Lightweight deer gun - Page 2

jack404 · 11-07-2011, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reynolds357

I deal with a lot of hunters who can not shoot paper, much less an animal when the adrenaline dump hits them. I like to ponder what the rifle they are equipped with will accomplish when less than ideal hits are the norm. I do not like the 6mm round for novice hunters. I like to figure in a pretty large forgiveness factor into the equation of round selection.

fair enough ..

we try to get folks reasonably schooled and skilled up before they head out to hunt ...

any greeny or accidental bad vid tape of animals not shot well is ammo for the anti's here ..

the pro gun lobby and the shooters associations got real good this way about a dozen years back now and our licence system now reflects that

permit classes are

target
collectors
hunting .. with basic requirements met before they are granted

part of the fight back here is to push for self regulation ( the socialists like that crap)

and we now look smarter and better than the antis

joncutt87 · 11-07-2011, 07:15 PM

We dont have any regulations on rifles that I can recall. The only pistol regs are larger than .24 caliber and you can't have it with you during bow or bp season.

jack404 · 11-07-2011, 07:27 PM

Here the only critters i CAN hunt with a handgun are ferals

and if its feral , it's in peril

24/7 all year round ( deer camels pigs foxes cat's rabbit's Buffalo all be feral)

cannot hunt natives with a hand gun as a primary weapon .. big no no ..

or any "season" animals ( duck season etc) with a handgun
i think here there is no carry of hand guns in duck shoot's ( too many rules )
i rarely duck shoot ..

Boris · 11-07-2011, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by reynolds357

I deal with a lot of hunters who can not shoot paper, much less an animal when the adrenaline dump hits them. I like to ponder what the rifle they are equipped with will accomplish when less than ideal hits are the norm. I do not like the 6mm round for novice hunters. I like to figure in a pretty large forgiveness factor into the equation of round selection.

So the solution is give a novice jumpy shooter with no skills a weapon with more recoil?

Seen with my own eyes a deer run after being shot with a 375 designed to take down elephants. Even worse was after I crawled on my hands and knees in the tangle he ran into to recover it AFTER a round from the 45 finished it, the original shooter claimed until I cut it open to show him his poor shot placement, he denied even hitting it. Reason was his gun takes elephants down. Pure genius.

My idea of a light weight deer hunting weapon. Is my 25oz Glock. The shocker is with proper shot placement, I have yet to lose a deer after shooting one with it.

You can give anyone a bigger gun. It won't fix chit. Poor skills are fixed ONLY by a good teacher and an even better student. Caliber used is inane. That's why it's called hunting, not shooting....

reynolds357 · 11-07-2011, 07:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boris

So the solution is give a novice jumpy shooter with no skills a weapon with more recoil?

Seen with my own eyes a deer run after being shot with a 375 designed to take down elephants. Even worse was after I crawled on my hands and knees in the tangle he ran into to recover it AFTER a round from the 45 finished it, the original shooter claimed until I cut it open to show him his poor shot placement, he denied even hitting it. Reason was his gun takes elephants down. Pure genius.

My idea of a light weight deer hunting weapon. Is my 25oz Glock. The shocker is with proper shot placement, I have yet to lose a deer after shooting one with it.

You can give anyone a bigger gun. It won't fix chit. Poor skills are fixed ONLY by a good teacher and an even better student. Caliber used is inane. That's why it's called hunting, not shooting....

A .375 H&H does very little damage on game the size of a deer. Hyper velocity turns poor shots into killing shots. Big slow bullets just punch nice clean holes.
My big rifles do not recoil much. They sound like cannons, but they do not recoil bad at all. I have a 7Rum that kicks like a .243. I have a 7WSM that kicks like a .223. For comparison, I have a .30-06 that kicks like a pack mule on steroids.

JLA · 11-07-2011, 08:01 PM

To each his own I suppose in this case.. I hunt with great respect for my quarry. If im not absolutely 100% sure the bullet is going to kill cleanly and swiftly I dont take the shot. Thats the way I was taught to hunt by my grandfather and if he learned I was killing otherwise hed tan my hide with a razor strap and take all my guns away.

