WWII Photos and Documents - Page 6 - The Firearms Forum

SSMN · 07-15-2011, 06:10 PM

To the Rhine

SSMN · 07-15-2011, 06:20 PM

To the Siegfried Line

SSMN · 07-15-2011, 11:04 PM

From Rhine to Rhine

SSMN · 07-15-2011, 11:32 PM

Most of us who are not familiar with the composition of an Armored Division think of tanks and not much more. (At least I did). A Division is composed of every type of unit necessary to perform a totally independent operation.

With more than 15,000 personnel, the units required to make up a division are many and varied. Including:

Tank Battalions (naturally)
Cavalry (scout) units
Field Artillery
Engineers
Maintenance
Armored Infantry
Headquarters Companies
Signal Units
Medical Battalion
Anti Aircraft
Tank Destroyer Units
Bridge Building Units
Quartermaster Truck units
Field Artillery
Signal Heavy Construction

They all traveled together and all had to work in coordination. To simply change direction was a major feat. There are references in after action reports of one Combat Command "wheeling around" another to change direction without disrupting the flow of men and materials of the neighboring Command.

The following is the actual unit makeup of the 11th Armored Division.

SSMN · 07-16-2011, 07:25 AM

Pulling the Dragon's Teeth

SSMN · 07-16-2011, 02:14 PM

Prum & Andernach

SSMN · 07-16-2011, 02:16 PM

Into Thuringia

SSMN · 07-16-2011, 02:20 PM

GI's and their Peep in front of the Walther factory the day after capture April 5, 1945

SSMN · 07-16-2011, 02:26 PM

Walther factory photos April 5, 1945

SSMN · 07-16-2011, 02:36 PM

Headquarters CP at Graffenwohr Infantry School

Marlin T · 07-16-2011, 04:00 PM

Wouldn't it be great to get a case of these in the mail?

SSMN · 07-16-2011, 04:07 PM

GI's from the 90th Infantry filled their pockets with guns, then filled their arms and their rucksacks. They soon realized that there was no way to carry them all and began passing them out to passing units in front of the factory.

SSMN · 07-17-2011, 08:20 AM

"My Peep and my SS prisoner"

It was common practice to have single prisoners sit out on the front of the Jeep when transporting in order to keep an eye on them. I don't think that I would have left an SS prisoner untended so close to a loaded machinegun while I backed off to photograph him.

John took possession of his PPK which I still have and featured in my book on SS guns.

SSMN · 07-17-2011, 03:17 PM

Titled "Von Graf in German officers uniform. Waldkirchen, Germany"

It's not Lt. Graf, nor a glimpse of Towhead that I find interesting. It is the glimpse of one of those new fangled VW Beetles "the Peoples Car" in the background.

Likely one of the first built.

SSMN · 07-17-2011, 03:42 PM

Fighting the war "By Ear"

Juker · 07-17-2011, 08:21 PM

I'm sure like many others here, I am captivated by these photos. I'm also an avid WWII buff and researcher - the only reason I don't comment on every photo is I don't want to interrupt the flow!

Keep 'em comin', brother!!

SSMN · 07-17-2011, 08:29 PM

Thanks Joe,
I like to hear a few comments to make sure someone is out there,

jack404 · 07-17-2011, 08:31 PM

same here . SSMN cheers a heap eh ..

SSMN · 07-17-2011, 08:51 PM

Great...I have a task for you all. Since this is a Military Arms and History Forum, I am going to post a couple of top secret (Geheime) letters for everyone's review. One written a few months before D-Day, the other a few days before D-Day.These have not seen the light of day for more than 65 years. They will give you an idea what the other side was doing while we were preparing for the invasion.

Lets see who might provide a good translation and fill everyone in on their contents.

The first is from General Field Marshall Keitel OKW Chief of Staff (or written on his behalf). The second is prepared on behalf of Gruppenfuhrer Muller head of the Gestapo.

Enjoy

Juker · 07-17-2011, 08:58 PM

I've been PMing with SSMN about that car in his "Von Graf" photo above, and he kindly encouraged me to post here on his thread.

It struck me that it's not a VW Kafer (Beetle), because they sported a split rear window until 1952. And the Kafers all had a slotted vertical vent running below that rear window; also doesn't appear to have a 'trunk' (engine cover).

The Germans requisitioned thousands of civilian vehicles from dozens of car makers. So, because I love a good mystery and I'm an avid WWII researcher, I've been digging through books all afternoon, and am fairly certain it's an uber-rare 1939 Steyr Type 55, a.k.a. "Steyr Baby". Found one photo in a book, and finally found this pic online.

