3000 yd capability! - The Firearms Forum

JLA · 09-30-2011, 07:45 PM

When will firearms evolution stop! This thing is awesome! I almost want one..

http://blackdiamondrifles.com/338_SnipeTac.html

Brisk44 · 09-30-2011, 07:51 PM

Want one? I NEED one!!!!!

Albtraum · 09-30-2011, 07:54 PM

That is crazy! Sub 1/2 MOA at 1000 yards.... I wonder what is used to support and rest that rifle? Let alone the scope and magnification used. I want to see what that "338-408 Improved" cartridge looks like.

JLA · 09-30-2011, 08:04 PM

Stu had a dummy at the shop. Its a .408 cheytac necked down to .338. putting it loosely.. ITS MASSIVE! case probably holds about 200 grains of powder and pushes a 300 gr SMK to 3300 fps.

heres a pic of it with its parent and others for size comparison..

Albtraum · 09-30-2011, 09:13 PM

Gnarly.

American Leader · 09-30-2011, 09:56 PM

Those shiney cartridges lined up like that are one of the prettiest things I have ever seen!

joncutt87 · 09-30-2011, 11:35 PM

Its like a 21st century version of the .270

hunter29180 · 10-01-2011, 07:34 AM

I noticed they had a pistol capable of 1 mile shots too!!

lonewolf204 · 10-01-2011, 08:16 AM

Looks like a fun rifle to shoot! 3000 yards is a long way, But I think it would be fun.

pkcgbifaid · 10-01-2011, 09:08 AM

WOW!!

I wouldn't mind getting my hands on one of those, but YIKES the $$$$!

warriflefan · 10-01-2011, 09:49 AM

That camo breakup stock looks sweet, I wonder how much difference in recoil there is between it and the laminate.

JLA · 10-01-2011, 07:43 PM

I wouldnt mind giving 3K a shot or 5. I think it would be cool to film the vapor trail with a telephoto lens

Regular Joe · 10-02-2011, 04:35 AM

At roughly 2 miles, conditions would have to be perfect. We have other stuff that comes into play at that distance. It's a fun idea to play with, but has ZERO practical application. If the established record is owned by the .338 Lapua, and then the next step is .50, I doubt that any military is going to invest in this thing, esp. since it fires the very same bullet as the Lapua.

permafrost · 10-02-2011, 04:57 AM

Will it never end? My head hurts! I was making good shots at 300 yds yesterday with my AR and thought I was really doing something! Took me most of the day to get there..... I'm going back to my Win 94 where I belong!

JLA · 10-02-2011, 12:37 PM

im with ya PF. Im hunting rifle season with irons this year..

JLA · 10-02-2011, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Regular Joe

At roughly 2 miles, conditions would have to be perfect. We have other stuff that comes into play at that distance. It's a fun idea to play with, but has ZERO practical application. If the established record is owned by the .338 Lapua, and then the next step is .50, I doubt that any military is going to invest in this thing, esp. since it fires the very same bullet as the Lapua.

It isnt a military application. Its a wildcat that is catching on among LR benchrest shooters. Stuart is actually looking intoi having a rifle built for it and competing.

Aside from the .338 Lapua firing the very same bullet it really isnt a comparison. the snipe-tac trumps the lapua by over 300 fps with the exact same bullet, which adds a couple hundred extra yard to its effective range. Thats all competitive rifle nuts look for in a newfangled round...

Ever heard of the .300 Tejas? Same idea.. For all intents and purposes it is the same as the .300 RUM, but since it has a blown out shoulder and less body taper (essentially an ackley improved) can hold quite a bit more powder and is capable of propelling a 180 gr .30 cal bullet to 3800 fps. The RUM, its parent case, is only capable of 3300 maximum with the same 180 grainers..

Its stuff liek this that keeps the shooting public on their toes. And its stuff like this thats the reason our armies arent still hacking each other up with swords and axes.

Firearms evolution my friend.

Country101 · 10-05-2011, 09:01 AM

I could stand to have one, but probably not for the price. I shudder to think what one of those rifles cost and even tremble at the though of the cost of the ammunition......

