NRA works in mysterious ways

[RedHawk]

I have researched it over and over and yes sometimes it seems that the NRA is backstabbing themselves and the community ,but if you look at the big picture drastic steps sometimes need to be taken , they have to take the bad with the good, you know like when (an example) a politician writes a 40% increase in there COLA's on page 36 ,paragraph 4 regarding the passage of a new Pro gun law (fictitious, folks relax) ,what would be the better of the arguments , trash there cola's or trash the gun law? It baffles me sometimes when I read the legislation that the NRA supports , you have to read it with a microscope and it has to be read in Legal description in order for it to make sense!

Trust me , if you just read it like the newspaper its gonna make you mad!!Take your time and thoroughly read it , dissect it !

This is a game and its called politics , if we're GONNA beat the anti gunners we have to play there game and we have to play there game BETTER THAN THEM!

[Bobitis]

Hawk, this is a very arguable matter that pops up now and again.

Ya love 'em or ya hate 'em.

50 years ago, the NRA had its purpose. It has since degraded to a political machine bent on the board members greed.

They've done much more damage than good. Capitulation has never been an option when the 2nd is concerned in my opinion. Yet the NRA has given up inch by inch. Baby steps will lead us all off the cliff. It's all about the money, and they know the hand that feeds them. Too bad the members dont' understand the underlying issues.

That is all from here.

[Marlin T]

Originally Posted by Bobitis

Capitulation has never been an option when the 2nd is concerned in my opinion. Yet the NRA has given up inch by inch. .

That is all from here.

That about sums it up right there.

If you truly believe in our Rights support somebody that also truly believes in our Rights like the GOA for example.

[Double D]

I am a life member. I dont agree with alot of what they do. But they are still the only org. that puts pressure on libs concerning gun control. When another org steps up with more power, let me know. Until then, I have to stand with them. And, I might add, division is deadly. A house divided cannot stand. Pro gunners better stick together. Especially now.

[carver]

I agree with you again Double D! Everyone jumped the NRA for not getting behind Rand Paul's bill, amendment # 363, but when you look at what the NRA points out in that bill, you understand where they are coming from.

"While well-intentioned, the language of this amendment as currently drafted raises potential problems for gun owners, in that it encourages the government to use provisions in current law that allow access to firearms records without reasonable cause, warrant, or judicial oversight of any kind".

[RedHawk]

Thats my point carver entirely ! If your gonna play you gotta play there game and you gotta play better at there game!

For those of you who dont believe in the NRA and think that some lil .org that has 50,000 members will have a voice in congress , wake up , get out of that dream , Im sorry but the little 2nd amendment foundation is a peanut gallery of bs , they have no say in congress , they dont have the power , yes the NRA is a political machine and it is all about money because without the politics and money , you have nothing more than another progun group that talks alot but cant ever get anything done ! Theres no other PRO GUN organization on the planet that can get things done, name one group that has the money and political clout to sway the demoboobs in anything???

There are none , like DD said we dont have to agree with everything they do , I didnt agree with everything Reagan said or did , but the whole picture was worth believing in him !

Great point DD :

"A HOUSE DIVIDED CANNOT STAND"

Those of you who are against the NRA , might as well turn in your guns to the anti's now , we really dont need "wishy washys" on our side, I think if you look at the smaller orgs that you might tout , you'll find that the leadership is all NRA, they would have to be , it would be ignorant to have a pro gun organization and not be on board with the NRA!

You think Charlton Heston worked for free? He was big dollar , but he brought in millions more , is Wayne worth the millions he earns ? read what I said , he EARNS every nickel , who else has his kind clout in Washington ? He is the premier Lobbyist!!! Its there game folks , if we want the brightest minds we have to pay for them , if you owned a business , would you hire all the losers in town just to save a few dollars? Or would you hire the best? Just think if your local Police department just hired the guys that past the written test? Wow , you would have some professionals wouldnt you?

Im sorry and I dont mean to bark , but some issues have become increasingly passionate to me (Our way of life is at stake here) , this is one of them , our rights could and will be infringed upon , without the help of the NRA , IT WILL HAPPEN ,and it isnt just the 2nd amendment at stake!!!! If the 2nd can be beaten , why not the 3rd ? the 4th? etc,etc!!!

