Judging

[cycloneman]

There is a common thought going around about judgement. And i think some people have a misconception about this.

The phrase "judge not least ye be judged"

Ok here is my point. I see many people belive that passing judgemnet on others is not right. For instance i see people who are afraid of calling a fag a fag and passing judgement. In other words I feel like people are afraid to say they think gay is wrong because they think they are not supost to pass judgement on others.

I dont think the Bible is telling us not to pass judgement but rather it is telling us that we will be judged by the same standard we are judging. To me it is simple, the bible means you are not to be a hypocrite. If you judge fags then you better not be one. Judgement is something that is very important to us. We must judge between right and wrong all the time.

Do you find this in people? I think people are afraid to stand up to what is wrong because of this misconception. How do you fell?

[Marlin T]

Originally Posted by cycloneman

Do you find this in people? I think people are afraid to stand up to what is wrong because of this misconception. How do you fell?

Islam is a great example.
While there may be moderate muslims there is nothing moderate about islam.
People are afraid to pass judgement on them, choose to be ignorant, choose to let people be slaughtered.

So I agree, not passing judgement at certain times can be down right evil.
Is that what you were talking about?

[Caneman]

Originally Posted by cycloneman

There is a common thought going around about judgement. And i think some people have a misconception about this.

The phrase "judge not least ye be judged"

Ok here is my point. I see many people belive that passing judgemnet on others is not right. For instance i see people who are afraid of calling a fag a fag and passing judgement. In other words I feel like people are afraid to say they think gay is wrong because they think they are not supost to pass judgement on others.

I dont think the Bible is telling us not to pass judgement but rather it is telling us that we will be judged by the same standard we are judging. To me it is simple, the bible means you are not to be a hypocrite. If you judge fags then you better not be one. Judgement is something that is very important to us. We must judge between right and wrong all the time.

Do you find this in people? I think people are afraid to stand up to what is wrong because of this misconception. How do you fell?

your post is so right on in so many ways!!!

there is a difference between judging and condemning...

Jesus condones judgement, so long as it is righteous (and I let you discern what righteous judging is):

John 7:24 "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment.”

and quite often you have people give the story of the woman caught in adultery to point out that Christians should not judge:

John 8:10-11 "Straightening up, Jesus said to her, 'Woman, where are they? Did no one condemn you?' She said, 'No one, Lord.' And Jesus said, 'I do not condemn you, either. Go. From now on sin no more'.”

Jesus did not condemn her, but He did cast judgement upon her actions when He told her to 'sin no more'.

again, there is a difference between judging others and condemning others, and the world confuses these two...

[RunningOnMT]

When we are told not to judge it is referring to determining guilt and passing condemnation. Of course we can see the actions of others and know they are sin, but it is not for us to condemn them for it. We should instead witness to them and tell them what the Bible says about their conduct and what is God's punishment for sin, and do so in love. We should not ridicule and gossip. Calling someone a "fag" does nothing to help a sinner come to repentance, rather it only demonstrates ones own hostility (hatred) not for the sin but towards the individual.

[ampaterry]

We are to show mercy to those who wrong us, as we want God to show us mercy for our disobedience to him.

God is merciful to us, and - even though we are to condemn sin and wrongoing - we are to be merciful to others rather than condemning them.

I have, in several situations, asked for JUSTICE on a wrongoer -
While I myself am grateful to God for NOT giving justice to me, but rather pardon.

[Bobitis]

How does one differentiate between 'judge' and 'condemn'?

According to the Bible, we are not to judge. Jesus himself judged the gamblers in the temple, pitched a fit, and threw them out. In his mind, they desecrated the temple. Fine. I get it.

Church Bingo nights are different? Or that 'raffle' they offer up?
Wait... That's 'fundraising'.

If ya go by the Book, Jesus died on the cross to give all human kind a choice. Some may call that choice a spritual one in nature. I guess I see it a bit differently.

I make choices all day long. My choices are judgements. Call it what ya want, but choosing and judging are the same thing. Choosing one side of an arguement is the same as judging the other side.

I prefer to judge someone on the content of their character (where have I heard that). If yer gay, I could care less. It's your world. Go on with your life and leave me out of it. I don't care who you sleep with, as it's of no concern to me.

However...
If ya wanna push yer agenda (any agenda) on me, we'll do battle. When you claim you deserve more rights than my 'white, hetero, born in the USA son' gets, I have a problem. I WILL judge you to my dieing breath.

Anyone that thinks they are more worthy than me and mine are subject to my judgement.

Is it a sin? I hope not. I'd hate to go to hell for judging 2% over soy. Or pork over chicken.

[cycloneman]

Originally Posted by RunningOnMT

When we are told not to judge it is referring to determining guilt and passing condemnation. Of course we can see the actions of others and know they are sin, but it is not for us to condemn them for it. We should instead witness to them and tell them what the Bible says about their conduct and what is God's punishment for sin, and do so in love. We should not ridicule and gossip. Calling someone a "fag" does nothing to help a sinner come to repentance, rather it only demonstrates ones own hostility (hatred) not for the sin but towards the individual.

Good answer

Now for me when i use the word fag i am laughing not hating. When i say fudge packing that may have a bit of hate in it. I dont like to use the word gay because gay did not mean homo 50 years ago and in my opinion never will.

[cycloneman]

I guess my point is this. When I was a child my parents would be darn sure not to let anyone know that they thought a certain thing was wrong. I remember them telling me to keep quiet about certain subjects. I dont think that is right. When you see something wrong dont be afraid to be vocal about it. My parents stand is common and I think we dont stand up to wrong actions nearly enough.