Regular Joe · 10-06-2011, 12:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLA

It isnt a military application. Its a wildcat that is catching on among LR benchrest shooters. Stuart is actually looking intoi having a rifle built for it and competing.

Aside from the .338 Lapua firing the very same bullet it really isnt a comparison. the snipe-tac trumps the lapua by over 300 fps with the exact same bullet, which adds a couple hundred extra yard to its effective range. Thats all competitive rifle nuts look for in a newfangled round...

Ever heard of the .300 Tejas? Same idea.. For all intents and purposes it is the same as the .300 RUM, but since it has a blown out shoulder and less body taper (essentially an ackley improved) can hold quite a bit more powder and is capable of propelling a 180 gr .30 cal bullet to 3800 fps. The RUM, its parent case, is only capable of 3300 maximum with the same 180 grainers..

Its stuff liek this that keeps the shooting public on their toes. And its stuff like this thats the reason our armies arent still hacking each other up with swords and axes.

Firearms evolution my friend.

Actually, that was all covered during WWII. We found out pretty much everything there was to be learned about ballistic performance by the time it was over. Developments since then all have to work within the very same pressure and velocity limits that were found through development in that era. A bit of refinement has happened since then, such as the .308 pretty much equaling the .30-'06 by running a bit higher pressure, and finding that high velocity .22 cal. ammo is pretty deadly on humans; etc...
The evolution is over, and now we're pretty much chasing our tails over the same set of facts, which are determined by known limits. Now, if we can develop a shoulder fired weapon that launches a 10 gr. chunk of porcelain with plasma to a velocity of around 15,000 fps (feasible), we will be once again evolving.....

popgun · 10-07-2011, 09:13 PM

nice post on how it compares to 338 Lapua

308 at my gate · 10-07-2011, 09:34 PM

The fact that they have the technology to build something like this is truely amazing in my book. Powders, bullets, primers, brass, steel for the barrels and the maching have truly evolved into making rifles better than ever.

Regular Joe · 10-08-2011, 04:54 AM

Do a little bit of reading here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8.8_cm_PaK_43
In WWII, Germany used the 88mm cannon very widely. Note that it fired a 17 lb. armor piercing round at just over 3,700 fps. Experimental models were fitted with barrels that tapered on the inside, and also had progressively accelerating twist rates. That was 60 years ago.
A coupla' decades back, one of the gun rags did a little test run with the "Eargeshplittenloudenboomer", which was a 378 Weatherby necked to .22 cal. to determine the fastest that a bullet could be propelled in a rifled barrel. They came up with something around 5,300 fps.
P.O. Ackley did all of this in the '40's, and found the same figure with rifled, and about 6,000 fps with a smooth bore. We are certainly NOT dealing with "new" or "evolved" technology here! We are chasing our tails over old and previously proven stuff.
If you want to see gun research at the quintessential maximum in all of human history, check this little piece about the German 800 mm rail gun. Shells weighed something like 7,900 lbs. and yes, this was 60+ years ago.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAxySDG_jjs

al45lc · 10-10-2011, 09:49 AM

Some fellas from Colorado have made shots to 3000+ yds on prairie dogs and scored, using a custom railgun and wildcat caliber based on the .338 Lapua case. I can tell you that the rifle in the picture wouldn't do it, the scope is way too much in line with the bore. I believe that the one on the railgun had a mount 4" higher than the front. The article is in the July 2008 issue of Varmint Hunter magazine.

Jim K · 10-10-2011, 11:29 AM

Reminds me a bit of those cheap binoculars advertised to let you see things at 210 feet. Heck, I can see the sun without binoculars and it is 93 million miles away.

Just about any high power rifle will shoot 3000 yards (about 1.7 miles). That rifle may be more accuate than most (and the price reflects it) but 1/2 MOA is not that great any more, and I have a couple of rifles that will do it consistently with the right loads. A rifle that will do 1/2 MOA at 100 yds will do 1/2 MOA at 1000 yards; the reason most won't is the load and bullet, not the rifle.

