need help answering question

[hunter29180]

was on phone with son last night and he asked me a question I'm not sure how to answer.

Seems he was looking over a few pistols for purchase and over heard a conversation that raised this question. The conversation was beween a older fella and the clerk at a local gunshop. the fella had requested the shop to handle a transfer of a rifle to him from a shop while he was here visiting his family. he was getting this rifle to give to son as a present. the problem arose as when he asked the owner, a week or so before about this and got the green light on it, and now when the owner was in another state for another week. the rifle had come in and now the clerk and manager in charge were refusing to do the transfer as the fella want from another state.

while i know most shops will not sell a pistol to a out of stater, whats the law on rifles and shotguns? is this also something that has to have the check done? i see some shops IE cabellas and Sportsman Whse selling rifles and shotguns to out of staters.

I'm not sure how to answer this question from my son. does it vary state to state? or just shop to shop? I have friends who go out of state to hunt yearly, since they fly they say they just buy a new rifle when they get there and ship it back home when the hunt is done.

I'm confused on this one...Help??

[jjmitchell60]

As a FFL holder I can sell a long gun to anyone who lives in a state that borders the state in which I live in PROVIDED they can legally own a firearm AND the long gun they are buying is legal in the state they reside in. I do have to do the NICS check on them and the form 4473. Handgun sales from stste to state MUST go through FFL holders in each state.

[Alpo]

If I understand your question, this guy, let's say he's from Tennessee. He's in South Carolina and wants to buy a rifle at Joe's Gun Shop, to give to his son. Joe said no problem, but now the rifle has showed up, Joe is not in town, and the store employees won't sell him the gun because he is NOT a South Carolina resident?

Under Federal law, the employees are wrong. You can buy a rifle or shotgun in any state.

There is, however, a proviso. There must not be a law against it in the state where you are buying the gun OR in the state where you live. California (I'm 98% sure) will not let you buy a gun in any other state, so even though there is no law against it in South Carolina, it is against the law in California, so a Californian can't buy a rifle in South Carolina.

I figger one of three things has happened.

Either the store clerks aren't aware that it is legal (between 1968 and 1986 you could only buy a rifle or shotgun in a state that touched yours, so as a Floridian I could buy in Georgia or Alabama but not in Mississippi or Tennessee. Many people think that law is still in effect), so they are refusing the transfer in a CYA maneuver. When the store owner gets back next week, the transfer can happen, and the clerks can get educated.

Or, the store owner was NOT aware that the man's state forbade it, so told him it was okay, and when they started the 4473, and found out where the man was from, the clerks knew it was illegal because of his state of residence. Unfortunately the store owner screwed up. Only way around it is for the son to come buy it himself.

Or, the man mentioned that he was going to give it to his son, and the store employees thought "STRAW PURCHASE!!! ATF STING!!!", and said no. Many people, including many gun store employees, think that if you buy a gun for someone else it is a straw purchase - period. That's not so. If you buy a gun for someone else that CANNOT LEGALLY BUY ONE, then it's a straw purchase. Buying a gun to give to your son is perfectly legal, but that scares a lot of people.

By the way - "while i know most shops will not sell a pistol to a out of stater". It is completely illegal, everywhere in the country, for a gunshop to transfer a pistol to
an out-of-stater. Not must most. All gunshops are not supposed to do it. The only way that I, a Floridian, can buy a pistol anywhere in this country except in Florida, is to have it shipped to a dealer in Florida. Even if I'm standing at the counter of Joe's Gun Shop in South Carolina, he can't give me the gun. He has to ship it to a dealer in Florida. Stupid BS, but it's the law.

[Alpo]

There you go. Prime example of "people don't know the law".

>As a FFL holder I can sell a long gun to anyone who lives in a state that borders the state in which I live...<

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/faq/unlicensed-persons.html FAQ #2

Q: From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA?

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

[rosierita]

Originally Posted by hunter29180

was on phone with son last night and he asked me a question I'm not sure how to answer.

Seems he was looking over a few pistols for purchase and over heard a conversation that raised this question. The conversation was beween a older fella and the clerk at a local gunshop. the fella had requested the shop to handle a transfer of a rifle to him from a shop while he was here visiting his family. he was getting this rifle to give to son as a present. the problem arose as when he asked the owner, a week or so before about this and got the green light on it, and now when the owner was in another state for another week. the rifle had come in and now the clerk and manager in charge were refusing to do the transfer as the fella want from another state.

while i know most shops will not sell a pistol to a out of stater, whats the law on rifles and shotguns? is this also something that has to have the check done? i see some shops IE cabellas and Sportsman Whse selling rifles and shotguns to out of staters.

I'm not sure how to answer this question from my son. does it vary state to state? or just shop to shop? I have friends who go out of state to hunt yearly, since they fly they say they just buy a new rifle when they get there and ship it back home when the hunt is done.

I'm confused on this one...Help??

since i'm near you (in lexington), i'll tell you this... i had a rifle shipped from florida to sc w/ no problem. (actually a gun i got from this site in a drawing! thanks again mike! ) you just have to line up 2 FFL's that are willing to do the transfer. i dont know if the guy is still in business, but the FFL i used was at the traffic circle, if that helps you any. (i cannot remember his name, he had a gun shop & was a friend of my FIL's.)

ETA ~ i know it can be done from our end, i dont know what other state is involved, so i realize that would matter too.

[hunter29180]

so a fella (whos was from AZ bye the way) is or isnt allowed to recieve the rifle in SC?


an i guess i need to get my licence changed too as i still have a AZ licence. we hope to be transferred back there in another year. so really didnt want to change it...and a gun shop near me (wont mention which one, just to make sure they dont get in trouble) did sell me a .22 for my 9 yr old grandson. course i had him with me and we went through 6 diffrent rifles before finding one that "fit" him right.

