new referegerent in 2013

[cycloneman]

Look like something new is coming in 2013 for your car.

HFO-1234yf

http://www.1234facts.com/library.php

The European F-Gas Regulation (passed in July 2006) has the goal of reducing emissions from certain fluorinated gases. It is part of the EU's overall measures to reduce emissions of greenhouse gases as agreed under the Kyoto Protocol. F-Gases are mainly used in closed systems for cooling, air conditioning equipment and other industrial applications. If they leak from equipment, they can contribute to global warming. In addition to the F-Gas Regulation, the EU has also passed the Mobile Air Conditioning (MAC) Directive. It stipulates that as of 2011, refrigerants in new vehicle types cannot have a Global Warming Potential (GWP) greater than 150. As of 2017, this will apply to all new cars. The refrigerant currently used in automotive air conditioning, R-134a, will be phased out in automobiles. HFO-1234yf has a GWP of 4 and is an important step towards meeting climate protection goals.

Milestones:
As of January 2011: Refrigerants in automotive air conditioning of new vehicle types must have a GWP of less than 150

As of January 2017: Refrigerants in all new vehicles must have a GWP of less than 150

Legal basis for Europe: Single European market (article 95, EG Treaty)

[jack404]

and here's jacks chemistry this stuff is , despite what they want to call it

2,3,3,3-Tetrafluoropropene

From the materials data safety sheet

Inhalation : May be harmful if inhaled.
May cause respiratory tract irritation.
Gas reduces oxygen available for breathing.
Causes asphyxiation in high concentrations. The victim will not
realize that he/she is suffocating.
Inhalation may cause central nervous system effects.

thats bad

but wait! theres way more

this stuff once out of the sealed system of your A/C WILL oxidise and fast and breaks down to Trifluoroacetic acid

C2 HF3 O2

THIS WILL KILL YOU

at best it will create semi transgenic isofluxes

meaning it breaks down the genetic structure of DNA allowing all sorts of mutations and these mutations are estimated to be able to passed in genetic sequence ( meaning passed to your kids )

who in their wacked out drug filled state allowed this ? oh the UN eugenicists

need i say more ??

[HunterAlpha1]

and they claim weed is bad for you...

[JLA]

I see the ultimate goal here.. Its designed to kill off freon huffers..

[cycloneman]

Here is the link to the MSDS sheets if you want to poop your pants.

http://www.1234facts.com/pdf/HFO-123...ASA_110216.pdf

Thanks Jack i didn't know about this. I wish I would have bought 1000 cans of r12 when i was a teenager for a buck a can. I would be sitting on a small fourtune right now. I guess if the price of 134 comes down this winter i will have to stock up cause there is no way i want anything to do with this new stuff.

[JUNKKING]

If by chance your vehicle takes 134A now ya better stock up. Last year it was 6 bucks a can this year 10 to 14 depending where you get it next year it's going to be over 25 dollars a can a mechanic friend told me.

[jack404]

ok things may be bad but heres where is gets worse

talking with a friend here , with a simple hydrodenator and some pool chlorine , this stuff makes a brilliant WMD , you can make a hydrogenator with a pressure cooker and a platinum spark plug a hot enough coil and curcit

it allows bonding of a chlorine molecule to the 2,3,3,3,3 etc and creates NERVE GAS

we've run the numbers via the computer modeling and its come up with a 80% success rate for a home operation based on a pressure cooker , a proper hydrogenator is a 99,99% result

wmd's made easy ..

i wish i had never got into NBC ..

NBC is Nuclear , biological and chemical warfare

[Gun Geezer]

I've been told that the greatest contributor to air pollution and global warming is animal flatulence ( cattle farts). What are they doing to address this issue?

[hunter29180]

Originally Posted by Gun Geezer

I've been told that the greatest contributor to air pollution and global warming is animal flatulence ( cattle farts). What are they doing to address this issue?

this only happens when you feed "BEANS" to cows..they have stopped that now..the beans go into pigs now which then are used to make GOAT feed for muslin countries! so blame the PIGS!!!

[medalguy]

Our house AC compressor went out last week and the repairman who we've known for about 30 years said to patch it up and wait until next year to replace it because they're going to require a new refrigerant in home AC units too. He said if we replace it now, we won't be able to get more regrigerant in a few years for the old unit. Wait until next summer and it'll be the new stuff. Hopefully that will be available for a few years more.

Thanks to the politicians for this.

[jack404]

lotsa lies about global warming folks..

the socialists here are using global warming to tax us ( wealth redistribution) and to limit growth but they put this deadly stuff in our A/C units ??

all part of eugenics ..