SSMN's pic is actually even more exciting than a VW photo. INCREDIBLY rare.

SSMN · 07-17-2011, 09:04 PM

This is 8 Prinz Albrecht Strasse Gestapo/RSHA Headquarters in Berlin where the second letter would have been typed by one of these fine gentlemen. Gestapo/RSHA clerk/typists.

SSMN · 07-17-2011, 09:07 PM

Joe,
I think you're correct. What I thought was a square rear window with an engine air intake below it was a track to slide the roof back with a vent below it as in your blue baby.

Juker · 07-17-2011, 10:26 PM

I typed the second document into google translator, using German to English.

It appears to be a memo discussing distrubution of captured Allied weapons, MP being machine pistols, and SD being Sicherheitsdienst, the nasty "intelligence" agency of the SS and Nazi party.

It doesn't all translate, but it's close:

Gene. St d H. applied for distribution by the English. Army planes dropped proprietary union captured weapons (hand and especially the MP by Maschinenewaffen Ob.West according priority needs in the West.

According to current regulation, the loot was awarded to the person who makes them, if it is not a random act and weapons available to any other branch of the Wehrmacht are property. Until the time of adoption of the current command, the number of discarded MP 300-400 per month, whereas now they Mil.Bfh after release boss. France a month to about 4.000 M.P. should be grown. A very large proportion of these weapons flows to the SD too.

The large shortfall in M.P. offer the Force, through new production in the foreseeable future can not be made up, it makes the enemy by dropping notwandig kunftig flying over the occupied western areas resulting hand-and machine guns to the Ob. West to offer for further distribution. That the urgent needs of the S.D. Please take into it will be, will this be ensured.

It is requested to approve the new rules and to know soon (CHST Mogli fernmundlich advance).

The chief of the army in behalf Oberkammandos

SSMN · 07-17-2011, 11:00 PM

Close enough. In the spring of 1944 there were arguments going on between the Wehrmacht and the SS as to who should be entitled to take possession of weapons that had been captured after being air dropped to partisan forces mainly in France.

I wonder if they had any clue as to why such massive amounts of allied ordnance was turning up in France. Of course they expected the invasion at any time and for me these air drops would have confirmed that it was imminent.

There was a central collection point in Paris and then they were shipped in railroad cars to Stutthof Lager near Danzig (now Gedansk, Poland) for reconditioning and distribution to SS and Wehrmacht forces. They documented everything from Sten machine pistols (most common) to Colts, Smith & Wessons, M-1 Carbines and M-1 Rifles and just about every other type of firearm imaginable. They also had captured huge amounts of ammunition for all of them.

Another document or two and we'll get back to the 11th Armored.

jack404 · 07-17-2011, 11:25 PM

Germany did a lot of weapon recycling with the Soviets weapons

PPsH 41's and 43's especially the nazi's had a love of the MP

a gent i met in Russia told me of his surprise in taking weapons from the battle area finding tommy guns with german markings and theres one in the museum in St Petersburg ( Stalingrad )

07-15-2011, 06:10 PM	#126
SSMN Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ely, Minnesota Posts: 507	Re: WWII Photos and Documents To the Rhine Attached Images Last edited by SSMN; 07-15-2011 at 06:19 PM..

07-15-2011, 06:20 PM	#127
SSMN Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ely, Minnesota Posts: 507	Re: WWII Photos and Documents To the Siegfried Line Attached Images

07-15-2011, 11:04 PM	#128
SSMN Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ely, Minnesota Posts: 507	Re: WWII Photos and Documents From Rhine to Rhine Attached Images

07-15-2011, 11:32 PM	#129
SSMN Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ely, Minnesota Posts: 507	Re: WWII Photos and Documents Most of us who are not familiar with the composition of an Armored Division think of tanks and not much more. (At least I did). A Division is composed of every type of unit necessary to perform a totally independent operation. With more than 15,000 personnel, the units required to make up a division are many and varied. Including: Tank Battalions (naturally) Cavalry (scout) units Field Artillery Engineers Maintenance Armored Infantry Headquarters Companies Signal Units Medical Battalion Anti Aircraft Tank Destroyer Units Bridge Building Units Quartermaster Truck units Field Artillery Signal Heavy Construction They all traveled together and all had to work in coordination. To simply change direction was a major feat. There are references in after action reports of one Combat Command "wheeling around" another to change direction without disrupting the flow of men and materials of the neighboring Command. The following is the actual unit makeup of the 11th Armored Division. Attached Images Last edited by SSMN; 07-23-2011 at 11:18 PM..