[cycloneman]

Originally Posted by Bobitis

Church Bingo nights are different? Or that 'raffle' they offer up?
Wait... That's 'fundraising'.

I agree. Gambling is gambling. Fund raising is a cake sale.

[ampaterry]

Originally Posted by Bobitis

How does one differentiate between 'judge' and 'condemn'?

According to the Bible, we are not to judge. Jesus himself judged the gamblers in the temple, pitched a fit, and threw them out. In his mind, they desecrated the temple. Fine. I get it.

Church Bingo nights are different? Or that 'raffle' they offer up?
Wait... That's 'fundraising'.

If ya go by the Book, Jesus died on the cross to give all human kind a choice. Some may call that choice a spritual one in nature. I guess I see it a bit differently.

I make choices all day long. My choices are judgements. Call it what ya want, but choosing and judging are the same thing. Choosing one side of an arguement is the same as judging the other side.

I prefer to judge someone on the content of their character (where have I heard that). If yer gay, I could care less. It's your world. Go on with your life and leave me out of it. I don't care who you sleep with, as it's of no concern to me.

However...
If ya wanna push yer agenda (any agenda) on me, we'll do battle. When you claim you deserve more rights than my 'white, hetero, born in the USA son' gets, I have a problem. I WILL judge you to my dieing breath.

Anyone that thinks they are more worthy than me and mine are subject to my judgement.

Is it a sin? I hope not. I'd hate to go to hell for judging 2% over soy. Or pork over chicken.

Bob, you are pulling the word "judge" out of context here. Put it back into the verse you find it in, and consider it in light of the REST of the verse.

Judge not, lest you be judged with the same judgment.
IOW, Don't condemn someone for a sin which you yourself commit, or you may find the condemnation which you ask for is placed upon you. This goes along perfectly with what Christ said about removing a splinter from your neighbors eye while you have a beam in your own eye.
Don't harass the neighbor about not tithing when you do not tithe.
Don't point and scream about an adulterer when you are committing adultery yourself.
The direction is NOT to cease Judging, but it is a warning to judge with righteousness.

[Python]

Originally Posted by ampaterry

Bob, you are pulling the word "judge" out of context here. Put it back into the verse you find it in, and consider it in light of the REST of the verse.

Judge not, lest you be judged with the same judgment.
IOW, Don't condemn someone for a sin which you yourself commit, or you may find the condemnation which you ask for is placed upon you. This goes along perfectly with what Christ said about removing a splinter from your neighbors eye while you have a beam in your own eye.
Don't harass the neighbor about not tithing when you do not tithe.
Don't point and scream about an adulterer when you are committing adultery yourself.
The direction is NOT to cease Judging, but it is a warning to judge with righteousness.

Right you are Terry, put into it's proper scriptural perspective, it's the closest thing to "hypocrisy". Another word people today have a problem with is "discrimination". Too many people think that to discriminate is to be prejudice, bigoted, even racist. To discriminate is a good thing, how else could we make decisions between what is right and wrong if we don't discriminate?

[Bobitis]

Originally Posted by ampaterry

Bob, you are pulling the word "judge" out of context here. Put it back into the verse you find it in, and consider it in light of the REST of the verse.

Judge not, lest you be judged with the same judgment.
IOW, Don't condemn someone for a sin which you yourself commit, or you may find the condemnation which you ask for is placed upon you. This goes along perfectly with what Christ said about removing a splinter from your neighbors eye while you have a beam in your own eye.
Don't harass the neighbor about not tithing when you do not tithe.
Don't point and scream about an adulterer when you are committing adultery yourself.
The direction is NOT to cease Judging, but it is a warning to judge with righteousness.

I don't think I took it out of context. In fact, I would broaden it a bit.
You put it much more eloquently than I did. That's why you rule this forum.

Originally Posted by Python

Right you are Terry, put into it's proper scriptural perspective, it's the closest thing to "hypocrisy". Another word people today have a problem with is "discrimination". Too many people think that to discriminate is to be prejudice, bigoted, even racist. To discriminate is a good thing, how else could we make decisions between what is right and wrong if we don't discriminate?

I was contemplating using 'hypocrisy' in my post, but felt it would have been misconstrued by some. Therefor my ommission.

I'm not the most religious guy in the camp, and I'm a bit leary of using certain terms as my experience is, it often gets misinterpreted.

[Python]

Originally Posted by Bobitis

I'm not the most religious guy in the camp, and I'm a bit leary of using certain terms as my experience is, it often gets misinterpreted.

I'm the last one to claim to be articulate or eloquent, and I've stepped in a lot of "do-do' because of it. Say whatever it is that you have to say or ask the way you know how, everyone here is here to help interpret and understand. There's only one way to find out, let 'er rip.

[ampaterry]

Bob, I was not attempting to put you down by that 'out of context' remark I made.
From what you said, it seemed that you had considered only the first two words:
"Judge not"
and had not finished the directive with:
"lest you be judged with the same judgment", which restricts the meaning of the sentence. Leaving off the last half of the sentence does indeed broaden the meaning of "judge not", but it broadens it beyond it's original scope.

Christ told us to Judge righteous judgement.
Scripture never contradicts itself, so when he tells us HOW to judge in one place, he is not telling us NOT to judge in another.

GREAT question, though, and one that drives folks into scripture seeking an answer; and that is always a GOOD thing!

[Bobitis]

Terry, I would never have interpreted your response as putting me down.

I come here and speak my piece. In return, I expect to get others opinions.
It's how we learn.

[Python]

Originally Posted by ampaterry

Scripture never contradicts itself

Amen Terry. People don't reject the Bible because it contradicts itself, people reject the Bible because the Bible contradicts them.

[ampaterry]

Python, I have never heard it put better.

I will remember that - -