Were getting a bit off subject here anyway.. Back on track fellas.. Were tossing Mr Jon some ideas about a good deer gun for Miss Ashley. Nothing more and nothing less. And as a general rule, the .243 is ideal for a beginner deer gun. Granted the shooter has to be able to put the metal in the meat where its gonna do the most good.

jack404 · 11-07-2011, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JLA

To each his own I suppose in this case.. I hunt with great respect for my quarry. If im not absolutely 100% sure the bullet is going to kill cleanly and swiftly I dont take the shot. Thats the way I was taught to hunt by my grandfather and if he learned I was killing otherwise hed tan my hide with a razor strap and take all my guns away.

Good on Both your grandfather and you ...

JLA · 11-07-2011, 08:19 PM

And its the way my kids are taught to hunt as well. The boys and I have watched game wander by, unbeknownst to our presence, because they wouldnt present me with a clean shot opportunity.

Heck i remember the first year I had Autumn in the blind with me. 3 doe came trotting accross the hay field in front of us. they never would stop. just a steady pace all the way across. Autumn later asked why i didnt shoot one.. I explained to her that there was a good chance Id miss the vitals and only hurt the deer becaus ethey were running. She said but the deer would probably die in the woods though right. I said yes, probably, but not before suffering for a long time first. And she said, Dad thats a nice thing to do for the deer. Im glad they die fast so they wont be hurt. I said, I am too.

One of the best hunting moments of my life.

joncutt87 · 11-07-2011, 08:23 PM

Thats how I was taught too, she was shooting great with the .30's I just think that they scared her a little.

Sandman · 11-08-2011, 09:22 AM

I have been hunting with a .243 for almost 30 years. I got it when I was 10, but it is still my favorite rifle. I would guess that I have shot about 20 deer with it along with some turkeys, a few hogs, javelinas, etc. The longest a deer ever ran was about 100 yards, and it was hit in the heart and left a blood trail about two feet wide. Many have dropped in their tracks, a few have run 50 to 100 feet. I have never been in danger of losing one. A couple of years back I shot a big hog at 225 yards and it dropped like a rock. If you put the bullet in the vitals, they will go down, and quickly.

I am training my two daughters right now. I will start them on a .222 or .223. Some might feel those rifles are too small. I do not. The girls will NOT bring them to the deer stand until they have proven to me at the range that they can put the bullet in the vitals EVERY time, and even then, I will limit their shots to ranges they are comfortable at. They have been working on it for some time and are getting better every time, but neither is at the point where they will get to bring a rifle along this year. When they are big enough to handle the recoil I will get them each a .243 and that will probably be the last rifle I buy them.

carver · 11-08-2011, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joncutt87

Thats how I was taught too, she was shooting great with the .30's I just think that they scared her a little.

Sounds like what she might need is a little more time behind the gun! If she likes it, it fits her, then let her shoot it a bunch, that fear will go away. And as she become more familure with the gun, her groups will improve. I recomended the Lever gun due to the fact that they shoot hand gun caliber bullets, not much recoil, and they are light weight.

jacksonco · 11-08-2011, 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joncutt87

The .30-06, .30-30, .300sav, and 7.62x39 have more recoil than she likes

I don't remember which one but at least one of the major ammo manufacturers produce low recoil offerings in some of their center-fire offerings. You may want to check that out unless you are just looking for a reason to get another gun.

gcalloway · 11-08-2011, 01:39 PM

I am a big fan of the .243, with 100 grain bullets on deer. I have killed my share of hogs with that load as well. It is bullet placement that matters. The hogs I killed are all neck shots. You should have your charge shoot enough to be comfortable with the gun and the load and you watch enough of it to know what their capable of. I would be hard pressed to let a novice hunter take a shot over 100 yards even if they were using a heat seeking missle. I have a Handy Rifle in 243 topped with a 4X scope, I usually use with novice hunters. That way you give them 1 bullet at a time so when they shoot you know the gun is empty and a bit safer. MY personal 243 is a Styer with a 24 inch barrel and is is efffective out to 300 yards and even to 400 yards if the wind is quite. For long range shooting I prefer my 338 Remington Untra Mag with 250 grain bullets. Holds its head better.

reynolds357 · 11-08-2011, 01:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jacksonco

I don't remember which one but at least one of the major ammo manufacturers produce low recoil offerings in some of their center-fire offerings. You may want to check that out unless you are just looking for a reason to get another gun.