[HunterAlpha1]

what about private deals? for example, i live in VA, i go to a gun show in TX, can i buy a longarm from a guy who's walking around with it slung over his shoulder with a "for sale" sign sticking out of the barrel?

[Scott Marshall]

Originally Posted by HunterAlpha1

what about private deals? for example, i live in VA, i go to a gun show in TX, can i buy a longarm from a guy who's walking around with it slung over his shoulder with a "for sale" sign sticking out of the barrel?

In Montana yes ,so long as the person selling or buying is A resident of the state at the gun show.However a non-resident seller must follow the laws of their state i.e. 18 (RIFLE) 21 (HANDGUN) background checks.I can buy and carry out of a store a rifle bought in WV,but a handgun has to be shipped to an FFL (my employer has one)in Montana.The issues get particulary murky when it comes to HI,CT,DE,NY,MA,VT,ME,and DC. Especially when it comes to any weapon deemed to be high capacity. Always check the laws before a purchase.

[Alpo]

Originally Posted by HunterAlpha1

what about private deals? for example, i live in VA, i go to a gun show in TX, can i buy a longarm from a guy who's walking around with it slung over his shoulder with a "for sale" sign sticking out of the barrel?

No you can't. If you will notice, the FAQ I posted:

>A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises ...<

At a licensee's premises. That means "At the gunstore". There are only two legal ways for you, from Virginia, to buy a rifle from Joe Citizen in Texas. Either the two of you go find a dealer in Texas, hand him the rifle, let him log it into his bound book, then he (the dealer) sells it to you, after you fill out the 4473 and he calls you in. The other way is for Joe Citizen to box it up and mail it back to your dealer in Virginia, and you receive it from him when you get home, after filling out the 4473 and him calling you in.

[HunterAlpha1]

that sucks
but thanks for the info

[jjmitchell60]

Alpo, hate to disagree with you BUT by Kentucky KRS revised Statuates as a FFL holder I cannopt sell a long guin to ANYONE that does not live in KY OR in a state that borders KY! We are furnished signs that shows exactly what states we can sell long guns to individuals to. SO by STATE law I cannot sell to a man who comes from say TX into my shop a long gun UNLESS that individual has a FFL themself. Now I have been down that road many times with a local auction house that I do their transfers/shippping to out of state buyers and THEY were the ones who actually clued me in to the border stste law here in KY. I have talked to BATF agents about it an dthey have verified that as a FFL holder here in KY I cannot sell a longarm to anyone who does not live in KY or a border state of KY. Now I must admit I am no attorney but I HAVE to abide by what the ATF agents located in Lexington KY or Louisville KY tell me least I am subject to citation and a hefty FINE!

[Hawg]

Originally Posted by Alpo

No you can't. If you will notice, the FAQ I posted:

>A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises ...<

At a licensee's premises. That means "At the gunstore". There are only two legal ways for you, from Virginia, to buy a rifle from Joe Citizen in Texas. Either the two of you go find a dealer in Texas, hand him the rifle, let him log it into his bound book, then he (the dealer) sells it to you, after you fill out the 4473 and he calls you in. The other way is for Joe Citizen to box it up and mail it back to your dealer in Virginia, and you receive it from him when you get home, after filling out the 4473 and him calling you in.

Like the average Joe is gonna abide by that. Nobody at a gun show(except licensed dealers) cares where you're from.

[HunterAlpha1]

Originally Posted by Hawg

Like the average Joe is gonna abide by that. Nobody at a gun show(except licensed dealers) cares where you're from.

very comforting, thanks for reminding me

[Alpo]

Originally Posted by jjmitchell60

Alpo, hate to disagree with you BUT by Kentucky KRS revised Statuates as a FFL holder I cannopt sell a long guin to ANYONE that does not live in KY OR in a state that borders KY! We are furnished signs that shows exactly what states we can sell long guns to individuals to. SO by STATE law I cannot sell to a man who comes from say TX into my shop a long gun UNLESS that individual has a FFL themself. Now I have been down that road many times with a local auction house that I do their transfers/shippping to out of state buyers and THEY were the ones who actually clued me in to the border stste law here in KY. I have talked to BATF agents about it an dthey have verified that as a FFL holder here in KY I cannot sell a longarm to anyone who does not live in KY or a border state of KY. Now I must admit I am no attorney but I HAVE to abide by what the ATF agents located in Lexington KY or Louisville KY tell me least I am subject to citation and a hefty FINE!

That, then, would go back to this part.

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee’s premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

Your original post sounded like "as an FFL I can only sell to", but actually it's "as an FFL in Kentucky, I can only sell to"

That's a KENTUCKY law, not a FEDERAL GUN law.

[Alpo]

Yes, Hawg, people ignore the law all the time.

If he had asked, "Can I go buy a pound of reefer and smoke it while driving down the street?" - well, people do it. But, no, you can't.

Same thing. What he asked about is illegal.

[hunter29180]

Originally Posted by Alpo

If he had asked, "Can I go buy a pound of reefer and smoke it while driving down the street?"

[HunterAlpha1]

Originally Posted by Hawg

Like the average Joe is gonna abide by that. Nobody at a gun show(except licensed dealers) cares where you're from.

Originally Posted by Alpo

Yes, Hawg, people ignore the law all the time.

If he had asked, "Can I go buy a pound of reefer and smoke it while driving down the street?" - well, people do it. But, no, you can't.

Same thing. What he asked about is illegal.

constitutionally speaking, no it's not, since that federal law violates the Second Amendment, the government had neither the authority to pass it nor enforce it.

[medalguy]

Until the Supreme Court overturns the law, that is indeed the law. Whether we agree with it or not, that is the law and nothing we think or say can change that.