Small engines and crappy ethanol gas

[Slabsides]

Is it just me, or is this s#!++^ gas messing up small engines. In the past week, my generator, lawn tractor and chainsaw refused to start. I flushed the few-month old gas from them and added new and they started right up. My chainsaw's fuel lines in the tank CRUMBLED. They were eaten away to nothing!

I've been storing stuff seasonally (with Sta-bil if long term) for over 25 years and never had this kind of trouble. These items only sat maybe 3-4 months.

Did I just hit a streak of bad luck with small engines, or is this 10% ethanol gas that bad?

[Shooter45]

The 10% ethanol gas is that bad.

Use 100% gas in any small engine.

[TheGunClinger]

Yup, the crappy gas can mess up most everything. I have a lawn service and I have to add some stuff that nutralizes the ethenal. Cant remember the name, but if you go to any auto parts store, they will point you in the right direction. Otherwise your equipment will take a shi*..

[rentalguy1]

Originally Posted by Shooter45

The 10% ethanol gas is that bad.

Use 100% gas in any small engine.

^ THIS...same goes for boats, unless they are new(ish) and the owner's manual states that they are rated for 10% ethanol. Even then do so at your own peril. I personally won't run it in anything. I pay a little more at the mom n pop station to get ethanol free...unless they are scamming me.

[Slabsides]

Around here, there is nothing but 10% ethanol. The last station to have real gas is out of business. I have no choice.

This burns me up that we pay so much for CRAP. I would pay more for REAL gas. The ethanol BS is all a scam anyway. A few people are getting very rich off of us......to grow stuff to blend in our gas so it can tear up our equipment.

[Chinook]

Sta-Bil does nothing to counteract the ill effects of Ethanol, it just prevents the carbon molecules from seperating, breaking down and essentailly, "de-stabilizing" the base fuel. Great for storing, but not as an additive to negate Ethanol issues.

Star-Tron's, Star-Brite Enzyme Fuel Treatment. This is what I have been using in all of my small engines, and 2 stroke boat motors for years. Never ever, ever had a problem with fuel delivery, disentegrated lines, or water seperation. It is the only thing I can recommend with confidence. And Ive tried almost everything!

[H-D]

Ethanol is evil! Harley has a product that is supposed to counteract the ethanol but I try to avoid it now that I have found a small station that doesnt have it I have replaced the fuel line on my bike 3 times and the petcock and the fuel line on my mower I had a guy who is supposed to know his stuff tell me that ethanol is fine as long as it doesnt sit in your tank over a week ... my mower sits all winter w/ sta-bil but its crud in the spring

[300 H&H]

Many of us midwesterners had problems way back when E10 was first here. But these went away, as the infrustructure that gasoline is handled in, is cleaned out....The various heavy components in gasoline are on the bottom of all your bulk fuel tanks. Ethanol will loosen these up, and they will be pumped into your tank. Fuel filters clog ect...

Harley Davidson should be ashamed of themselves if they are using fuel lines not so rated. So the same for all engine manufactures. They have had plenty of time to get compatable with E10, there should be no excuses....

I hope with time you experiance trouble free E10 use, like we have enjoyed for many years now. Here at least, if this topic is brought up you will get a collective yawn.

Best regards, Kirk

[rcairflr]

Originally Posted by Slabsides

Is it just me, or is this s#!++^ gas messing up small engines. In the past week, my generator, lawn tractor and chainsaw refused to start. I flushed the few-month old gas from them and added new and they started right up. My chainsaw's fuel lines in the tank CRUMBLED. They were eaten away to nothing!

I've been storing stuff seasonally (with Sta-bil if long term) for over 25 years and never had this kind of trouble. These items only sat maybe 3-4 months.

Did I just hit a streak of bad luck with small engines, or is this 10% ethanol gas that bad?

Use Star-Tron and Marvels Mystery Oil in your gas for small engines. My 12 year old generator starts on the first pulll even after not running for 3 months since I've been doing this. Around here you cannot get non ethanol gasoline.

[nynomad]

I have been using the Marine formula (it's Blue not red) of Sta-Bil and so far it's worked great.

[Awtoman]

Yes Ethanol sucks, and is hard on the fuel systems of any vehicle that is more than a few years old. Various people from the Corn Belt will tell you otherwise, or blame it on other things because it brings Billions of dollars to the region. Doesn't change the facts.