That would be Remington. Have never shot them but seen plenty of them at Academy sports.

reynolds357 · 11-08-2011, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gcalloway

I am a big fan of the .243, with 100 grain bullets on deer. I have killed my share of hogs with that load as well. It is bullet placement that matters. The hogs I killed are all neck shots. You should have your charge shoot enough to be comfortable with the gun and the load and you watch enough of it to know what their capable of. I would be hard pressed to let a novice hunter take a shot over 100 yards even if they were using a heat seeking missle. I have a Handy Rifle in 243 topped with a 4X scope, I usually use with novice hunters. That way you give them 1 bullet at a time so when they shoot you know the gun is empty and a bit safer. MY personal 243 is a Styer with a 24 inch barrel and is is efffective out to 300 yards and even to 400 yards if the wind is quite. For long range shooting I prefer my 338 Remington Untra Mag with 250 grain bullets. Holds its head better.

Thats quite a contrasting pair .243win and .338 Rum.

joncutt87 · 11-15-2011, 02:21 PM

Went to wally world on sunday, she held the savage and remington. She liked the bolt on the remington better, but it was still too heavy. Then the guy at the counter threw out another option, the circuit judge. She's in love.
http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/2BRZSCJ4510SS-1.html

carver · 11-15-2011, 02:36 PM

John, the CJ ain't the most accurate gun you could have chosen! Why not take a look at the .357, or .44Mag, lever guns?

reynolds357 · 11-15-2011, 03:26 PM

You could just go get you a Remington 7. I know a 4 year old that hunts with one. 7-08 is my chambering of choice, but you have quite a wide variety of anything that tickles your fancy to choose from.

joncutt87 · 11-15-2011, 04:20 PM

Nothing is in stone yet

JLA · 11-15-2011, 04:32 PM

The circuit judge is rifled with a slow twist so it doesnt disperse the shot too quickly when using .410 shells. it makes the .45 colt slugs destabilize quickly and theyll likely have a shotgun pattern at as little as 100 yds. If that fit her well then I think the leverguns chambered in any of the revolver cartridges will fit her similarly. Look into a Marlin 1894, or a puma M92 or rossi M92 carbine. Those can be had at around 400 bux for a NIB one. And one chambered in .44 mag would drop a deer or hog DRT out to 100 yds easy.

Airdale · 11-15-2011, 05:21 PM

Gonna agree with Josh and Carver on the lever guns. I've got a .44 Mag Marlin and you'd be surprised how soft it shoots. I think if she liked the CJ she'll probably like the Lever actions weighing in at about 6.5 lbs.

Check this out http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/56496

joncutt87 · 11-15-2011, 08:24 PM

Next time we head to bps I'll see if they stock a .44

Albtraum · 11-18-2011, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jack404

1 x .17 Hmr ( never again ... got rid of it )

I'm interested in the details

okiefired · 11-18-2011, 09:36 PM

How bout a Remmy 700 Mountain LSS in 7-08? 6.5 lbs, stainless, laminate with a 9.25 twist. Mild recoil and plenty to knock any whitetail down even at good distance. Lots of good bullets to choose from.

okie

Pagrizz · 11-18-2011, 10:00 PM

I have to go with the 25-06.I have shot praire dogs out to 500 yards ,mule deer at 300 and saw an 11 year old boy take a moose with one.The one I have[ Remington 700 Classic] is very accurate with just about every bullet weight I have tried in it.The recoil is low enough that my grandson can handle it.

11-07-2011, 07:15 PM	#27
joncutt87 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Kannapolis, NC Contributor Posts: 1,419	Re: Lightweight deer gun We dont have any regulations on rifles that I can recall. The only pistol regs are larger than .24 caliber and you can't have it with you during bow or bp season. __________________ Four words to live by: aequitas, veritas, decus, sacrificium Last edited by joncutt87; 11-07-2011 at 07:18 PM..

11-07-2011, 07:27 PM	#28
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: Lightweight deer gun Here the only critters i CAN hunt with a handgun are ferals and if its feral , it's in peril 24/7 all year round ( deer camels pigs foxes cat's rabbit's Buffalo all be feral) cannot hunt natives with a hand gun as a primary weapon .. big no no .. or any "season" animals ( duck season etc) with a handgun i think here there is no carry of hand guns in duck shoot's ( too many rules ) i rarely duck shoot .. Last edited by jack404; 11-07-2011 at 07:29 PM..

