New member

Canvasman · 08-22-2011, 08:02 PM

(JPserial number.pdf

Full page documentation.pdf

Full page full ammo box.pdf

Full page original ammo.pdf

Can someone help me out what do I have here? I have more pic's to show of this gun.

Canvasman · 08-22-2011, 08:09 PM

Full page original box.pdf

Gmail - Gun - two full mags and holster.pdf

I think it is possible that this gun was never fired. Does having all the original documentation make it more valuable?

JLA · 08-22-2011, 08:22 PM

Welcome Canvasman. I compiled your threads and moved the cohesive here to Ask the Pros forum. I feel you will get the best answers here.

Nice colt BTW.

jlloyd73 · 08-22-2011, 08:50 PM

welcome

Danny · 08-22-2011, 10:03 PM

What you have is super nice, indeed. To the right Colt collector I would value your outfit around 3500 or even more. What do ya say, Shooter?
Regards

Danny

Jim K · 08-22-2011, 11:19 PM

I doubt he would get anywhere near $3500, with the papers and box, even if it is original. IMHO it has been restored.

Jim

jack404 · 08-22-2011, 11:35 PM

Jim , what makes you think its been restored ?

Canvasman · 08-23-2011, 07:13 AM

Thanks for the the help. I guess I will have to check out the what it's worth forum to here from the experts. I don't agree with the restored comment that gun hasn't been out of the box since it was new. That's my guess. It was given to to me by a friend of the family who pasted several years ago. He was a WWII marine vet.

Canvasman · 08-23-2011, 07:17 AM

Jim, what does IMHO mean?

jack404 · 08-23-2011, 07:33 AM

In My Humble Opinion

Canvasman its a nice piece , value ? lots , $3500 ?? i cant say , what ever the market can bare ... but i'm doubting refinish , but still asking why ..

Canvasman · 08-23-2011, 07:34 AM

Jim, an eye for an eye is the old testament. Jesus said to turn the other cheek ( if your a Christian that is ) HOWEVER, if he's got a gun or is hurt'in your family shoot um.

Canvasman · 08-23-2011, 07:37 AM

Just saw your post Jim. Thanks for the info. I hope to make some new friends here.

Double D · 08-23-2011, 07:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canvasman

Jim, an eye for an eye is the old testament. Jesus said to turn the other cheek ( if your a Christian that is ) HOWEVER, if he's got a gun or is hurt'in your family shoot um.

Please tell me what this comment has to do with this thread? I need to know so I can decide wheather or not to delete it. Thanks.

Canvasman · 08-23-2011, 07:57 AM

Danny, I am just about to freak out about your opinion of this piece. Thanks for the info I am sure of its original condition. Since I am new to this site I don't who the experts are. But you have my vote Mr. Senior member sir. Now I have to decide if I want to part with the little beauty. I have a whole new respect for it now.

jack404 · 08-23-2011, 08:05 AM

I think it's directed at my signature

a few lines from a song i like

and thats ok i turn the cheek often , been slapped often

but the Good Book also ( new testiment ) shows that evil must be fought

as in if you have no sword take your purse ( wallet ) and buy one

if you have no purse, then sell your clothes , ( go naked if you have to but be armed )

Welcome to the forum ( sorry i normally start with that , but i've been remiss , sorry )

cheers

Canvasman · 08-23-2011, 08:06 AM

I was just responding to Jacks quote quote in his message. No disrespect intended. If I offended any one it was not intentional. Looking for good discussions and friendly banter only. Lou

Canvasman · 08-23-2011, 08:17 AM

Whew, thanks Jack sure didn't mean anything negative. I'm glad to meet you and all here.

jack404 · 08-23-2011, 08:29 AM

no offence taken mate , i'm a Aussie , we all have our own views , and thats what makes the world great ...

happy to see new faces here , its a great place and hope you enjoy it here , i do

Jim K · 08-23-2011, 10:57 AM

Hi, Canvasman,

First, my opinion is just that, but I have seen at truckload of those pistols and that one (IMHO) is not original. Do you KNOW that the pistol has never been out of the box and is unfired? Or is that what it looks like or what someone told you?

I think it not only has been restored, but that the job was done by Turnbull. They keep records and will inform anyone who asks if a specific model and serial number has been worked on by them.

My reasons are not easy to explain. The bluing used by Colt c. 1919 is a hard, black color; all angles are sharp, the frame-slide surfaces are absolutely flat. I have two of those guns from the same era, so I am not going by pictures. If you have any other Colts (revolver or auto) of that time, compare the color and more important the mirror shine, which doesn't seem to be there in the .25 auto pictured. The color case hardening is too colorful; that applied by Colt is more subdued.

