3rd Hearing on ATFs Op. Fast & Furious being held today.

[artabr]

3rd Hearing on ATFs Op. Fast & Furious being held today.

The 3rd Congressional hearing into Operation Fast & Furious will be held today, Tuesday 7/26/2011.
The hearing will begin at 9 a.m. CST.
I do believe that it'll be covered live on C-SPAN.

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...d-next-tuesday

"This Tuesday’s hearing, Operation Fast and Furious: The Other Side of the Border, will feature the testimony of U.S. law enforcement officials who witnessed a different side of the controversial operation. These officials saw the steady stream of Operation Fast and Furious guns recovered at crime scenes in Mexico and were given orders from superiors not to alert Mexican authorities. Members of the Committee will also have their first opportunity to question ATF supervisors who have defended Operation Fast and Furious and the Justice Department’s decisions to committee investigators."







Art

[artabr]

I was wrong about the hearing being covered live on C-Span TV.
It is being broadcast live on C-Span Radio.

http://den-a.plr.liquidcompass.net/p...WCSPFM&uid=346


EDIT: Live Video - http://oversight.house.gov/



Art

[Marlin T]

Transcript of Newell questioning related to NSC's O'Reilly


David Codrea

, Gun Rights Examiner
July 26, 2011 - Like this? Subscribe to get instant updates.






A transcript of today's House Oversight Committee on Government Reform hearing has been released that includes all questioning of former Phoenix Field Division Special Agent in Charge William Newell regarding his relationship with and emails to National Security Council Director of North American Affairs Kevin O'Reilly, reported in today's earlier Gun Rights Examiner column.



Related transcript sections are copied and pasted below. Initial questions are by Rep. Raul Labrador and Committee Chairman Rep. Darrell Issa:

LABRADOR: Special Agent Newell, do you know who Kevin O'Reilly is?

NEWELL: Yes, Sir.

LABRADOR: What's the nature of your relationship with him?

NEWELL: I've known Kevin for I'd say probably 10 12 years?

LABRADOR: How often do you communicate with him?

NEWELL: Oh, I haven't communicated with him in a while but probably three or four times a year or something like that. Or maybe maybe more depending on him reaching out to me.

LABRADOR: Isn't it a little bit unusual for a special agent in charge of an ATF field division to have direct email contact with the national security staff at the White House?

NEWELL: He's he's a friend of mine.

LABRADOR: How many times did you talk to him about this case?

NEWELL: The specifics of this case? I don't think I I mean I don't think I had one specific conversation with him about the specifics of this case.

LABRADOR: OK. Who ...

ISSA (?): Would the gentleman allow me to help him a little? Not that you need it, but could you take the word specific out and and answer the general did you talk to him about this case?

NEWELL: I might have talked to him about this case. Yes, Sir.

ISSA(?): Do you know when that was?

NEWELL: It was probably I as I recall I think it was during the summer it might have been the summer or early fall of 2010.

Later in the hearing, Rep. Trey Gowdy picked up the O'Reilly connection to press for more information:

GOWDY: Let me ask you this. When you begin a sentence, "You didn't get this from me..." what does that mean to you?

NEWELL: Just means that didn't get it from me.

GOWDY: Well, but that's kind of a pleonasm, isn't it, because you are getting it from them? So it's a what do you mean by that, "You didn't get this from me..."? I'm referring to your e mail to Mr. O'Reilly (ph).

NEWELL: Well, obviously Mr. O'Reilly (ph) was a friend of mine and it's it's I shouldn't have been sending him that, obviously, I recognize that, it being a friend.

GOWDY: But what do you mean, "You didn't get this from me..."? Does that mean you should not have been talking to him about it?

NEWELL: Not that I shouldn't have been talking about. He's a friend of mine. He asked for information and I provided it to him.

GOWDY: Well, then, why wasn't it appropriate for you to give it to him? Why would you preface it by saying, "You didn't get this from me..."? Was it an improper communication?

NEWELL: No, it wasn't an improper communication.

GOWDY: Well, then, why would you preface it by that?

NEWELL: It's he's been a friend of mine for a long time and he asked me for information. So I gave him information that it's probably an improper use of the term or phrase.

UPDATE: Vanderboegh got a copy of the email. See sidebar photo.
Also see:

• ATF’s Phoenix SAC emailed Gunwalker info to National Security Council
• A Journalist’s Guide to ‘Project Gunwalker' Part One, Part Two, Part Three and Part Four for a complete list with links of independent investigative reporting and commentary done to date by Sipsey Street Irregulars and Gun Rights Examiner.