[Gun Geezer]

I had to replace my condensing unit last year. The new refrigerant is already out and I was given the choice of getting the new stuff or the old R-22 in the identical unit. I opted for the old R-22 because the new stuff operates at higher pressures and I would have had to buy new gauges plus I had a drum of R-22 left. With leaks being a large portion of A/C repair, how smart is it to raise the pressures? Oh, I forgot to mention that I was a retired HVAC Contractor. They either have or will stop making R-22 this year or next but existing supplies will assure its availability for the next 20 yrs. I figure by that time I'll pay for a new unit to be installed or the "Home" I'm in will worry about the A/C. I'll stick with the devil I know.

[cycloneman]

Originally Posted by Gun Geezer

I had to replace my condensing unit last year. The new refrigerant is already out and I was given the choice of getting the new stuff or the old R-22 in the identical unit. I opted for the old R-22 because the new stuff operates at higher pressures and I would have had to buy new gauges plus I had a drum of R-22 left. With leaks being a large portion of A/C repair, how smart is it to raise the pressures? Oh, I forgot to mention that I was a retired HVAC Contractor. They either have or will stop making R-22 this year or next but existing supplies will assure its availability for the next 20 yrs. I figure by that time I'll pay for a new unit to be installed or the "Home" I'm in will worry about the A/C. I'll stick with the devil I know.

I have not made up my mind yet if I am going to purchase any 22 to save for the future. I prefer window units to central. I have both. You can never have enough ac in looziana. Honestly I dont even use the central any more. I find I can cool off only the rooms i want to cool off and it is cheaper to operate and replace. If a window unit craps out i open the window and let it fall. A coouple of hundred bucks later i am back in business. As far as the moble ac's go I will defenitly stock up on 134a. I personally believe 134 is far better than r12 ever was. Yes r12 will cool better at idle but i dont get in my vehicles to sit at an idle. As long as your turning 1000 rpms the 134 is cooling fine. What I like about the 134 is that there are far less leaks to contend with. Back in the day when r 12 was being used eveyone i knew had a leak and was allways fixing the ac. Now leaks seem to go away with leak sealer in the can. Far less people i know fixing the units with 134. Just my observation and what i think. I like the stuff and plan to use it for a long time. As far as the new stuff coming out i feel from what i have read that it will be ecxtremely crossive and i think ac repair men will make a killing fixing units in the near future. They can keep the 12 and the new stuff i am gona stock up on ester oil, cans of 134 with oil, cans with sealer, uv dye, and plane ol 134. As well as a couple of o ring kits. thats my .02

[bluesea112]

I remember when Freon was $1.00 per can. If you bought a case, you could get it for $.75 per can.

[dbrodin]

Originally Posted by Gun Geezer

I've been told that the greatest contributor to air pollution and global warming is animal flatulence ( cattle farts). What are they doing to address this issue?

They complain about cattle farts because of the "unnatural" numbers of cattle. Before cattle ranching, the great plains had millions of bison. I have a hunch that bison fart too!

[aa1911]

my old 4runner still eats R22 but going to convert it to 134 when I rebuild it; never had any problems with either one, just evacuated and recharged my tacoma and it was clean as a whistle inside the system. This new stuff looks retarded; what happens if you wreck, you get the equivalent of a nerve agent released onto you? cripes....

134 is pretty expensive now too, it's hitting $10 can most places now. The oil isn't too bad though and you only need a tiny bit. Most of the cans already have oil in them though anyway if you DIY.

and call me crazy, but the last thing I would be worrying about is cow farts (unless I was really close to one at the moment). Amazing...

[68c15]

so they want to wrap us all up in a container of this new chemical that can be easily transformed into a deadly gas?

anyone heard about the old r12 and how it is actually safer than r134a for the atmosphere or was that just a lie?

what gets really interesting to people in my career is the fact that new cars have a very small amount of refrigerant. cars used to have 3 or more pounds where as now they are 10 or so ounces. factor in that they also have a small amount of oil. now, get a small leak and you loose 4 ounces. next thing you know you need to spend $1500 to replace the compressor, condenser, lines, and drier.

what's next? will you get a fine from EPA for releasing dangerous elements during an automobile collision? I guess we all better just bow down to communism and take public transportation. is there a bus heading to next year's TFF bbq?

[Gun Geezer]

Originally Posted by aa1911

my old 4runner still eats R22 but going to convert it to 134 when I rebuild it; never had any problems with either one, just evacuated and recharged my tacoma and it was clean as a whistle inside the system. This new stuff looks retarded; what happens if you wreck, you get the equivalent of a nerve agent released onto you? cripes....