11-07-2011, 08:01 PM	#31
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,296	Re: Lightweight deer gun To each his own I suppose in this case.. I hunt with great respect for my quarry. If im not absolutely 100% sure the bullet is going to kill cleanly and swiftly I dont take the shot. Thats the way I was taught to hunt by my grandfather and if he learned I was killing otherwise hed tan my hide with a razor strap and take all my guns away. Were getting a bit off subject here anyway.. Back on track fellas.. Were tossing Mr Jon some ideas about a good deer gun for Miss Ashley. Nothing more and nothing less. And as a general rule, the .243 is ideal for a beginner deer gun. Granted the shooter has to be able to put the metal in the meat where its gonna do the most good. __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

11-07-2011, 08:19 PM	#33
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,296	Re: Lightweight deer gun And its the way my kids are taught to hunt as well. The boys and I have watched game wander by, unbeknownst to our presence, because they wouldnt present me with a clean shot opportunity. Heck i remember the first year I had Autumn in the blind with me. 3 doe came trotting accross the hay field in front of us. they never would stop. just a steady pace all the way across. Autumn later asked why i didnt shoot one.. I explained to her that there was a good chance Id miss the vitals and only hurt the deer becaus ethey were running. She said but the deer would probably die in the woods though right. I said yes, probably, but not before suffering for a long time first. And she said, Dad thats a nice thing to do for the deer. Im glad they die fast so they wont be hurt. I said, I am too. One of the best hunting moments of my life. __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

11-07-2011, 08:23 PM	#34
joncutt87 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Kannapolis, NC Contributor Posts: 1,419	Re: Lightweight deer gun Thats how I was taught too, she was shooting great with the .30's I just think that they scared her a little. __________________ Four words to live by: aequitas, veritas, decus, sacrificium

11-08-2011, 09:22 AM	#35
Sandman Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Louisiana Posts: 552	Re: Lightweight deer gun I have been hunting with a .243 for almost 30 years. I got it when I was 10, but it is still my favorite rifle. I would guess that I have shot about 20 deer with it along with some turkeys, a few hogs, javelinas, etc. The longest a deer ever ran was about 100 yards, and it was hit in the heart and left a blood trail about two feet wide. Many have dropped in their tracks, a few have run 50 to 100 feet. I have never been in danger of losing one. A couple of years back I shot a big hog at 225 yards and it dropped like a rock. If you put the bullet in the vitals, they will go down, and quickly. I am training my two daughters right now. I will start them on a .222 or .223. Some might feel those rifles are too small. I do not. The girls will NOT bring them to the deer stand until they have proven to me at the range that they can put the bullet in the vitals EVERY time, and even then, I will limit their shots to ranges they are comfortable at. They have been working on it for some time and are getting better every time, but neither is at the point where they will get to bring a rifle along this year. When they are big enough to handle the recoil I will get them each a .243 and that will probably be the last rifle I buy them.

11-08-2011, 01:39 PM	#38
gcalloway V.I.P. Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Atlanta Posts: 88	Re: Lightweight deer gun I am a big fan of the .243, with 100 grain bullets on deer. I have killed my share of hogs with that load as well. It is bullet placement that matters. The hogs I killed are all neck shots. You should have your charge shoot enough to be comfortable with the gun and the load and you watch enough of it to know what their capable of. I would be hard pressed to let a novice hunter take a shot over 100 yards even if they were using a heat seeking missle. I have a Handy Rifle in 243 topped with a 4X scope, I usually use with novice hunters. That way you give them 1 bullet at a time so when they shoot you know the gun is empty and a bit safer. MY personal 243 is a Styer with a 24 inch barrel and is is efffective out to 300 yards and even to 400 yards if the wind is quite. For long range shooting I prefer my 338 Remington Untra Mag with 250 grain bullets. Holds its head better. __________________ Success: Before everything else, getting ready is the secret of success. - Henry Ford