07-16-2011, 07:25 AM	#130
SSMN Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ely, Minnesota Posts: 507	Re: WWII Photos and Documents Pulling the Dragon's Teeth Attached Images

07-16-2011, 02:14 PM	#131
SSMN Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ely, Minnesota Posts: 507	Re: WWII Photos and Documents Prum & Andernach Attached Images

07-16-2011, 02:16 PM	#132
SSMN Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ely, Minnesota Posts: 507	Re: WWII Photos and Documents Into Thuringia Attached Images

07-16-2011, 02:20 PM	#133
SSMN Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ely, Minnesota Posts: 507	Re: WWII Photos and Documents GI's and their Peep in front of the Walther factory the day after capture April 5, 1945 Attached Images

07-16-2011, 02:26 PM	#134
SSMN Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ely, Minnesota Posts: 507	Re: WWII Photos and Documents Walther factory photos April 5, 1945 Attached Images

07-16-2011, 02:36 PM	#135
SSMN Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ely, Minnesota Posts: 507	Re: WWII Photos and Documents Headquarters CP at Graffenwohr Infantry School Attached Images

07-16-2011, 04:00 PM	#136
Marlin T Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: New Mexico Posts: 7,857	Re: WWII Photos and Documents Wouldn't it be great to get a case of these in the mail? __________________ "But the simple truth--born of experience--is that tyranny thrives best where government need not fear the wrath of an armed people." Judge Alex Kozinski - United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from its government. - Thomas Paine Did you read todays GOOD shooting? >>>KEEPANDBEARARMS.COM <<<

07-16-2011, 04:07 PM	#137
SSMN Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ely, Minnesota Posts: 507	Re: WWII Photos and Documents GI's from the 90th Infantry filled their pockets with guns, then filled their arms and their rucksacks. They soon realized that there was no way to carry them all and began passing them out to passing units in front of the factory. Last edited by SSMN; 07-23-2011 at 11:20 PM..

07-17-2011, 08:20 AM	#138
SSMN Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ely, Minnesota Posts: 507	Re: WWII Photos and Documents "My Peep and my SS prisoner" It was common practice to have single prisoners sit out on the front of the Jeep when transporting in order to keep an eye on them. I don't think that I would have left an SS prisoner untended so close to a loaded machinegun while I backed off to photograph him. John took possession of his PPK which I still have and featured in my book on SS guns. Attached Images

07-17-2011, 03:17 PM	#139
SSMN Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ely, Minnesota Posts: 507	Re: WWII Photos and Documents Titled "Von Graf in German officers uniform. Waldkirchen, Germany" It's not Lt. Graf, nor a glimpse of Towhead that I find interesting. It is the glimpse of one of those new fangled VW Beetles "the Peoples Car" in the background. Likely one of the first built. Attached Images Last edited by SSMN; 07-17-2011 at 03:19 PM..

07-17-2011, 03:42 PM	#140
SSMN Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ely, Minnesota Posts: 507	Re: WWII Photos and Documents Fighting the war "By Ear" Attached Images

07-17-2011, 08:21 PM	#141
Juker Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Land of Lincoln Contributor Posts: 2,872	Re: WWII Photos and Documents I'm sure like many others here, I am captivated by these photos. I'm also an avid WWII buff and researcher - the only reason I don't comment on every photo is I don't want to interrupt the flow! Keep 'em comin', brother!! __________________ SHOOT FIRST. SHOOT SECOND. MOST IMPORTANTLY, BE THE MAN WHO'S SHOOTING LAST.

07-17-2011, 08:29 PM	#142
SSMN Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ely, Minnesota Posts: 507	Re: WWII Photos and Documents Thanks Joe, I like to hear a few comments to make sure someone is out there,

07-17-2011, 08:31 PM	#143
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: WWII Photos and Documents same here . SSMN cheers a heap eh ..

07-17-2011, 08:51 PM	#144
SSMN Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ely, Minnesota Posts: 507	Re: WWII Photos and Documents Great...I have a task for you all. Since this is a Military Arms and History Forum, I am going to post a couple of top secret (Geheime) letters for everyone's review. One written a few months before D-Day, the other a few days before D-Day.These have not seen the light of day for more than 65 years. They will give you an idea what the other side was doing while we were preparing for the invasion. Lets see who might provide a good translation and fill everyone in on their contents. The first is from General Field Marshall Keitel OKW Chief of Staff (or written on his behalf). The second is prepared on behalf of Gruppenfuhrer Muller head of the Gestapo. Enjoy Attached Images Last edited by SSMN; 07-17-2011 at 09:21 PM..