134 is pretty expensive now too, it's hitting $10 can most places now. The oil isn't too bad though and you only need a tiny bit. Most of the cans already have oil in them though anyway if you DIY.

and call me crazy, but the last thing I would be worrying about is cow farts (unless I was really close to one at the moment). Amazing...

Not trying to be picky or bait you, but no auto I ever heard of used R-22. You surely mean R-12. R-12 was replaced by R-134A and hasn't been produced for at least 10 yrs. You can still purchase existing stocks but at super premium prices. I bought a 30 lb. drum of R-12 about 12 yrs. ago for over $300.00. I have some friends who believe in keeping their classic cars all original. R-22 used in residential cooling is also being phased out and will soon no longer be produced, but existing stock will most likely be available for years to come. It's replacement operates at much higher pressures which in my mind means more leaks and would necessitate my buying new gauges, which is why I opted for the R-22 unit for my home. I'm trying real hard to stay retired.

[aa1911]

yeah, R12, sorry. I've only messed with 134 (R-134a to be exact?), haven't opened up my 4runner's system yet, it's dead. I have my old AC compressor off my tacoma to rebuild and it will be going on that motor until I can afford a diesel swap for her.

I knew nothing about AC systems until a couple years ago when I went to service mine, still don't know that much about 'em but enough to get them working properly (on Toyotas anyway)

[cycloneman]

Originally Posted by aa1911

yeah, R12, sorry. I've only messed with 134 (R-134a to be exact?), haven't opened up my 4runner's system yet, it's dead. I have my old AC compressor off my tacoma to rebuild and it will be going on that motor until I can afford a diesel swap for her.

I knew nothing about AC systems until a couple years ago when I went to service mine, still don't know that much about 'em but enough to get them working properly (on Toyotas anyway)

I had good luck with the 134a retrofit. Easy to do. Changed seals, I flushed it out, changed the orafice tube, dried it out, oiled it up, charged it up and been working fine in my 86 MC.

[aa1911]

techchoiceparts.com has fantastic prices, I got my new compressor unit there plus full set of new O-rings and a new dryer for $207 delivered. Good quality and full of oil, ready to go! The dryer I would get OEM, the one they supplied is made in china but the compressor is beautiful.

I did not do the expansion valve (it's a huge PITA to get to on the 3.4's) as my system was still blowing ice cold, just the magnetic clutch was activating occasionally on it's own. I just pulled the wire to disable it until I got around to fixing it.

the more I do on my vehicles, the easier everything seems to actually turn out; AC is pretty easy. 5 years ago I could do not much more than change oil, now I'm supercharged, rebuilding, engine tuning, heavy modifications like solid axle swaps, engine swaps, etc. I do my own timing belts now too after a shop nearly deadlined my engine by re-using a non-reusable bolt on the crankshaft pulley. It's another addiction that thins my wallet out way too quickly!

First time I did AC I had a shop do the evacuation/recharge I did all the mechanical work; for the labor and cost of refrigerant and 'shop materials' I could have easily bought my own machine for the same price. So harbor freight or summitracing.com will get my money next time and I will be set up on my own.

anyone ever needs any Toyota 4x4 vehicle info, hit me up!

[gvw3]

Originally Posted by aa1911

techchoiceparts.com has fantastic prices, I got my new compressor unit there plus full set of new O-rings and a new dryer for $207 delivered. Good quality and full of oil, ready to go! The dryer I would get OEM, the one they supplied is made in china but the compressor is beautiful.

I did not do the expansion valve (it's a huge PITA to get to on the 3.4's) as my system was still blowing ice cold, just the magnetic clutch was activating occasionally on it's own. I just pulled the wire to disable it until I got around to fixing it.

the more I do on my vehicles, the easier everything seems to actually turn out; AC is pretty easy. 5 years ago I could do not much more than change oil, now I'm supercharged, rebuilding, engine tuning, heavy modifications like solid axle swaps, engine swaps, etc. I do my own timing belts now too after a shop nearly deadlined my engine by re-using a non-reusable bolt on the crankshaft pulley. It's another addiction that thins my wallet out way too quickly!

First time I did AC I had a shop do the evacuation/recharge I did all the mechanical work; for the labor and cost of refrigerant and 'shop materials' I could have easily bought my own machine for the same price. So harbor freight or summitracing.com will get my money next time and I will be set up on my own.

anyone ever needs any Toyota 4x4 vehicle info, hit me up!

That's how I started working on cars. When I was young if it broke I walked. Didn't much care for walking so I learned how to fix it.