Alot is at stake gents!

[hogger129]

I won a year's membership here. I am really considering becoming a life member. Do you have to be a life member to go to their dinners & rallies? Or do you just have to be a member?

[Double D]

Redhawk, sent you a pm....

[graehaven]

Originally Posted by RedHawk

Those of you who are against the NRA , might as well turn in your guns to the anti's now , we really dont need "wishy washys" on our side,

That statement is ridiculous. Just because someone has a differing opinion on this issue does NOT mean they're wishy washy on the 2nd Amendment. In fact, I would say they are actually a more ardent supporter/defender of the 2nd Amendment right. They see compromise as a path that leads to a loss of rights ultimately, and I think that case can be made concerning the NRA's actions of late. Just because they are the biggest guy on the playground doesn't mean they are right or doing what they do for the right reasons.

If you want "wishy washy" on the 2nd Amendment and its interpretation, one only has to look at our Supreme Court. They are a major FAIL in that department.

[Marlin T]

Redhawk check out this video from the SAF's Alan Gura.

http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/show...&highlight=SAF

As he illustrates, it is the NRA that is wisshy wasshy when it comes to a God Given Right.

[RedHawk]

well Im certain the anti gun lobby could come up with a dozen reasons why the NRA is no good for the population , and if you feel content just telling people how the 2nd amendment is your right , dont be offended when the government takes away that right , when Eric Holder gets his way because thousands maybe hundreds of thousands of people yelled and shouted , "the 2nd amendment is our right" , he doesnt listen ! You people who think the NRA is about making money and they dont do any good for us , get real people ! Who else is gonna stand up to congress? Can any one name a group that has the power to stand up to congress , the president , the IMF!!!!!

Feel free to put a tooth under your pillow at night and believe the tooth fairy will make your dreams come true, it doesnt happen!

The NRA in its easiest interpretation is a UNION for all gun owners , think about it , ther is no other UNION of gun owners as strong as the NRA, none! But if you dont want to give your money to them thats fine , but quit denigrating the NRA , those of us who believe know better , even those who dont believe like some of you in here (know better)!

[Bobitis]

Union.

That's perfect.

There are many threads on the NRA here. Some folks love 'em, and some folks can't stand them. I'll not do your research for you, as it's a learning experience.

The NRA may be the 800lb gorrila, but when the gorilla breaks my fingers, they hurt just the same. More so when I'm advocating it.

Lies, deception, and balderdash. It's all about the money

They claim they are a 'one' ammendment organization. Support the 2nd. Yet they completely disregard the 1st. The facts are out there.

The NRA has supported Harry Reid for years. Seriously? And when it came to the nomination of Elena Kagan for SCOTUS, they were silent. That's just a couple facts.

I may be out of line here, but if we don't have a 1st, why do we need a 2nd?

Forgive the anaolgy, but if my fingers are broken enough times, I won't be able to pull a trigger. Don't tell me it will only hurt for a little while and break 'em again. All the while asking me to contribute to the disfigurement.

Did I mention I hate this topic?

[Marlin T]

Originally Posted by RedHawk

But if you dont want to give your money to them thats fine , but quit denigrating the NRA , those of us who believe know better , even those who dont believe like some of you in here (know better)!

Pointing out the way the NRA has acted in the past is not denigrating them at all, nor does it make me or anybody anti-gun, unless of course they are.

If the NRA truly believed in our Natural Rights >>>THIS POST<<< would have never been made. I'm sure that after you read it you will see what some of us are talking about. It might even change your mind about supporting them, but if it doesn't, you will at least be aware of their history.


Yes the biggest may be the NRA but that does not make the best by any means. I do believe that in the recent court cases it has been the SAF that has had the biggest impact on our Second Amendment rights.

As BobItIs said, capitulation on a natural right is wrong.
Nothing can erase the NRA's history of capitulation, therefore I can not in good will support them.


