause, but I can see footage on the evening news of animals kicking away with half a head and the commentator making comments about the cruel hunters and their lust for cruel activities leading them to film an animal in distress rather than put it out of it's misery.
Without knowing the bona fides of the people this footage will be sent to we can not have any idea that this wont happen.

Can you clear this up for us?

[jack404]

Jindy Tom is legit , he's from europe a clinic in a research univercity , if you wish full details i'm happy to pass em along , he is legit and doing good work but sadly is hunted but the animal lib and other wacko's

laws dont allow him to do this in the lab , so he's doing his best to complete the study

the goal is a new range of pain killers that work in a new way , based off what they have been learning , the pain killers are of great interest to military and emergency work ..

the footage wont be published if you dont want and you can send it anonymously if you wish , i've a few folks on this now but the more them better and the sooner they get the info they need

send him a PM and discuss it , remember english aint his first language , but he's straight up eh and the work this group he's a part of has already come up with a couple new things to help folks , but its the nerve reaction thats hinting at why folks still die of shock when they are basically stable ( and one of the things they are trying to stop )

my understanding is if they get the info and they get it right they'll go and apply to test it on critters under surgical care ( vet's ) then if thats ok and looking as they think they'll go on to trying to help people ..

shock and post trauma nerve reactions are still a big killer in combat troops , and if this can save one digger , i reckon its a bottler its a way off yet .. but there it is

if you can help please do mate , maybe it'll be one of our mates who ends up benifiting but remember its very contravertial ( in Australia the greenies would go NUTZ) so yeah you can keep it dark ..

i was contacted by a aussie doc at first from Concord repat.. that may let you know what the go is but will PM you with further

cheers eh

PS no animal in distress vids are wanted , they need clean kill shots ONLY that result in the tremors , the animal is not feeling , it is dead , but the spinal nerves are reacting , this is whats needed , not any animal suffering

if thats what they wanted i would not take part ..

[Country101]

I'm going to be trapping hogs and I'm sure I will shoot the big ones in the trap, so I should have a good chance to film some kicking and a flopping. If they ever start going into the trap that is.....

[jindydiver]

Originally Posted by jack404

Jindy Tom is legit , he's from europe a clinic in a research univercity , if you wish full details i'm happy to pass em along , he is legit and doing good work but sadly is hunted but the animal lib and other wacko's

laws dont allow him to do this in the lab , so he's doing his best to complete the study

the goal is a new range of pain killers that work in a new way , based off what they have been learning , the pain killers are of great interest to military and emergency work ..

the footage wont be published if you dont want and you can send it anonymously if you wish , i've a few folks on this now but the more them better and the sooner they get the info they need

send him a PM and discuss it , remember english aint his first language , but he's straight up eh and the work this group he's a part of has already come up with a couple new things to help folks , but its the nerve reaction thats hinting at why folks still die of shock when they are basically stable ( and one of the things they are trying to stop )

my understanding is if they get the info and they get it right they'll go and apply to test it on critters under surgical care ( vet's ) then if thats ok and looking as they think they'll go on to trying to help people ..

shock and post trauma nerve reactions are still a big killer in combat troops , and if this can save one digger , i reckon its a bottler its a way off yet .. but there it is

if you can help please do mate , maybe it'll be one of our mates who ends up benifiting but remember its very contravertial ( in Australia the greenies would go NUTZ) so yeah you can keep it dark ..

i was contacted by a aussie doc at first from Concord repat.. that may let you know what the go is but will PM you with further

cheers eh

PS no animal in distress vids are wanted , they need clean kill shots ONLY that result in the tremors , the animal is not feeling , it is dead , but the spinal nerves are reacting , this is whats needed , not any animal suffering

if thats what they wanted i would not take part ..

That all sounds real great, but it can all still be a con and the only way we can know it is not is by knowing who will receive this footage. Assurances from someone who doesn't even have a name yet don't cut it at all.

[jindydiver]

Lets keep it civil, you are capable of that at least aren't you?

The doctor is anonymous and while he remains so his claims made to you are worthless, as is your passing them on. I just thought that seeing as you are touting for him you would know a little bit about him. You didn't have to reply till you had something useful, and you still don't have to reply, if it is too much trouble for you then you can just leave it to the doctor to reply for himself.

And honestly, if a couple of questions from a truck driver, no matter where he lives, is going to upset you so much you need to send me PM's swearing at me you probably need to have a good hard look at yourself

[tmaly33]

Originally Posted by jindydiver

Lets keep it civil, you are capable of that at least aren't you?

