Load Development: Ladder Test

[JLA]

Id love to have ya over. Next you find yourself down my way. look me up.

[howlnmad]

Josh,

You purposely sighted the scope to shoot 2 inches to the right? Having never done a ladder test and at the risk of sounding sturpit, why?

Bill

[JLA]

Originally Posted by howlnmad

Josh,

You purposely sighted the scope to shoot 2 inches to the right? Having never done a ladder test and at the risk of sounding sturpit, why?

Bill

It wasnt necessary for this test, but out of habit, anytime I set up for precise target work, usually group shooting, I will purposely adjust my scope to hit right of the POA so i dont destroy my aiming point. Precise groups rely solely on a precise aim, and you cant hold the crosshairs in exactly the same spot from shot to shot if you shoot a ragged hole in your aiming point on the target. Its all my way of eliminating the guesswork.

[JLA]

I would like everyone here at TFF to feel free to post the results of ladder tests they've performed here in this thread. I ordered the rest of the parts to finish building my Remage .243, but they wont be in for a good 8 weeks. so no ladder test until after Xmas from that, I do still have to true the action and lap the lugs in the meantime plus a few other things when the parts come in. Id like to keep this thread current with fresh data and comments/questions, and if any of you guys come up with any ideas for improvement or whatnot, feel free to post em up..

[howlnmad]

Originally Posted by JLA

It wasnt necessary for this test, but out of habit, anytime I set up for precise target work, usually group shooting, I will purposely adjust my scope to hit right of the POA so i dont destroy my aiming point. Precise groups rely solely on a precise aim, and you cant hold the crosshairs in exactly the same spot from shot to shot if you shoot a ragged hole in your aiming point on the target. Its all my way of eliminating the guesswork.

I was thinking that was the reason but I know I can get myself into some serious trouble by thinking. I can see why the off POA wouldn't be needed on this type of target design. Thank you.

[JLA]

exactly. The next ladder test development I do will be for my remage im working on and ill leave it hitting dead center and probably use this same posterboard for the test. afterall itll be 6mm holes aside the .30 cal holes and i wont be set to hit 2 right of POA

[howlnmad]

Josh,

What size bullseyes did you use to make up that target?

[JLA]

these...

http://www.thompsontarget.com/Produc...stickumup.html

They are about 2" in diameter and have a very visible bullseye at 200 with a 14X magnification. Use whatever you will be able to see well enough hold the EXACT same POA for every shot. Thats the most important thing.

[JLA]

Just prepared another ladder test for my .308. This time lookin for the sweet spot with 168 Hornady AMAX over 2000MR. I took pictures of how I set my ladder tests up to easily keep track of whats in which case. The ones on the far left just off pic are foulers, and the caseheads are primed brass ready to load with the sweet load. Thot this might help with keeping track for those of you guys that have never done a ladder test. The sheet of paper is the number of the round and its corresponding charge. Again, I shoot them from lightest to heavy, FX5 then 1-20.

[The_Rifleman]

Originally Posted by JLA

I would like everyone here at TFF to feel free to post the results of ladder tests they've performed here in this thread.

Here is the last Audette Ladder Test I preformed, I was using a US Model of 1917, Eddystone.
I loaded-up 10 cartridges, I wanted to get the proper vertical POI for 300 yards, (since my sight graduations on this old rifle are fixed.) I of course wanted an accurate load too.

Since I have iron sights I wanted to have the smallest target for a precise POA. I can see a 2moa sized target well at any distance I've tried so far, so I used a 6" white piece of card board on top of a brown piece.

Here is a pic of the ladder test.


The IMR 4064 still had a lot of OOMPH to go, but I stopped at 6 shots since I knew I had the proper POI and my accuracy node was found... I pulled, then loaded-up 3 cartridges with the load specified to test the next day.

Here is a short video of the ladder test, test.
Impossible 30-06 Group

That is the best group I've ever shot with any firearm, scoped or not... Unfortunately, the POI gets higher as opposed to my POA as the distance increases; so that load isn't very useful passed 300 yards.

Here is a short video of a 400 yard vertical POI test.
Not Wasting Anymore Bullets

I do have another 10 shot ladder test loaded to try at 400 yards using Speer 180gr SP bullets. They have a lesser ballistic coefficient and a bit heavier; since I want the load to be a bit slower, and still have some energy.


...


I'd like to add... all those bullets were pulled twice, and the last 3 were pulled 3 times. All the tips were damaged, and it didn't seem to effect accuracy.

[JLA]

Good to have you back rifleman. Where you been?

And good shootn as always!

[rcairflr]

This is a ladder I worked up over the Christmas holidays. Shooting was at 100 yards.

[The_Rifleman]

Originally Posted by JLA

Good to have you back rifleman. Where you been?

I get tired of arguing and it soured me since it seemed like I couldn't get away from it. But I realize it is prevalent everywhere, so I'm back.

Originally Posted by JLA

And good shootn as always!

Thank you!

[howlnmad]

Anyone have an opinion on doing a test at 100 yards with a 30/30? I've lost my 200+ range.

[woolleyworm]

Originally Posted by howlnmad

Anyone have an opinion on doing a test at 100 yards with a 30/30? I've lost my 200+ range.

Even if all you had was a 50yrd range, you can still get vital info and useable results. 100yrds for a 30/30 is quite alright.

[JLA]

Id say so howln. With a really accurate rifle 100 yd results would be a bit difficult to decipher, but a 3 MOA .30-30 would prolly do OK at 100.

I did my .44 mag ladder test at 50 yds, then group tested at 100. Developed a 2 MOA .44 mag levergun load that way.

[The_Rifleman]

Originally Posted by JLA

100 yd results would be a bit difficult to decipher

Yep, you'll probably come up with a target that will look like this.



I did find a good load from it though.

[howlnmad]

I plan to use a target like the one Josh uses and then post a picture of it and let you folks decipher it for me.

[woolleyworm]

Originally Posted by howlnmad

I plan to use a target like the one Josh uses and then post a picture of it and let you folks decipher it for me.

Good Luck Howl'n; just remember to keep it all consistent and take your time. I make one pull of the Boresnake between each shot. Depending on temps, I take between 5 -10 minutes between shots. The colder it is, the faster. I've never taken barrel temps on a load test, but next time out, I've got an IR temp sensor that I'm taking with me and I'll shoot each shot at the same barrel temp.

[mgatc]

Love the target with the graph lines drawn on it. I think it would be interesting to cut each horizontal line of targets out and connect them end to end. This would clearly illustrate the affects of the barrel oscillations and I think it would make the "sweet spot" jump off the page.

[JLA]

I did just that and it does. The sweet load has a nearly perfectly level line that spans across 4 or more load increments and has almost the exact same POI relative to the POA. Then it abruptly hit high usually, but i did do one where it went low first then extremely high on the next shot after.

[time2shoot]

All i can say is WOW!
This is going to save me lots of powder and bullets. And headakes

[sliclee]

You gotta be kidding this has to be some kind of a joke and I dont get it. Ah ha.

[JLA]

Anything in particular that I can help you to understand?

[68c15]

man, I have to do this!!!!!!

I am just getting into loading and as usual I strive for the utmost precision. some call me anal. if father's Day is good to me I will get my Ruger American -06. I feel a rifle with as good a reputation as that has deserves precise loads.

any advice for me about setting up a few different loads? ie. 130g, 150g, and 180g bullets for different hunting conditions