The lesser of Two evils is no longer lesser...

Shizamus · 09-11-2003, 09:23 PM

The Lesser of Two Evils Is No Longer Lesser
By Chuck Baldwin
September 12, 2003

Those who believe electing Republicans is going to make a
significant difference in the direction of the country need to open
their eyes to what Republicans are actually doing.

Consider the courageous stand of Alabama Supreme Court Chief
Justice Roy Moore to resist a tyrannical and unconstitutional order
from a federal judge to remove a monument of the Ten
Commandments from the Alabama Judicial Building. Instead of
supporting the brave Chief Justice, Republican leaders in his state
betrayed Roy Moore, ignored the U.S. and Alabama constitutions,
and threw their support behind the federal judge.

It was a Republican governor and a Republican attorney general
who abandoned Judge Moore. Seven of the eight Alabama
Supreme Court justices who voted to suspend Judge Moore were
elected as Republicans. Beyond the state of Alabama, two of the
judges of the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals which ruled against
Judge Moore were Republicans.

Furthermore, President G.W. Bush's chief consultant and
campaign manager, Karl Rove, was also campaign consultant to
Alabama Attorney General Bill Pryor. Rove was also a campaign
consultant to the Alabama lawyer whom Roy Moore defeated in
the race for Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court. Do you
not see a pattern here?

It was also the Republican governor of Alabama Bob Riley who
promoted a huge billion dollar tax increase for his state.
Unfortunately, this kind of chicanery and skullduggery is the norm,
not the exception, for the Republican Party.

Recently, a Washington Post report said, "The era of big
government, if it ever went away, has returned full-throttle under
President Bush.

"A report released by the Brookings Institution think tank and New
York University said the 'true size' of the federal work force,
which includes employees for federal contractors and grant
recipients, grew by more than one million, to 12.1 million, from
October 1999 to October 2002."

In fact, G.W. Bush and his fellow Republicans in Congress have
become the biggest spenders in Washington, D.C., since the
Johnson administration. Furthermore, their efforts regarding
constitutional government, individual freedom, and family issues
are not any better.

The Patriot Act pushed through by President Bush and
congressional leaders just might be the most egregious example of
Orwellian-style government in U.S. history. Its abridgements
against constitutional restrictions to federal encroachments of
personal freedom rival anything that emanates from any
communist country.

We are also watching Republicans around the country fawning
over the candidacy of Arnold Schwarzenegger for California
governor, even though Schwarzenegger is pro-abortion, pro-gay
rights, pro-gun control, and pro-illegal immigration. All that seems
to matter is that he has an "R" behind his name. His commitment
to the Constitution and to conservative principles means nothing!

The sellout by Republicans at both the state and national levels
cannot be ignored or defended! They need to be seen for what they
are: traitors to the cause they claim to represent! As such, they are
more dangerous to the future of America than are Democrats. A
Benedict Arnold is infinitely more dangerous than a General
Cornwallis. One is dressed in a devil's suit and attacks you from
the front; the other one wears angel wings, then stabs you in the
back.

If Republicans in a state such as Alabama cannot muster the
courage to stand with a patriot such as Judge Roy Moore, how can
we expect Republicans in the less conservative areas to do any
better? The answer is, we can't and shouldn't.

The time has come for conservatives to abandon the Republican
Party and to start supporting principled candidates from parties
such as the Constitution Party, because the lesser of two evils is no
longer lesser.

1952Sniper · 09-12-2003, 07:41 AM

Damn good article, Shizamus! I'm going to the Constitution Party myself.

The lack of Republican support for Justice Moore was shocking. If this type of thing had happened in the 1770s, there would have been shots fired. Yet today, no one is even willing to stand up to the Federal government and support the Constitution. I believe in the basic Republican values, but I can no longer support the Republican Party. They have sold us down the river.