Tom

[carver]

Like a lot of you I have had the same issues with our new gas. We can no longer buy ethanol free gasoline in this part of the country. I tried the Pro-long, and Sta-bil, but found Sea Foam to be the better product. http://www.seafoamsales.com/

[H-D]

Harley Davidson should be ashamed of themselves if they are using fuel lines not so rated. So the same for all engine manufactures. They have had plenty of time to get compatable with E10, there should be no excuses....

mine's a 1996 model so its a carbed model so it uses bulk cut to fit fuel line and I have tried fuel lines from a few diff places (carquest autozone oreilley) and they all start crumbling on the inside and when they do I have to clean the carb out and replace the line (cost about 3 dollars)

[armedandsafe]

Marvel Mystery oil, eh? I use that as a cutting oil when drilling on the lathe. Works great. I just bought a new mower, so I'll try that.

What ratio do you recommend?

Pops

[Slabsides]

Good news: I found a station not too far from home with real gas! Its about .15c more per gallon, but if its the real deal, it's worth it. Found it here http://pure-gas.org

[CampingJosh]

Originally Posted by 300 H&H

Many of us midwesterners had problems way back when E10 was first here. But these went away, as the infrustructure that gasoline is handled in, is cleaned out....The various heavy components in gasoline are on the bottom of all your bulk fuel tanks. Ethanol will loosen these up, and they will be pumped into your tank. Fuel filters clog ect...

Harley Davidson should be ashamed of themselves if they are using fuel lines not so rated. So the same for all engine manufactures. They have had plenty of time to get compatable with E10, there should be no excuses....

I hope with time you experiance trouble free E10 use, like we have enjoyed for many years now. Here at least, if this topic is brought up you will get a collective yawn.

Best regards, Kirk

This has been my experience, too.

My family has two vehicles over 250,000 miles (one closing in on 350,000) that have had E10 as their only fuel source for their entire lives. Both of those vehicles are still running strong, and the higher-mileage one still hauls my brother 800 miles each way to college a couple times each year.

The ethanol exacerbates other problems; it is not the problem itself.

[LDBennett]

In California in the last 10 years they replaced the octane booster formerly used with alcohol. During that same period I owned and used two British Vintage motorcycles, a BSA Lightning and a Rickman Metisse MKIII. Both have fiberglass gas tanks. The alcohol in the CA gas literally melted the bottom seams out of the BSA tank. Hardware store epoxy would not last as I tired to stop all the gas leaks. Finally on that bike I replace the original ruined tank with an aluminum tank.

The Rickman was a MX race bike whose fiberglass tank was brand new in 2000. The alcohol delaminated the tank. I had it repaired and now NEVER store gas in it except for the day it is used. I drain it after every use. To be sure I only run 110 octane leaded race gas. I don't need the octane enhancement but I just want to be sure there is no alcohol in the gas I use.

I have also found that I have to drain every float bowl of every vehicle I have to assure the alcohol gas does stop up the idle jets. That includes the generator in my trailer, my lawn mower, and the grandkids ATV's and small motorcycles.

LDBennett

[Slabsides]

A quick Google search reveals over a million hits on topics related to damage in small engines and boat engines caused by ethanol. This is evidenced by the sharp increase in fuel system-related problems following the introduction of ethanol to our gas.

I expect anyone from a major corn growing state to defend it's use as I likely would if someone attacked cotton or peanuts, which keeps this state healthy. The corn industry has some very powerful lobbies to ensure the gov't subsidies continue, so do not fear damage to your state's income.


Newer items should be built to handle ethanol gas, but I cannot see junking 2 lawn tractors, a push mower, a generator, a leaf blower, a chainsaw and a weed trimmer because they were made when we had real gas. I simply don't have that kind of money.

After seeing its effects firsthand, I will travel as needed to locate real gas.

[Python]

Originally Posted by rcairflr

Use Star-Tron and Marvels Mystery Oil in your gas for small engines. My 12 year old generator starts on the first pulll even after not running for 3 months since I've been doing this. Around here you cannot get non ethanol gasoline.

That's interesting because from what I hear Marvel Oil is basically a mixture of lighter fluid & a fine machine oil.

[rcairflr]

Originally Posted by armedandsafe

Marvel Mystery oil, eh? I use that as a cutting oil when drilling on the lathe. Works great. I just bought a new mower, so I'll try that.

What ratio do you recommend?

Pops

Don't forget the Star-Tron also. Home Depot now sells it.

I use about 1/2 ounce of Star-Tron and 1.5-2 ounces of Marvels in a 2.25 gallon gas can.