Here are some things to look for. Look under the grips for any signs of pitting, especially at the edges of the grips. Look for wear on the slide. Look for wear on the striker and sear. Look at the recoil spring guide. Look at the back of the slide/frame to see if there is a "dip" at the joint where the parts were polished separately. Colt polished those parts down together, so there should be an almost perfect "join" with out a "dip". I could go on, but that should be enough.

That a gun comes with the box and papers does not mean it is new and unfired. I have the box and papers for my Model 19, and I guarantee it is not unfired unless you count maybe 10 k rounds as unfired. (It still looks near new, though - I take care of my guns.)

Could I be wrong? Sure. Been wrong before and will be again. And in a few cases, I have backed down simply to avoid making an enemy. If you are willing to accept without question that the gun is new and unfired, OK, it is your gun. But if you paid high dollar for a story, you might want to see what you can do about rectifying the situation.

Jim

Canvasman · 08-23-2011, 11:21 AM

Well no one told me it was never fired I just said I thought it was possible. Looking at it shows very little wear. The gun was purchased well before I was born and it was given to me as a gift so I don't have to worry that I was scammed. I came seeking opinions and I respect yours the same as all the rest. I don't know the restoration company you mentioned and since I got it from a family member all I can say is there was never any talk of restoration. I have been aware of this guns existence for over 20 years and I am certain it has not been restored in that time frame. This will no doubt have to be put in the hands of an expert to evaluate. Thanks for sharing.

Canvasman · 08-23-2011, 12:01 PM

Jim, I located Turnbull on line and called them. They have no record of restoring the serial no for this gun 225260. I also took the handles off and there was no sign of pitting. I'm not sure where to look and find some off the other places you mentioned but it does seem black and shiny to me. But I don't know what it is supposed to look like. Lou

Jim K · 08-23-2011, 01:40 PM

Let's put it down to the picture, and not worry.

Jim

Double D · 08-23-2011, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Canvasman

I was just responding to Jacks quote quote in his message. No disrespect intended. If I offended any one it was not intentional. Looking for good discussions and friendly banter only. Lou

No problem now. It did seem out of place but I think I see it now. Welcome aboard.

08-22-2011, 08:02 PM	#1
Canvasman Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 14	New member (JPserial number.pdf Full page documentation.pdf Full page full ammo box.pdf Full page original ammo.pdf Can someone help me out what do I have here? I have more pic's to show of this gun. -->

08-22-2011, 08:09 PM	#2
Canvasman Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 14	More pic's Full page original box.pdf Gmail - Gun - two full mags and holster.pdf I think it is possible that this gun was never fired. Does having all the original documentation make it more valuable?

08-22-2011, 08:22 PM	#3
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,280	Re: New member Welcome Canvasman. I compiled your threads and moved the cohesive here to Ask the Pros forum. I feel you will get the best answers here. Nice colt BTW. __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

08-22-2011, 08:50 PM	#4
jlloyd73 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2010 Contributor Posts: 1,931	Re: New member welcome __________________ --------------------------------------------------- The only thing better than good family is good friends. J and D Lloyd Get ready...it's getting "real" and really fast!

08-22-2011, 10:03 PM	#5
Danny Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: West Va Contributor Posts: 594	Re: New member What you have is super nice, indeed. To the right Colt collector I would value your outfit around 3500 or even more. What do ya say, Shooter? Regards Danny __________________ THE GUN HAS PLAYED A CRITICAL ROLE IN HISTORY. AN INVENTION WHICH HAS BEEN PRAISED & DENOUNCED...SERVED HERO & VILLAIN ALIKE...AND CARRIES WITH IT MORAL RESPONSIBILITY...TO UNDERSTAND THE GUN IS TO BETTER UNDERSTAND HISTORY.

08-22-2011, 11:19 PM	#6
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: New member I doubt he would get anywhere near $3500, with the papers and box, even if it is original. IMHO it has been restored. Jim

08-22-2011, 11:35 PM	#7
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: New member Jim , what makes you think its been restored ?

08-23-2011, 07:13 AM	#8
Canvasman Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 14	Re: New member Thanks for the the help. I guess I will have to check out the what it's worth forum to here from the experts. I don't agree with the restored comment that gun hasn't been out of the box since it was new. That's my guess. It was given to to me by a friend of the family who pasted several years ago. He was a WWII marine vet.

08-23-2011, 07:17 AM	#9
Canvasman Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 14	Re: New member Jim, what does IMHO mean?

08-23-2011, 07:33 AM	#10
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: New member In My Humble Opinion Canvasman its a nice piece , value ? lots , $3500 ?? i cant say , what ever the market can bare ... but i'm doubting refinish , but still asking why ..