Bush ran on a platform of smaller government. I may be one of the few Americans who actually remember the things he said during his campaign. He talked about reducing Federal spending and shrinking the size of government. He talked about a "humble" foreign policy. I even saw a clip the other night from one of his debates in 2000, where he said we should not be telling other countries that they have to do things our way. He talked about bringing the parties together and not playing partisan games. None of that has happened! We were betrayed!

I realize that 9/11 changed a lot. But in my opinion, there is no excuse for the loss of liberty that we have seen under the current administration. There is no excuse for the billions of dollars worth of increased spending. We have seen the government tighten its stranglehold on our collective throats.

I'm so sick of the Republicans and Democrats. Let's just go back to plain old Constitutional values. Stop trying to "get around" the Constitution, stop trying to "interpret" it. Give the powers back to the States and let us run our own damn lives again.

tuckerd1 · 09-12-2003, 10:33 AM

AMEN! I too believe the states should be controlling more of our own business! TOO HELL with the federal government!

I live in Alabama and last Tuesday, over 1 1/4 million voters turned out to vote on Gov. Bob Riley's proposed $1.2 billion tax increase. The proposal was defeated 68%-32%. It was a record voter turnout and it sent a huge message to Gov. Riley and the state government.

"TOO HELL with your blackmail! We want you to cut programs! Don't just threaten us! Do it! Get rid of the waste and unnecessary programs and learn to run things more efficiently. And NO, we don't want any new programs at this time! When you learn to run things right, then talk to us about improvements to existing programs and adding new programs that are necessary. We may give you some more money then! - The People of Alabama"

I do not make a lot of money, but I live comfortably. I give to my church and to some charities. I do not complain about paying for necessary government. But, I am not going to vote myself a tax increase of between $3000-5000 dollars a year just so the idiots running the state do not have to use their brains to figure out how to run things better. DUH!! A NO BRAINER to me!

And now we as a nation need to send the message to Washington that we are fed up with sending our money to them! We need to keep it at the state and local level so we can run our own states!

The soap box is now available to someone else.

09-12-2003, 12:40 PM

I was just thinking this morning about the differances between Rep. and Dem. They change all the time. Both make me sick at times

1952Sniper · 09-12-2003, 12:45 PM

If so many people think like this, then WHY ON EARTH do we keep voting for the same scumbags?

I'm finally to the point where I refuse to do that any more. If there is a Constitution Party candidate on the ballot for any office, that's where my vote goes.

We've got to start making a difference with our votes. We've got to drop this "lesser of two evils" mentality. We should all be voting for the Constitution Party or Libertarian Party or whatever floats your boat. And we should be convincing others to do so as well.

We cannot expect anything to change unless we start the change ourselves.

tuckerd1 · 09-12-2003, 01:16 PM

You're right Sniper. I had made up my mind the other day to vote the next election for a candidate from some other party than Repub or Demo. If a good candidate is available.

But, what do you do if Libertarian, Constitutionist or other parties do not have a decent candidate. Is it still the lesser of the evils?

1952Sniper · 09-12-2003, 01:26 PM

Define "decent candidate".

In my opinion, when it comes to the Republicans and Democrats, there is no such thing as a decent candidate. They are all just puppets to the Party. I am voting on ideals.

The only way I would vote for a Republican is if Ron Paul decides to run. There is a movement to persuade him to run in 2004 at http://www.paul2004.com . If he decides not to run, I will be voting for whoever the Constitution Party has on the ballot.

I would rather have an average Constitutionalist in office than a strong Republican/Democrat.

tuckerd1 · 09-12-2003, 02:03 PM

I wish I knew what a decent candidate was. It has been so long since we've had one. I thought Bush was one, but I guess i was wrong.

Ron Paul would make a good choice.