The doctor is anonymous and while he remains so his claims made to you are worthless, as is your passing them on. I just thought that seeing as you are touting for him you would know a little bit about him. You didn't have to reply till you had something useful, and you still don't have to reply, if it is too much trouble for you then you can just leave it to the doctor to reply for himself.

And honestly, if a couple of questions from a truck driver, no matter where he lives, is going to upset you so much you need to send me PM's swearing at me you probably need to have a good hard look at yourself

Hey, I just sent a PM to you at Aussie forum with the contact to server owner. You may ask him if he gave me the permission to collect such content on his server.

[tmaly33]

Originally Posted by jack404

laws dont allow him to do this in the lab , so he's doing his best to complete the study

Laws does, but I just don't want to kill the animals for the research.
And it's pretty ****### accomplished to get the permission to film in slaughterhouses, because their owners are stressed by all those animal rights protectors.

[jindydiver]

Originally Posted by tmaly33

Hey, I just sent a PM to you at Aussie forum with the contact to server owner. You may ask him if he gave me the permission to collect such content on his server.

This is not something I care about. It doesn't answer any of the questions I posted.
I have sent a note to the Dean and the faculty Sub Dean at the Charles University to check for myself.

[jack404]

listen bud you come here make demands and i explain i'll get you the info

you come back and your tone is that thats not good enough that your much more important to have to wait and refuse to answer who you are

so my friend i guess your just another self important public servant who thinks public servant tell people how high to jump and we must do it

so to be straight up with your your attituxde sucks , your the kind who threatens people and then screams copper when it all goes bad

start screaming

sorry tom , we have atoo many like this here nowdays , demand everything but never explain why , even when you give them all the info they are too lazy to actually check as all they want its to be a BIG man by showing how they can stuff you about , they dont do anything but complain, dont create anything but trouble, and know they are better than everyone eles , i guess its a sign of the times



if he had of come and explained " hey got this strange post on XXX forum .. can you let me know what you know ? i'm XXX contact me here thanks" it'd be no problem , but no this pratt is to far above people like us sooo

i dunno who he is what forum and dont think i'll ever know as these prats dont explain such things to the proll's, they just issue edicts and demand s

[jindydiver]

Jesus mate, take a chill pill
No demands, I just asked some questions (politely I thought too), and if this Doctor is on the up and up it shouldn't be any problem for him to answer. There is no need for you to get upset at all.

[jack404]

i said i'd get back to you , for now i'm 800 feet up the side of mount keira waiting for a accident or something ( SES know what that is??? and here till the storm is done ) but you come back that thats not good enough for you , well tough ..

i'm sick of the self important attitude coming outta canberra by the important people like PUBLIC SERVANTS

but obviously you now have a contact for Tom so i suggest you follow that up ,

cause i'm done with wankers like you , got find a magnifying glass and some pepper and amuse yaself till tom gets back to ya

and as for info i still dunno who you are, what forum, nothing and guess what ?? now i dont care either ..

[JLA]

Originally Posted by jindydiver

Lets keep it civil, you are capable of that at least aren't you?

The doctor is anonymous and while he remains so his claims made to you are worthless, as is your passing them on. I just thought that seeing as you are touting for him you would know a little bit about him. You didn't have to reply till you had something useful, and you still don't have to reply, if it is too much trouble for you then you can just leave it to the doctor to reply for himself.

And honestly, if a couple of questions from a truck driver, no matter where he lives, is going to upset you so much you need to send me PM's swearing at me you probably need to have a good hard look at yourself

I believe in the cause, I could care less what tree hugger gets ahold of the footage IF indeed they ever did, and im gonna be killing animals anyway so I might as well make the best of it for someone like doc tom to use and help some folks in the service that put themselves in harms way for the sake of us.. I also believe the type of research being done here requires a bit of anonymity to achieve. So I have but 1 suggestion for you brother. If it isnt good enough for you, simply dont participate. And dont turn this thread into a giant flame war over what MIGHT happen if some bleeding heart whacko gets ahold of the footage and turns it into something it isnt. If you truly want no part of any such reprocussions, and I can see a legitimate possibility of it, so your concerns are not un-warranted, then just dont participate in the research.. Its a simple solution to your problem and allows us to keep this thread on topic..