What they don't say is what angle of departure is needed to get that 3000 yards. They sure don't get it with the rifle and scope as pictured (as al45lc points out).

Jim

09-30-2011, 07:45 PM	#1
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,320	3000 yd capability! When will firearms evolution stop! This thing is awesome! I almost want one.. http://blackdiamondrifles.com/338_SnipeTac.html __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF! -->

09-30-2011, 07:51 PM	#2
Brisk44 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Iowa Contributor Posts: 1,747	Re: 3000 yd capability! Want one? I NEED one!!!!!

09-30-2011, 07:54 PM	#3
Albtraum Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 635	Re: 3000 yd capability! That is crazy! Sub 1/2 MOA at 1000 yards.... I wonder what is used to support and rest that rifle? Let alone the scope and magnification used. I want to see what that "338-408 Improved" cartridge looks like. Last edited by Albtraum; 09-30-2011 at 11:08 PM.. Reason: image copyright

09-30-2011, 08:04 PM	#4
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,320	Re: 3000 yd capability! Stu had a dummy at the shop. Its a .408 cheytac necked down to .338. putting it loosely.. ITS MASSIVE! case probably holds about 200 grains of powder and pushes a 300 gr SMK to 3300 fps. heres a pic of it with its parent and others for size comparison.. Attached Images __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF! Last edited by JLA; 09-30-2011 at 08:07 PM..

09-30-2011, 09:13 PM	#5
Albtraum Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2011 Posts: 635	Re: 3000 yd capability! Gnarly.

09-30-2011, 09:56 PM	#6
American Leader Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Location: Iowa Contributor Posts: 1,630	Re: 3000 yd capability! Those shiney cartridges lined up like that are one of the prettiest things I have ever seen!

09-30-2011, 11:35 PM	#7
joncutt87 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Kannapolis, NC Contributor Posts: 1,419	Re: 3000 yd capability! Its like a 21st century version of the .270 __________________ Four words to live by: aequitas, veritas, decus, sacrificium

10-01-2011, 07:34 AM	#8
hunter29180 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: in a motorhome where ever we park! Contributor Posts: 1,627	Re: 3000 yd capability! I noticed they had a pistol capable of 1 mile shots too!!

10-01-2011, 08:16 AM	#9
lonewolf204 Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Oklahoma Contributor Posts: 792	Re: 3000 yd capability! Looks like a fun rifle to shoot! 3000 yards is a long way, But I think it would be fun. __________________ Fear is only a word in the mind of the weak!

10-01-2011, 09:08 AM	#10
pkcgbifaid V.I.P. Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Charleston, WV Contributor Posts: 490	Re: 3000 yd capability! WOW!! I wouldn't mind getting my hands on one of those, but YIKES the $$$$! __________________ "...As to the species of exercise, I advise the gun. While this gives a moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise, and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body, and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be the constant companion of your walks." Thomas Jefferson

10-01-2011, 09:49 AM	#11
warriflefan V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Meadow Vista, CA Posts: 239	Re: 3000 yd capability! That camo breakup stock looks sweet, I wonder how much difference in recoil there is between it and the laminate. __________________ "Americans have the right and advantage of being armed - unlike the citizens of other countries whose governments are afraid to trust the people with arms." (James Madison, The Federalist Papers #46 at 243-244) "I have sworn upon the altar of God eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man." (Thomas Jefferson)

10-01-2011, 07:43 PM	#12
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,320	Re: 3000 yd capability! I wouldnt mind giving 3K a shot or 5. I think it would be cool to film the vapor trail with a telephoto lens __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

10-02-2011, 04:35 AM	#13
Regular Joe V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 269	Re: 3000 yd capability! At roughly 2 miles, conditions would have to be perfect. We have other stuff that comes into play at that distance. It's a fun idea to play with, but has ZERO practical application. If the established record is owned by the .338 Lapua, and then the next step is .50, I doubt that any military is going to invest in this thing, esp. since it fires the very same bullet as the Lapua. __________________ Around here, we don't say "Oh shucks", or "oh man". We say Oh BAMA!!