1952Sniper · 09-12-2003, 02:15 PM

You know, I thought Bush was a decent candidate too. Based on all the campaign promises he made (that I listed above), I was gung-ho for Bush. It's too bad he turned out to have broken ever single one of them.

armedandsafe · 09-13-2003, 10:40 AM

I agree that Ron Paul would make a great candidate. Unfortunately, he has a habit of telling the truth, a fatal flaw in a politician.

pickenup · 09-13-2003, 02:22 PM

I am always getting ragged on because I have been voting 3rd party for years.
I hear the argument that “you are just throwing your vote away”
And “if you do not vote Republican, then it is a vote for the democrats.”

If you notice, over the last number of elections, there are more and more people voting for a third party. If more people would get out of the “mind-set” that ONLY a democrat or a republican will be elected, we could have a chance to vote for someone, that we feel GOOD about voting for. Not the same old “lesser of two evils” Granted the two major parties are the only ones to get elected “now” but in the future (hopefully) more people will come to their senses and realize that neither one of these parties are “for the people” and turn to someone that actually believes in the principals that this great country was founded on. (Not just gun laws.)

There have been a few people elected in recent years that were not one of the two major powers. (not that it always worked out that well) but they WERE elected. We can do the same thing on a larger scale, if (big IF) people would (pull their head out of their neither region) and put some thought into who (and how) they want someone to run this country, and quit voting strictly along the two party line.

If no one is willing to START the change, there can be no change.

It has started, and I hope it gains momentum like a snowball rolling down hill. It will happen someday, the question is, will it be too late? I will continue to throw my vote away (if that is what you want to call it) I go to bed at night with a clear conscience. I did not vote that (whoever, local, state, or federal) into office.

P.S. The last few elections, some of the people and/or issues I voted for/against, actually went my way. Maybe the times are changing.

09-11-2003, 09:23 PM	#1
Shizamus Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Vermont Posts: 891	The lesser of Two evils is no longer lesser... The Lesser of Two Evils Is No Longer Lesser By Chuck Baldwin September 12, 2003 Those who believe electing Republicans is going to make a significant difference in the direction of the country need to open their eyes to what Republicans are actually doing. Consider the courageous stand of Alabama Supreme Court Chief Justice Roy Moore to resist a tyrannical and unconstitutional order from a federal judge to remove a monument of the Ten Commandments from the Alabama Judicial Building. Instead of supporting the brave Chief Justice, Republican leaders in his state betrayed Roy Moore, ignored the U.S. and Alabama constitutions, and threw their support behind the federal judge. It was a Republican governor and a Republican attorney general who abandoned Judge Moore. Seven of the eight Alabama Supreme Court justices who voted to suspend Judge Moore were elected as Republicans. Beyond the state of Alabama, two of the judges of the 11th Circuit Court of Appeals which ruled against Judge Moore were Republicans. Furthermore, President G.W. Bush's chief consultant and campaign manager, Karl Rove, was also campaign consultant to Alabama Attorney General Bill Pryor. Rove was also a campaign consultant to the Alabama lawyer whom Roy Moore defeated in the race for Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court. Do you not see a pattern here? It was also the Republican governor of Alabama Bob Riley who promoted a huge billion dollar tax increase for his state. Unfortunately, this kind of chicanery and skullduggery is the norm, not the exception, for the Republican Party. Recently, a Washington Post report said, "The era of big government, if it ever went away, has returned full-throttle under President Bush. "A report released by the Brookings Institution think tank and New York University said the 'true size' of the federal work force, which includes employees for federal contractors and grant recipients, grew by more than one million, to 12.1 million, from October 1999 to October 2002." In fact, G.W. Bush and his fellow Republicans in Congress have become the biggest spenders in Washington, D.C., since the Johnson administration. Furthermore, their efforts regarding constitutional government, individual freedom, and family issues are not any better. The Patriot Act pushed through by President Bush and congressional leaders just might be the most egregious example of Orwellian-style government in U.S. history. Its abridgements against constitutional restrictions to federal encroachments of personal freedom rival anything that emanates from any communist country. We are also watching Republicans around the country fawning over the candidacy of Arnold Schwarzenegger for California governor, even though Schwarzenegger is pro-abortion, pro-gay rights, pro-gun control, and pro-illegal immigration. All that seems to matter is that he has an "R" behind his name. His commitment to the Constitution and to conservative principles means nothing! The sellout by Republicans at both the state and national levels cannot be ignored or defended! They need to be seen for what they are: traitors to the cause they claim to represent! As such, they are more dangerous to the future of America than are Democrats. A Benedict Arnold is infinitely more dangerous than a General Cornwallis. One is dressed in a devil's suit and attacks you from the front; the other one wears angel wings, then stabs you in the back. If Republicans in a state such as Alabama cannot muster the courage to stand with a patriot such as Judge Roy Moore, how can we expect Republicans in the less conservative areas to do any better? The answer is, we can't and shouldn't. The time has come for conservatives to abandon the Republican Party and to start supporting principled candidates from parties such as the Constitution Party, because the lesser of two evils is no longer lesser. __________________ “The Matrix is a system, Neo, and that system is our enemy. When you are inside, you look around, what do you see? Businessmen, teachers, lawyers, carpenters, the very minds we are trying to save. Until we do, these people are part of that system and that makes them our enemies. You have to understand that most of these people are not ready to be unplugged and many are so hopelessly dependent on the system, they’ll fight to protect it. “The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work, when you go to church, when you pay your taxes. It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.” - Morpheus, in the movie, “The Matrix” -->