Note to newcomers to this story: “Project Gunrunner” is the name ATF assigned to its Southwest Border Initiative to interdict gun smuggling to Mexico. “Project Gunwalker” is the name I assigned to the scandal after allegations by agents that monitored guns were allowed to fall into criminal hands on both sides of the border through a surveillance process termed “walking” surfaced.

[ofitg]

Artabr and Marlin T, thanks for these updates. This story is getting more convoluted each day.

Not trying to add to the confusion here, but as I understand it, "Operation Fast & Furious" is not quite the same as "Project Gunrunner". According to what I have read, Fast & Furious is just a small part of the larger program called Gunrunner.

Gunrunner was launched in 2005, and was primarily focused on providing "E-Trace" software and training to Latin American countries.... supposedly, police in Latin America would be able to trace weapons recovered in their locales back to the original purchaser in the United States.
This sounds strange - I don't see how this system would work, unless the U.S. gov't had already entered all Form 4473's into a database somewhere.....?

Again, according to what I've read, Fast & Furious was an operation created in 2009 under the Project Gunrunner umbrella. Fast & Furious is the operation which allowed straw buyers to purchase thousands of guns (under the eyes of the ATF) and smuggle them into Mexico.

News reports about "Gunrunner" (aka "Gunwalker"), and "Fast & Furious", have been kind of ambiguous about how these things are related.....

[Marlin T]

There are plenty of different names for the "Project" including the one I like the best, "Project Gun Control"

Weapons didn't just flow to Mexico, they went to Central America and South America also. Maybe each had its own operation name but they are all one in the same.

The office of National Security Council Director is IN the Whitehouse, humm go figure.

[ofitg]

I've heard about Operation Castaway running guns to Honduras.... I'm not familiar with the ATF running guns to South America, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Based upon what I've heard so far, the actual transfer of guns to criminals began in 2009 on Obama's watch. Up until that time, ATF's Project Gunrunner was centered around the "E-Trace" program.

I'm still trying to figure out how that "E-Trace" was supposed to work. It is my understanding that Form 4473's are not turned over to ATF unless a FFL goes out of business, and I've been told that the telephone background checks do not include specific info on the gun(s) purchased.... perhaps DoubleD or some other FFL-holder will tell me if that is incorrect.
So how could a cop in Guatemala run "E-Trace" on his PC and determine that a WASR-10 serial # CN2270622 was sold to Paul Miller in Amarillo TX? It sounds like all the Form 4473 info has already been put into a database somewhere....

[Double D]

Originally Posted by ofitg

I've heard about Operation Castaway running guns to Honduras.... I'm not familiar with the ATF running guns to South America, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Based upon what I've heard so far, the actual transfer of guns to criminals began in 2009 on Obama's watch. Up until that time, ATF's Project Gunrunner was centered around the "E-Trace" program.

I'm still trying to figure out how that "E-Trace" was supposed to work. It is my understanding that Form 4473's are not turned over to ATF unless a FFL goes out of business, and I've been told that the telephone background checks do not include specific info on the gun(s) purchased.... perhaps DoubleD or some other FFL-holder will tell me if that is incorrect.
So how could a cop in Guatemala run "E-Trace" on his PC and determine that a WASR-10 serial # CN2270622 was sold to Paul Miller in Amarillo TX? It sounds like all the Form 4473 info has already been put into a database somewhere....

The 4473 is held by the FFL and when background checks are done, they only ask if its a handgun, long gun or both. They do not get the specifics on each gun purchased. If that gun is found or used in a crime, the serial numbers are then run to see if it is on the stolen gun database and then the serial number rundown begins. The gun shows up sold to jakes guns in nowhere ohio and then traced to the person he sold it to. But at no time does the gov have a serial number list of your guns.

[ofitg]

Originally Posted by Double D

The 4473 is held by the FFL and when background checks are done, they only ask if its a handgun, long gun or both. They do not get the specifics on each gun purchased. If that gun is found or used in a crime, the serial numbers are then run to see if it is on the stolen gun database and then the serial number rundown begins. The gun shows up sold to jakes guns in nowhere ohio and then traced to the person he sold it to. But at no time does the gov have a serial number list of your guns.

OK, that verifies what I have been told.... the gov't can trace a given serial number to a specific gunshop, and then somebody will have to go to the gunshop and obtain the Form 4473.

I wonder, possibly "E-Trace" works the same way? If a cop in Guatemala runs "E-Trace" on his PC, will he have to wait one or two days while an ATF agent visits the gunshop and pulls the Form 4473? It sounds like a lot of extra legwork for ATF agents, but that's still better than the idea of the gov't having a "master registry" of all guns sold over the past 40 years.

[Zhurh]

I just hope Issa is just fouling around with the little fish and he wants to get him a trophy; anything less would be criminal in itself.