08-23-2011, 07:34 AM	#11
Canvasman Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 14	Re: New member Jim, an eye for an eye is the old testament. Jesus said to turn the other cheek ( if your a Christian that is ) HOWEVER, if he's got a gun or is hurt'in your family shoot um.

08-23-2011, 07:37 AM	#12
Canvasman Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 14	Re: New member Just saw your post Jim. Thanks for the info. I hope to make some new friends here.

08-23-2011, 07:57 AM	#14
Canvasman Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 14	Re: New member Danny, I am just about to freak out about your opinion of this piece. Thanks for the info I am sure of its original condition. Since I am new to this site I don't who the experts are. But you have my vote Mr. Senior member sir. Now I have to decide if I want to part with the little beauty. I have a whole new respect for it now.

08-23-2011, 08:05 AM	#15
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: New member I think it's directed at my signature a few lines from a song i like and thats ok i turn the cheek often , been slapped often but the Good Book also ( new testiment ) shows that evil must be fought as in if you have no sword take your purse ( wallet ) and buy one if you have no purse, then sell your clothes , ( go naked if you have to but be armed ) Welcome to the forum ( sorry i normally start with that , but i've been remiss , sorry ) cheers

08-23-2011, 08:06 AM	#16
Canvasman Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 14	Re: New member I was just responding to Jacks quote quote in his message. No disrespect intended. If I offended any one it was not intentional. Looking for good discussions and friendly banter only. Lou

08-23-2011, 08:17 AM	#17
Canvasman Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 14	Re: New member Whew, thanks Jack sure didn't mean anything negative. I'm glad to meet you and all here.

08-23-2011, 08:29 AM	#18
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: New member no offence taken mate , i'm a Aussie , we all have our own views , and thats what makes the world great ... happy to see new faces here , its a great place and hope you enjoy it here , i do

08-23-2011, 10:57 AM	#19
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: New member Hi, Canvasman, First, my opinion is just that, but I have seen at truckload of those pistols and that one (IMHO) is not original. Do you KNOW that the pistol has never been out of the box and is unfired? Or is that what it looks like or what someone told you? I think it not only has been restored, but that the job was done by Turnbull. They keep records and will inform anyone who asks if a specific model and serial number has been worked on by them. My reasons are not easy to explain. The bluing used by Colt c. 1919 is a hard, black color; all angles are sharp, the frame-slide surfaces are absolutely flat. I have two of those guns from the same era, so I am not going by pictures. If you have any other Colts (revolver or auto) of that time, compare the color and more important the mirror shine, which doesn't seem to be there in the .25 auto pictured. The color case hardening is too colorful; that applied by Colt is more subdued. Here are some things to look for. Look under the grips for any signs of pitting, especially at the edges of the grips. Look for wear on the slide. Look for wear on the striker and sear. Look at the recoil spring guide. Look at the back of the slide/frame to see if there is a "dip" at the joint where the parts were polished separately. Colt polished those parts down together, so there should be an almost perfect "join" with out a "dip". I could go on, but that should be enough. That a gun comes with the box and papers does not mean it is new and unfired. I have the box and papers for my Model 19, and I guarantee it is not unfired unless you count maybe 10 k rounds as unfired. (It still looks near new, though - I take care of my guns.) Could I be wrong? Sure. Been wrong before and will be again. And in a few cases, I have backed down simply to avoid making an enemy. If you are willing to accept without question that the gun is new and unfired, OK, it is your gun. But if you paid high dollar for a story, you might want to see what you can do about rectifying the situation. Jim

08-23-2011, 11:21 AM	#20
Canvasman Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 14	Re: New member Well no one told me it was never fired I just said I thought it was possible. Looking at it shows very little wear. The gun was purchased well before I was born and it was given to me as a gift so I don't have to worry that I was scammed. I came seeking opinions and I respect yours the same as all the rest. I don't know the restoration company you mentioned and since I got it from a family member all I can say is there was never any talk of restoration. I have been aware of this guns existence for over 20 years and I am certain it has not been restored in that time frame. This will no doubt have to be put in the hands of an expert to evaluate. Thanks for sharing.

08-23-2011, 12:01 PM	#21
Canvasman Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 14	Re: New member Jim, I located Turnbull on line and called them. They have no record of restoring the serial no for this gun 225260. I also took the handles off and there was no sign of pitting. I'm not sure where to look and find some off the other places you mentioned but it does seem black and shiny to me. But I don't know what it is supposed to look like. Lou

08-23-2011, 01:40 PM	#22
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: New member Let's put it down to the picture, and not worry. Jim