09-13-2003, 02:22 PM	#11
pickenup Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains Posts: 6,837	I am always getting ragged on because I have been voting 3rd party for years. I hear the argument that “you are just throwing your vote away” And “if you do not vote Republican, then it is a vote for the democrats.” If you notice, over the last number of elections, there are more and more people voting for a third party. If more people would get out of the “mind-set” that ONLY a democrat or a republican will be elected, we could have a chance to vote for someone, that we feel GOOD about voting for. Not the same old “lesser of two evils” Granted the two major parties are the only ones to get elected “now” but in the future (hopefully) more people will come to their senses and realize that neither one of these parties are “for the people” and turn to someone that actually believes in the principals that this great country was founded on. (Not just gun laws.) There have been a few people elected in recent years that were not one of the two major powers. (not that it always worked out that well) but they WERE elected. We can do the same thing on a larger scale, if (big IF) people would (pull their head out of their neither region) and put some thought into who (and how) they want someone to run this country, and quit voting strictly along the two party line. If no one is willing to START the change, there can be no change. It has started, and I hope it gains momentum like a snowball rolling down hill. It will happen someday, the question is, will it be too late? I will continue to throw my vote away (if that is what you want to call it) I go to bed at night with a clear conscience. I did not vote that (whoever, local, state, or federal) into office. P.S. The last few elections, some of the people and/or issues I voted for/against, actually went my way. Maybe the times are changing. __________________ The gene pool needs chlorine

09-12-2003, 07:41 AM	#2
1952Sniper Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 5,138	Damn good article, Shizamus! I'm going to the Constitution Party myself. The lack of Republican support for Justice Moore was shocking. If this type of thing had happened in the 1770s, there would have been shots fired. Yet today, no one is even willing to stand up to the Federal government and support the Constitution. I believe in the basic Republican values, but I can no longer support the Republican Party. They have sold us down the river. Bush ran on a platform of smaller government. I may be one of the few Americans who actually remember the things he said during his campaign. He talked about reducing Federal spending and shrinking the size of government. He talked about a "humble" foreign policy. I even saw a clip the other night from one of his debates in 2000, where he said we should not be telling other countries that they have to do things our way. He talked about bringing the parties together and not playing partisan games. None of that has happened! We were betrayed! I realize that 9/11 changed a lot. But in my opinion, there is no excuse for the loss of liberty that we have seen under the current administration. There is no excuse for the billions of dollars worth of increased spending. We have seen the government tighten its stranglehold on our collective throats. I'm so sick of the Republicans and Democrats. Let's just go back to plain old Constitutional values. Stop trying to "get around" the Constitution, stop trying to "interpret" it. Give the powers back to the States and let us run our own damn lives again.