[Marlin T]

Originally Posted by Double D

The 4473 is held by the FFL and when background checks are done, they only ask if its a handgun, long gun or both. They do not get the specifics on each gun purchased. If that gun is found or used in a crime, the serial numbers are then run to see if it is on the stolen gun database and then the serial number rundown begins. The gun shows up sold to jakes guns in nowhere ohio and then traced to the person he sold it to. But at no time does the gov have a serial number list of your guns.

Unless of course you live in TX, NM, AZ or CA
If a person buys multiple longguns then ALL the information is collected.
This is supposed to stop the ATF from running guns to Mexico. Wait a minute, does that make any sense at all? I guess that question is mute because that is the way that it is.

[millwright]

Originally Posted by ofitg

Artabr and Marlin T, thanks for these updates. This story is getting more convoluted each day.

Not trying to add to the confusion here, but as I understand it, "Operation Fast & Furious" is not quite the same as "Project Gunrunner"......


Gunrunner was launched in 2005, and was primarily focused on providing "E-Trace" software and training to Latin American countries.... supposedly, police in Latin America would be able to trace weapons recovered in their locales back to the original purchaser in the United States.......

Again, according to what I've read, Fast & Furious was an operation created in 2009 under the Project Gunrunner umbrella. Fast & Furious is the operation which allowed straw buyers to purchase thousands of guns (under the eyes of the ATF) and smuggle them into Mexico.......

And you're not !

At least one part of the "One's" administrative tactics (right out of his close friend /associate, Saul Alinisky's book, Rules For Radicals , BTW), is the deliberate sowing of misinformation, confusion and and obsfuscation in order to conceal your true objectives.

"Project Gunrunner" was created under the G.W. Bush administration, as you note. Circa 2009 ATF field agents became alarmed when the rules in place during "PG" regarding how illegally purchased guns were interdicted prior to crossing the border were changed under "Operation Fast and Furious". Many agents, chief among them Agent John Dodson, became so concerned/outraged at obsfuscation from "higher up" they set up a website, "CUATF" in order to provide support and information exchange at the field level.

FFwd to 2011 when Rep. Issa's "House Oversight Committee on Government Reform" held public hearings on this issue. USAG Holder testified under oath as not having personal knowledge of this program, despite his recorded testimony to Mexican officials in 2009 outlining "Project Fast and Furious" ! Various field agents from the Phoenix Field Office testified before the same committee their (largely negative), observations and concerns regarding the nature, organization and efficacy of "OFF" as a police/prosecution tool.

Over the July Fourth weekend ATF Temporary Director Ken Melson testified before the HOCGR, alleging the USDOJ was actively engaged in preventing his testimony by requiring him to be represented by their lawyers. He alleged it engaged in deliberately "contaminating" the testimony of others likely to be called by offering them access to a "special site" where a "desired" account of events was posted.

Most recently, (7/26/11) Rep Issa's Committee called before it several other representatives from ATF, notably Phoenix "Special Agent in Charge" William Newell. Newell reluctantly admitted information/approvals authorizaions for "OFF" ops spanned many agencies under the DOJ umbrella, including ATF, FBI, and DHS. He also admitted transmitting information to a contact inside the White House.

For documentation of the above precis, go to these sites (follow the html links posted at the end)

http://www.examiner.com/gun-rights-i...nsc-s-o-reilly

We all owe a debt to Mr. Codrea - and all Gun Rights Examiners - and particularly Mike Vanderbeogh (of Sipsey Street Irregulars) for their persistent and untiring work on this scandal. >MW

[millwright]

"Operation Castaway" was the carbon copy of "OFF", only run out of Tampa. You're right; these arms were destined for criminal gangs in Hondureas. I also saw reports this date alleging the transfer of light military arms to the Zetas Cartel from the USG via its "Commericial Sales" program.

Then there's other ops - most notably out of Houston and Dallas, TX that haven't been "named"; as yet. This all leads me to wondering how many other such "ops" were/are being conducted across the U.S. ? Recall the "Bloomberg Busts" in GA and SC garnering so much hoplophobic press ? Why weren't his "agents" prosecuted for admitted "straw purchases" ?

But, IMO, we have to ask some simple questions; "What was/is the purpose of such a complex, convoluted, extensive, (and patently illegal), operation ? " What does the Obama Administration - and the President in particular - stand to gain by it ? I do not now belive any operation of this complexity and implications could have been a "rogue operation by a few individuals". In any bureaucracy there's a "rail of breadcrumbs " denoting the enabling authority, funding resources, and records of expenditures. If we "follow the money" we'll get to the end. >MW

[Marlin T]