[Pete338]

Originally Posted by jack404

i said i'd get back to you , for now i'm 800 feet up the side of mount keira waiting for a accident or something ( SES know what that is??? and here till the storm is done ) but you come back that thats not good enough for you , well tough ..

i'm sick of the self important attitude coming outta canberra by the important people like PUBLIC SERVANTS

but obviously you now have a contact for Tom so i suggest you follow that up ,

cause i'm done with wankers like you , got find a magnifying glass and some pepper and amuse yaself till tom gets back to ya

and as for info i still dunno who you are, what forum, nothing and guess what ?? now i dont care either ..

G'day Jack, being an Aussie you'd know the sh+t that went down in the last couple of weeks, Aus. live beef exports have been suspended to Indonesia to the considerable detriment of hundreds of beef producers, transporters and allied industries.

This was done on the strength of a press release by a greeny anti gun anti every bloody thing mob that showed footage of some real "below average" slaughtering practises in Indonesia.

These people are committed to bringing all live exports to an end and then turn their attention to most things that hunters/family pet owners/etc etc hold dear.

(Have a look at animalsaustralia.org ......google it.....anti duck shooting/rodeos/meat chicken farming etc etc)

Does anyone really think the greenies went into the Indonesian Abbattoirs and honestly declared that they were out to bring the industries to their knees....They would have used subterfuge and lies to get in the door.

Our mate Tomas MALY has perhaps gained some trust and could be far from what he says he is.

The European countries have hundreds of abbattoirs and thousands of hunters where he could gather all the data he says he needs. He is of course IMO wanting 'less than perfect' animal deaths in video evidence form supplied by hunters that might show the alleged suffering of animals.

His whole story on this site and Aus (http://www.aushunt.com.au) is hardly credible to any subjective examination given what information is available to most of us in Aus. at this stage.

Doesn't look like he's getting much joy in Aus, what you fellas do, is of course entirely in your hands.

Hooroo for now.

[tmaly33]

I didn't want to start the flame war really.

I decided this way to collect the materials because I don't want to kill the animals for our experiments. Of course, I can buy few animals and the certified butcher, who will shoot them the bolt to their brains, but this is what I don't want to do.

I selected the Australia because this is the big country with many farms, where people are putting down big animals for other reasons already. I thought it will be easy to get some materials here.

[jindydiver]

Originally Posted by JLA

And dont turn this thread into a giant flame war

No flaming coming from me. The only person being rude on here is your mate Jack.

[jack404]

G'day Pete sorry but theres a side to this you aint aware of , i'll give you a bell later , i just got back in and just want a hot shower and some coffee

cheers

Tom sorry mate ..

jindy see you later

[JLA]

Originally Posted by jindydiver

No flaming coming from me. The only person being rude on here is your mate Jack.

I disagree jindy. Jack told you he would fill you in when he got back. Youve inflamed the conversation with a list of demands, which is fine and you were rather polite with them from what I read, just rather pushy.. But have a little patience. Jack brought Doc Tom here to see if the avid hunters here at TFF could help his research. So if you wish to help his cause then by all means please do, if not, then please allow us to keep things geared toward progressing his research, not arguing over the whos who and whats what of the matter.

[jack404]

never mind folks , sorry this got outta hand

i should know to do exactly what my betters demand of me in the new order
and do it within minutes of them demanding it too!! it dont matter that i tried to explain i did not have the info with me that i'd pass all i had along as soon as i could

i forgot though , its not good enough and for that i am sorry , i must remember that the elite types can demand the impossible and ridicule you when you cant do it and you cant say boo back otherwise they'll start ringing round trying to get you into strife

but i just never get it eh

thick is me , just thick

i must learn to bow to my betters

so sorry

[tmaly33]

Originally Posted by JLA

It was a miniature horse, approximately 450 pounds. He had gotten into the hay shed where I keep the bails for the beef heifers and had his fill and ended up with botulism. Needless to say it was destroying his brainstem slowly and the vet advised me to have him put to sleep.

By the way, how can the grass eating horse get the botulism?
And what were the symptoms?

[tmaly33]

Is this thread still open?

[jack404]

yes and a pressy for you ( sorry for the delay the big hunting season has just opened and got folks in the field now)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jEwG8...eature=related

this footage is from last years cull in the NT ..

0.20 the donkey in front , full frontal lobe blown away , but the movements..

contact the gent who posted this , he's on a donkey and camel cull now ..

he's happy to send you the unedited ... but not to post it , you can see the comments he gets from the edited version