07-17-2011, 08:58 PM	#145
Juker Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Land of Lincoln Contributor Posts: 2,872	Re: WWII Photos and Documents I've been PMing with SSMN about that car in his "Von Graf" photo above, and he kindly encouraged me to post here on his thread. It struck me that it's not a VW Kafer (Beetle), because they sported a split rear window until 1952. And the Kafers all had a slotted vertical vent running below that rear window; also doesn't appear to have a 'trunk' (engine cover). The Germans requisitioned thousands of civilian vehicles from dozens of car makers. So, because I love a good mystery and I'm an avid WWII researcher, I've been digging through books all afternoon, and am fairly certain it's an uber-rare 1939 Steyr Type 55, a.k.a. "Steyr Baby". Found one photo in a book, and finally found this pic online. SSMN's pic is actually even more exciting than a VW photo. INCREDIBLY rare. Attached Images __________________ SHOOT FIRST. SHOOT SECOND. MOST IMPORTANTLY, BE THE MAN WHO'S SHOOTING LAST. Last edited by Juker; 07-17-2011 at 10:51 PM..

07-17-2011, 09:04 PM	#146
SSMN Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ely, Minnesota Posts: 507	Re: WWII Photos and Documents This is 8 Prinz Albrecht Strasse Gestapo/RSHA Headquarters in Berlin where the second letter would have been typed by one of these fine gentlemen. Gestapo/RSHA clerk/typists. Attached Images Last edited by SSMN; 07-17-2011 at 09:08 PM..

07-17-2011, 09:07 PM	#147
SSMN Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ely, Minnesota Posts: 507	Re: WWII Photos and Documents Joe, I think you're correct. What I thought was a square rear window with an engine air intake below it was a track to slide the roof back with a vent below it as in your blue baby. Last edited by SSMN; 07-17-2011 at 09:09 PM..

07-17-2011, 10:26 PM	#148
Juker Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Land of Lincoln Contributor Posts: 2,872	Re: WWII Photos and Documents I typed the second document into google translator, using German to English. It appears to be a memo discussing distrubution of captured Allied weapons, MP being machine pistols, and SD being Sicherheitsdienst, the nasty "intelligence" agency of the SS and Nazi party. It doesn't all translate, but it's close: Gene. St d H. applied for distribution by the English. Army planes dropped proprietary union captured weapons (hand and especially the MP by Maschinenewaffen Ob.West according priority needs in the West. According to current regulation, the loot was awarded to the person who makes them, if it is not a random act and weapons available to any other branch of the Wehrmacht are property. Until the time of adoption of the current command, the number of discarded MP 300-400 per month, whereas now they Mil.Bfh after release boss. France a month to about 4.000 M.P. should be grown. A very large proportion of these weapons flows to the SD too. The large shortfall in M.P. offer the Force, through new production in the foreseeable future can not be made up, it makes the enemy by dropping notwandig kunftig flying over the occupied western areas resulting hand-and machine guns to the Ob. West to offer for further distribution. That the urgent needs of the S.D. Please take into it will be, will this be ensured. It is requested to approve the new rules and to know soon (CHST Mogli fernmundlich advance). The chief of the army in behalf Oberkammandos __________________ SHOOT FIRST. SHOOT SECOND. MOST IMPORTANTLY, BE THE MAN WHO'S SHOOTING LAST.

07-17-2011, 11:00 PM	#149
SSMN Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: Ely, Minnesota Posts: 507	Re: WWII Photos and Documents Close enough. In the spring of 1944 there were arguments going on between the Wehrmacht and the SS as to who should be entitled to take possession of weapons that had been captured after being air dropped to partisan forces mainly in France. I wonder if they had any clue as to why such massive amounts of allied ordnance was turning up in France. Of course they expected the invasion at any time and for me these air drops would have confirmed that it was imminent. There was a central collection point in Paris and then they were shipped in railroad cars to Stutthof Lager near Danzig (now Gedansk, Poland) for reconditioning and distribution to SS and Wehrmacht forces. They documented everything from Sten machine pistols (most common) to Colts, Smith & Wessons, M-1 Carbines and M-1 Rifles and just about every other type of firearm imaginable. They also had captured huge amounts of ammunition for all of them. Another document or two and we'll get back to the 11th Armored. Attached Images

07-17-2011, 11:25 PM	#150
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: WWII Photos and Documents Germany did a lot of weapon recycling with the Soviets weapons PPsH 41's and 43's especially the nazi's had a love of the MP a gent i met in Russia told me of his surprise in taking weapons from the battle area finding tommy guns with german markings and theres one in the museum in St Petersburg ( Stalingrad )