10-02-2011, 04:57 AM	#14
permafrost Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Oklahoma, USA Contributor Posts: 1,771	Re: 3000 yd capability! Will it never end? My head hurts! I was making good shots at 300 yds yesterday with my AR and thought I was really doing something! Took me most of the day to get there..... I'm going back to my Win 94 where I belong! __________________ Stand and Fight

10-02-2011, 12:37 PM	#15
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,320	Re: 3000 yd capability! im with ya PF. Im hunting rifle season with irons this year.. __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

10-05-2011, 09:01 AM	#17
Country101 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Dardanelle, AR Contributor Posts: 2,028	Re: 3000 yd capability! I could stand to have one, but probably not for the price. I shudder to think what one of those rifles cost and even tremble at the though of the cost of the ammunition...... __________________ Gainfully employed= shooting somebody elses bullets and getting paid for it Country101

10-07-2011, 09:13 PM	#19
popgun V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2009 Posts: 403	Re: 3000 yd capability! nice post on how it compares to 338 Lapua Last edited by popgun; 10-07-2011 at 09:14 PM..

10-07-2011, 09:34 PM	#20
308 at my gate Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Lost in SW USA. Posts: 847	Re: 3000 yd capability! The fact that they have the technology to build something like this is truely amazing in my book. Powders, bullets, primers, brass, steel for the barrels and the maching have truly evolved into making rifles better than ever. __________________ You got to love it.

10-08-2011, 04:54 AM	#21
Regular Joe V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 269	Re: 3000 yd capability! Do a little bit of reading here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/8.8_cm_PaK_43 In WWII, Germany used the 88mm cannon very widely. Note that it fired a 17 lb. armor piercing round at just over 3,700 fps. Experimental models were fitted with barrels that tapered on the inside, and also had progressively accelerating twist rates. That was 60 years ago. A coupla' decades back, one of the gun rags did a little test run with the "Eargeshplittenloudenboomer", which was a 378 Weatherby necked to .22 cal. to determine the fastest that a bullet could be propelled in a rifled barrel. They came up with something around 5,300 fps. P.O. Ackley did all of this in the '40's, and found the same figure with rifled, and about 6,000 fps with a smooth bore. We are certainly NOT dealing with "new" or "evolved" technology here! We are chasing our tails over old and previously proven stuff. If you want to see gun research at the quintessential maximum in all of human history, check this little piece about the German 800 mm rail gun. Shells weighed something like 7,900 lbs. and yes, this was 60+ years ago. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAxySDG_jjs __________________ Around here, we don't say "Oh shucks", or "oh man". We say Oh BAMA!! Last edited by Regular Joe; 10-09-2011 at 04:13 AM..

10-10-2011, 09:49 AM	#22
al45lc Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: colorful colorado Posts: 1,016	Re: 3000 yd capability! Some fellas from Colorado have made shots to 3000+ yds on prairie dogs and scored, using a custom railgun and wildcat caliber based on the .338 Lapua case. I can tell you that the rifle in the picture wouldn't do it, the scope is way too much in line with the bore. I believe that the one on the railgun had a mount 4" higher than the front. The article is in the July 2008 issue of Varmint Hunter magazine. __________________ You are what you do, when it counts.

10-10-2011, 11:29 AM	#23
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: 3000 yd capability! Reminds me a bit of those cheap binoculars advertised to let you see things at 210 feet. Heck, I can see the sun without binoculars and it is 93 million miles away. Just about any high power rifle will shoot 3000 yards (about 1.7 miles). That rifle may be more accuate than most (and the price reflects it) but 1/2 MOA is not that great any more, and I have a couple of rifles that will do it consistently with the right loads. A rifle that will do 1/2 MOA at 100 yds will do 1/2 MOA at 1000 yards; the reason most won't is the load and bullet, not the rifle. What they don't say is what angle of departure is needed to get that 3000 yards. They sure don't get it with the rifle and scope as pictured (as al45lc points out). Jim