I will not denigrate you for supporting them even if you decide not to change your position. As a matter of fact I will hope that members will stand up inside the NRA and stop them from capitulating in the future. Good luck and God Bless ya if you can.

[permafrost]

I'm with Redhawk. I think the shear numbers alone scare the antis and dems. The NRA isn't perfect, but I don't see people loosing elections and blaming the GOA or other organizations for beating them. They always say the NRA stopped them. As long as they fear the power of the NRA lobby I'm for 'em! Politics is politics, and the NRA knows how to play. Not knocking the others, they just don't currently have the power to effect election outcomes like the NRA membership.

[VinnieV1]

Redhawk hit the nail on the head when he points out that the NRA is the ONLY organization standing up to the government for our second ammendment rights. Congress listens to numbers and NRA has millions. Bill Clinton admitted that one of the problems he had with Congress was the NRA. If the NRA caused Clinton problems, that's reason enough to make me proud to be a member. All gun owners should be members if they want to KEEP their guns. Join the NRA today!

[pickenup]

While I can't say anything concerning the NRA, I hope I CAN say that I agree with the following statement, without getting into too much trouble.

Originally Posted by Marlin T

I do believe that in the recent court cases it has been the SAF that has had the biggest impact on our Second Amendment rights.

[Hatch]

There is a private range I would like to join which requires the most basic NRA membership to be accepted, and I will do this if I can join. Other than that, I have serious reservations about how the NRA spends the money we give them, how they are protecting our rights and how they are selectively deciding which laws to fight.

Sorry, I grew up an NRA member but I only do it now under duress.

[redwing carson]

Those of us who fought for gun rights over the years have heard all the negative NRA attacks. Way back in the 1950s when we were small and the Democrats , Labor Unions and Hollywood Elite tried to destroy us. We NRA members not only survived but grew from a few 1,000 to over 4 Million. We give or time and money to the cause of firearm freedom. Money wasted? What crap. We stand up to big Union dollars Democratic Party Dollars Hollywood
Dollars. Geo. Sorroes gives 1 million a year to kill the NRA. Those of you who
attack the NRA are not unique, your kind has always been there.

[Marlin T]

From yesterday

Does the NRA Support Gun Owners?

[Double D]

More of the same. Different day.

[RedHawk]

yep the NRA isnt concerned because garbage like this will never happen , theres no way in the world that a gun shop owner would have the time or even knowledge of people coming into his shop , its funny . The same flyers go out to Wal-Mart ,Target , Safeway ,Bestbuy and everyone else. I suppose the ACLU should get involved as well , but even they dont take this serious because it will never happen . Also instead of taking my word for it, look up Rand Paul's bill and seek the provisions laid out , he had to compromise on several factors of the bill , compromises that negate the bill entirely!

By the way Im not against the SAF either , but even a 5th grader can tell the difference between the NRA and the SAF , generally speaking if the SAF is against the NRA , going it alone , well I would cheer a victory for them as well, because there wont be many and the causes they fight will be swallowed , I suppose you think the SAF isnt out to make money , hell there a non-profit organization , I hate to break it to you guys but if a non-profit org doesnt make any money , it doesnt exist! Who's gonna pay the expenses? Who pays for the magazines, newsletters ,websites? who pays the lobbyists , oh dont tell me the saf doesnt employ lobbyist (pipe dream if think they dont) ! Money , yep the SAF is no different than the NRA , it costs money to have all these services , I dont agree with everything that they do , but like any other company in this country , you have a right even as a non member to see the disclosures of the NRA , IN OTHER WORDS IF YOU WANT TO KNOW WHERE THE MONEY GOES , ITS ALL OUT THERE ! Im sure the SAF has an open door as well , wouldnt want the anti's or democrats to think your hiding something would you?

It takes money to make money , very true , look at all the expense the NRA AFFORDS ITS MEMBERS , the insurance alone accounts for alot of it , but heres a great example of Washington politics , the NRA sends in 25 lobbyists , the SAF sends in one (if there lucky and he already paid graft to the politician he's swooning) , shear numbers will get a 1/3 of the NRA in the door ! You want to fight the battles in Washington you have to be prepared and you have to have money!!! You have to have Power!! and you have to have a war chest full of people! Which organization has that?