[rcairflr]

Originally Posted by Python

That's interesting because from what I hear Marvel Oil is basically a mixture of lighter fluid & a fine machine oil.

I had a 10 year old Honda lawn mower that all of a sudden started running real crappy. So I started putting Marvels and Star-Tron in the gas, within a tank or two it was running like brand new.

Once in awhile I even add Marvels Mystery oil into the gas of my car and F150 truck at a ratio of 4 ounces to 10 gallons of gas.

[rcairflr]

From MMO website


Is Marvel Mystery Oil® safe to use in today’s “high-tech” cars?
Yes! Marvel Mystery Oil is completely safe in today’s high-tech cars and provide the same benefits as it has since 1923-cleaner engines, upper cylinder lubrication, reduced acid and sludge build up, improved fuel economy, clean and lubricated fuel systems and many more!

How much Marvel Mystery Oil® (MMO) do I put in my gasoline tank?
Marvel recommends using 4oz of MMO for every 10 gallons of gasoline.

Can I use MMO with every fill-up?
Yes. In fact many Marvel users who use MMO with every fill-up report significant increases in fuel mileage.

Will MMO cause any damage to oxygen sensors, fuel sensors or catalytic converters?
No. MMO has undergone rigorous testing to ensure the safety of all internal components in your vehicle including highly-sensitive oxygen sensors, fuel sensors and catalytic converters.

Can MMO be use in vehicles with fuel injectors?
Yes. MMO can be used in vehicles with fuel injectors. MMO provides additional lubrication to the injectors and helps prevent the formation of hard carbon deposits on the injectors. Injectors fouled with hard carbon deposits do not perform optimally and reduce mileage and performance.

[Gabob]

Wolfdog who is a mechanic suggested Sea Foam for my 4 wheeler that has some fuel issues. Got a can but have not used it yet

[Gun Geezer]

Marvel Mystery Oil has been around longer than almost any other additive. They used to make a dispenser that bolted under the hood, held a quantity of MMO and metered it through a vacuum hose or PVC hose "tee". I would be very careful what I pour into the fuel or oil on a new or late model car, especially if it's still under warr.

Auto manufacturer's have known for years about the bad effects of ethanol and have developed gas tank materials, fuel lines and carb. and injector components that are unaffected by the ethanol, small engine and marine manufacturers not so much. Built-in fiberglass tanks are especially vulnerable to the effects of the ethanol on the resins and the resulting chemical de-composition, when burned, builds up on valve stems and causes major engine problems in addition to the expensive matter of replacing the glassed-in tanks.

I have been in the automotive business for nearly 40 yrs. and the only additive I use is something for long term storage and a bit of additional lubricity for the injectors on my diesel trucks since they removed most of the sulfur from diesel fuel which used to act as a lubricant. Ultra low sulfur fuels have not been around long enough for the manufacturers to assess any possible problems due to lack of lubricity but I always take precautions. Most manufacturers don't recommend using any fuel or oil additives, except for storage, and base their warranty on the effectiveness of using fuel and lubricants with the proper ratings for their vehicles. A good maintenance program of timely fluid changes and good driving habits will make most late model vehicles last as long as you want to drive them. For example, GM's design parameters for its light-duty truck engines is 250,000 miles without any failure of internal mechanical engine parts and I'm sure other manufacturers do the same.

[Awtoman]

My last post on this subject.

Using Ethanol is like smoking cigarettes. You can use it for a while with no perceived ill effects. But for most people if you use Ethanol long enough, you will have noticeable issues. And just like the cigarette companies, the Ethanol Consortium and its supporters will tell you (in their best Pee Wee Herman voice) that "There's no conclusive evidence that Ethanol harms fuel systems OK." I've fixed automobiles professionally for 30 years.
Most autos made after 2006, and a few before that, are designed for some Ethanol, but almost nothing else is.
You can believe guys like me, or the guys selling corn.

The other gauranteed issue is the mileage reduction, on the order of 5-10%
Don't take my word for it, do your own test. You will always get better fuel mileage with pure gasoline vs. 10% ethanol.

And older vehicles with no closed loop system will run noticeablly lean.

I just rebuilt a 4 barrel Q-Jet carb from a 72 Chevy truck last week. It had been rebuilt 8 years ago. The accelerator pump rubber was ate right off the shaft. I've NEVER seen one rotted like this on the model of carb in 30 years. The power piston was seized in its bore. The epoxy on the well plugs was ate off. No doubt in my mind as to what caused these issues.

I don't sell corn, and I think it's dumb to burn your food.

Tom