09-12-2003, 10:33 AM	#3
tuckerd1 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Paint Rock Valley, Alabama Posts: 3,147	AMEN! I too believe the states should be controlling more of our own business! TOO HELL with the federal government! I live in Alabama and last Tuesday, over 1 1/4 million voters turned out to vote on Gov. Bob Riley's proposed $1.2 billion tax increase. The proposal was defeated 68%-32%. It was a record voter turnout and it sent a huge message to Gov. Riley and the state government. "TOO HELL with your blackmail! We want you to cut programs! Don't just threaten us! Do it! Get rid of the waste and unnecessary programs and learn to run things more efficiently. And NO, we don't want any new programs at this time! When you learn to run things right, then talk to us about improvements to existing programs and adding new programs that are necessary. We may give you some more money then! - The People of Alabama" I do not make a lot of money, but I live comfortably. I give to my church and to some charities. I do not complain about paying for necessary government. But, I am not going to vote myself a tax increase of between $3000-5000 dollars a year just so the idiots running the state do not have to use their brains to figure out how to run things better. DUH!! A NO BRAINER to me! And now we as a nation need to send the message to Washington that we are fed up with sending our money to them! We need to keep it at the state and local level so we can run our own states! The soap box is now available to someone else.

09-12-2003, 12:40 PM	#4
warpig Adnanced Senior Member Posts: n/a	I was just thinking this morning about the differances between Rep. and Dem. They change all the time. Both make me sick at times

09-12-2003, 12:45 PM	#5
1952Sniper Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 5,138	If so many people think like this, then WHY ON EARTH do we keep voting for the same scumbags? I'm finally to the point where I refuse to do that any more. If there is a Constitution Party candidate on the ballot for any office, that's where my vote goes. We've got to start making a difference with our votes. We've got to drop this "lesser of two evils" mentality. We should all be voting for the Constitution Party or Libertarian Party or whatever floats your boat. And we should be convincing others to do so as well. We cannot expect anything to change unless we start the change ourselves.

09-12-2003, 01:16 PM	#6
tuckerd1 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Paint Rock Valley, Alabama Posts: 3,147	You're right Sniper. I had made up my mind the other day to vote the next election for a candidate from some other party than Repub or Demo. If a good candidate is available. But, what do you do if Libertarian, Constitutionist or other parties do not have a decent candidate. Is it still the lesser of the evils?

09-12-2003, 01:26 PM	#7
1952Sniper Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 5,138	Define "decent candidate". In my opinion, when it comes to the Republicans and Democrats, there is no such thing as a decent candidate. They are all just puppets to the Party. I am voting on ideals. The only way I would vote for a Republican is if Ron Paul decides to run. There is a movement to persuade him to run in 2004 at http://www.paul2004.com . If he decides not to run, I will be voting for whoever the Constitution Party has on the ballot. I would rather have an average Constitutionalist in office than a strong Republican/Democrat.

09-12-2003, 02:03 PM	#8
tuckerd1 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Paint Rock Valley, Alabama Posts: 3,147	I wish I knew what a decent candidate was. It has been so long since we've had one. I thought Bush was one, but I guess i was wrong. Ron Paul would make a good choice.

09-12-2003, 02:15 PM	#9
1952Sniper Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: Texas Posts: 5,138	You know, I thought Bush was a decent candidate too. Based on all the campaign promises he made (that I listed above), I was gung-ho for Bush. It's too bad he turned out to have broken ever single one of them.

09-13-2003, 10:40 AM	#10
armedandsafe Former Guest Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Moses Lake, WA Posts: 10,344	I agree that Ron Paul would make a great candidate. Unfortunately, he has a habit of telling the truth, a fatal flaw in a politician.