[carver]

As a Christian, I have witnessed to many people, and one thing I have learned is that once a person has made up their mind on a position, it's a real hard, up hill, task to get them to change their minds. So I won't try to change anyones opinion on this topic, but would like to add why I think the way I do. Read this statement from the NRA (some of you will, some of you won't).

"As often happens with complex issues, NRA's position on Sen. Rand Paul's defeated PATRIOT Act amendment is being mis-reported by those who either don't understand the facts, or prefer their own version of "facts."

This amendment was rejected by 85 Senators, which included many of the strongest Second Amendment supporters in the U.S. Senate. Unfortunately, Senator Paul chose not to approach us on this issue before moving ahead. His amendment, which only received 10 votes, was poorly drafted and could have resulted in more problems for gun owners than it attempted to fix. For this reason, the NRA did not take a position on the amendment".

Read the rest of the article here: http://www.nraila.org/Legislation/Read.aspx?ID=6879

[RedHawk]

+1 for Carver !!! Thats exactly what I mean when I say you have to know the "whole story" !! when you read the newspaper or Drudge , they paste in LARGE PRINT ATTENTION GETTERS (it works) ,most people just read that , it inflames them to no end , but never read the whole argument or worse just let someone elses comment end the argument , read others opinions as well , find out the whole truth , thank god our justice system (ok,ok) lets us see the facts before we send someone to the gallows!

[Bobitis]

Let me get this straight...

According to RedHawk, "Those of you who are against the NRA , might as well turn in your guns to the anti's now , we really dont need "wishy washys" on our side".

Really? Turn in my firearms cuz I don't support the NRA and question their tactics?

"Feel free to put a tooth under your pillow at night and believe the tooth fairy will make your dreams come true, it doesnt happen!
The NRA in its easiest interpretation is a UNION for all gun owners , think about it , ther is no other UNION of gun owners as strong as the NRA, none! But if you dont want to give your money to them thats fine , but quit denigrating the NRA , those of us who believe know better , even those who dont believe like some of you in here (know better)"!

I don't believe in the tooth fairy, and don't get me started on UNIONS. I actually do know better.

Redwing carson states:

" Geo. Sorroes gives 1 million a year to kill the NRA. Those of you who
attack the NRA are not unique, your kind has always been there. "

With all due respect sir, that is an insult of epic proportions.

And finally from RedHawk:

"It takes money to make money , very true , look at all the expense the NRA AFFORDS ITS MEMBERS , the insurance alone accounts for alot of it , but heres a great example of Washington politics , the NRA sends in 25 lobbyists , the SAF sends in one (if there lucky and he already paid graft to the politician he's swooning) , shear numbers will get a 1/3 of the NRA in the door ! You want to fight the battles in Washington you have to be prepared and you have to have money!!! You have to have Power!! and you have to have a war chest full of people! Which organization has that"

Insurance is all about making money. Why wouldn't they offer it?
The NRA may well send 25 'lobbyists' to DC. What are they lobbying for? The members or there own agenda?

The bottom line for me is, the NRA simply doesn't represent me and my interpretation of the 2nd amendment. I won't support 'politics as usual', nor any UNION that has a greater agenda when it comes to my rights.

Looks like I'm Wishy washy and should give up my rights. It appears that I'm a George Soros wannabe.

Why? Because I disagree with the NRA.

Gotcha.

May the mods feel free to ban me at this time, cuz I just can't seem to fit in.

[redwing carson]

The NRA is the only one who will provide affordable insurance for Instrs. and shooting ranges. If it is so profitable why is GOA and all the others not protecting Instrs and shooting ranges? The NRA is the only one providing Inst and shooting programs. Where is all that noney going? All you have to do is look the NRA will show you every dime spent. Rand Paul pro Gay pro Dope and phoney bills that 85 pro gun politicans voted aganist. By the way only recieved 10 votes. The negative NRA attacks are not unique they have been around for over 130 years. But we keep growing and iritating the left wingers.