11-15-2011, 02:21 PM	#41
joncutt87 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Kannapolis, NC Contributor Posts: 1,419	Re: Lightweight deer gun Went to wally world on sunday, she held the savage and remington. She liked the bolt on the remington better, but it was still too heavy. Then the guy at the counter threw out another option, the circuit judge. She's in love. http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/2BRZSCJ4510SS-1.html __________________ Four words to live by: aequitas, veritas, decus, sacrificium

11-15-2011, 02:36 PM	#42
carver TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: DAV, Deep in the Pineywoods of East Texas, just west of Shreveport, LA Contributor Posts: 11,219	Re: Lightweight deer gun John, the CJ ain't the most accurate gun you could have chosen! Why not take a look at the .357, or .44Mag, lever guns? __________________ Y'all be safe now, ya hear! Lamentations Chapter 5: 1. Remember, O LORD, what is come upon us: consider, and behold our reproach. 2. Our inheritance is turned to strangers, our houses to aliens. 3. We are orphans and fatherless, our mothers [are] as widows. 5. Our necks [are] under persecution: we labour, [and] have no rest. 16. The crown is fallen [from] our head: woe unto us, that we have sinned! 21. Turn thou us unto thee, O LORD, and we shall be turned; renew our days as of old.

11-15-2011, 03:26 PM	#43
reynolds357 Former Guest Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Georgia Posts: 707	Re: Lightweight deer gun You could just go get you a Remington 7. I know a 4 year old that hunts with one. 7-08 is my chambering of choice, but you have quite a wide variety of anything that tickles your fancy to choose from.

11-15-2011, 04:20 PM	#44
joncutt87 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Kannapolis, NC Contributor Posts: 1,419	Re: Lightweight deer gun Nothing is in stone yet __________________ Four words to live by: aequitas, veritas, decus, sacrificium

11-15-2011, 04:32 PM	#45
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,296	Re: Lightweight deer gun The circuit judge is rifled with a slow twist so it doesnt disperse the shot too quickly when using .410 shells. it makes the .45 colt slugs destabilize quickly and theyll likely have a shotgun pattern at as little as 100 yds. If that fit her well then I think the leverguns chambered in any of the revolver cartridges will fit her similarly. Look into a Marlin 1894, or a puma M92 or rossi M92 carbine. Those can be had at around 400 bux for a NIB one. And one chambered in .44 mag would drop a deer or hog DRT out to 100 yds easy. __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

11-15-2011, 05:21 PM	#46
Airdale Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: N.W. Arkansas Contributor Posts: 750	Re: Lightweight deer gun Gonna agree with Josh and Carver on the lever guns. I've got a .44 Mag Marlin and you'd be surprised how soft it shoots. I think if she liked the CJ she'll probably like the Lever actions weighing in at about 6.5 lbs. Check this out http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/56496 __________________ "The Utopian schemes of leveling [redistribution of the wealth] and a community of goods [central ownership of the means of production and distribution], are as visionary and impractical as those which vest all property in the crown.[These ideas] are arbitrary, despotic, and, in our government, unconstitutional." Samuel Adams

11-15-2011, 08:24 PM	#47
joncutt87 Advanced Senior Member Join Date: May 2011 Location: Kannapolis, NC Contributor Posts: 1,419	Re: Lightweight deer gun Next time we head to bps I'll see if they stock a .44 __________________ Four words to live by: aequitas, veritas, decus, sacrificium

11-18-2011, 09:36 PM	#49
okiefired V.I.P. Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: OK. Posts: 186	Re: Lightweight deer gun How bout a Remmy 700 Mountain LSS in 7-08? 6.5 lbs, stainless, laminate with a 9.25 twist. Mild recoil and plenty to knock any whitetail down even at good distance. Lots of good bullets to choose from. okie __________________ "If I ever meet a Texacan that hasn't drunk muddy water from a hoof print, I'll shake his hand and buy him a Daniel Webster ceeegar" Rooster Cogburn

11-18-2011, 10:00 PM	#50
Pagrizz Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Pa/Maine Posts: 44	Re: Lightweight deer gun I have to go with the 25-06.I have shot praire dogs out to 500 yards ,mule deer at 300 and saw an 11 year old boy take a moose with one.The one I have[ Remington 700 Classic] is very accurate with just about every bullet weight I have tried in it.The recoil is low enough that my grandson can handle it.