Working on the Sabbath for Christians , yeah or neigh ?

[Skyking]

thought some might like these

Jim Staley - "And He Rested" - Should Christians Keep the Sabbath?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9C4H-...eature=related
An In-depth Look at the Biblical Sabbath In a culture where businesses are open 24 hours a day, fast food is a regular diet and most families have both spouses working around the clock just to make ends meet, a day of rest is not even on the radar for most Christian households. With the Sabbath being number four in the ten commandments, it is more than important for us to finally answer some of the most imperative questions of our time: Does God really care when we keep the Sabbath or how? Was the Sabbath really changed? Did the early believers keep the Sabbath on the 7th day? Does scripture really say that everyone will be keeping the Sabbath in the millennium? These question and more are answered in what some say is the most comprehensive teaching on the Sabbath you can find!




both articles found here
http://lionlamb.net/v3/YAVOHHeiscoming/2011
For by Grace You are Saved through Faith / December 2011
Is GRACE a spiritual concept brought to the earth for the first time by the Messiah? Or, did it exist in “Old Testament” times with Noah, Abraham, and Moses? If grace didn’t exist before the Messiah came, then how did the previous saints get saved? I ask these questions because many churchmen have differing answers. They view GRACE and LAW as separate things, almost contradictory. But are they really?

Commandments of Sabbath / November 2011
Thus the heavens and the earth were completed, and all their hosts. And by the seventh day God completed His work which He had done; and He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had done. Then God blessed the seventh day and sanctified it, because in it He rested from all His work which God had created and made.

Genesis 2:1-3

[ampaterry]

I don't want to start a Holy War here, but Scripture does not specify which day of the week is the seventh, any more than it specifies which year is the seventh year for other calculations.
I maintain that it only means to work six days and rest on the seventh; nothing about what specific day that is.

One could claim that we needed to observe the same day that God observed in the creation week - but I see no possibility of determining exactly what day of the present week that corresponds to -

[Skyking]

Originally Posted by ampaterry

I don't want to start a Holy War here,

just sharing info is a way for all of us to learn

these might be of interest
Naval Observatory Statement on Changes in Weekly Cycle
http://www.sabbathtruth.com/free-res...kly-cycle.aspx


Calendar Changes

Some point out that the civil calendar was changed in the sixteenth century and that the weekly cycle itself was altered - all over the world - so no one can be certain that Saturday is the true seventh day of the week. Those who use this argument are misinformed. Here are the facts of history: In the year 1582 the Julian calendar (named after the Emperor Julius Caesar) was found to be 10 days late when compared with the position of the sun. That is, the vernal equinox was not occurring on or about March 20/21, as it should do in a correct solar calendar, but was gradually receding towards the beginning of March. The reason for this error was that the Julian calendar worked on the basis that the year was 365 days, 6 hours in length, whereas in truth it is about 11 minutes more than that. Over the centuries this 11 minute discrepancy accumulated causing the Julian calendar to steadily recede, till by the sixteenth century it had lost 10 days and the equinox was occurring on March 11th in that calendar. To correct this discrepancy Pope Gregory X111 ordered that 10 days be added to the Julian calendar dates to bring them into line with the sun. The month of October was chosen for the amendment and in the calendar of 1582 that month appeared as follows: OCTOBER 1582 SunMonTueWedThuFriSat
1 2 3 415 16 171819202122 23 242526272829 30 31

You will notice from the above that the weekly cycle, the order of the days of the week, remained unchanged even though the Gregorian calendar dates had increased by ten between the Thursday 4th and the following day - Friday 15th. In other words in both calendars the day after Thursday remained a Friday. This amendment, understandably, was not very popular in some countries, mainly because it had been authorized by a Roman Catholic Pope. Several Protestant countries refused to acknowledge it and continued to use the Julian calendar; but one by one they came into line. Here is a short list of when they did: Germany (Catholic States)1583 Germany (Protestant States)1700 Netherlands1700 England1752 Rumania, Turkey and Russia1919

All those years between 1582 and 1919 while both calendars were in use, the sequence of the days in the weekly cycle was the same in every country. In other words Sunday in Rome in 1900 was also Sunday in Russia in that year even though both countries were using a different calendar. And as each nation adopted the Gregorian calendar it simply added 10 days to its Julian calendar date. There was no need to change the order of the days of the week, because they already agreed.
Saturday ... Is it the 7th Day of the Week? ... A Voice In The Wilderness - Canada
http://avoiceinthewilderness.org/vital/sermon61.html

[Python]

Abraham "BELIEVED" God, and it (Faith) was reckoned to him as righteousness. Abraham's faith manifested itself in his willingness to "OBEY" God when all reason would repudiate his actions.

[bassrocker4God04]

In answer I would direct you to go look at Luke 6 to see what Jesus' reaction to what is and is not lawful on the Sabbath. His disciples picked and ate grain and Jesus healed on the Sabbath. He was more concerned with the people and following the Spirit of the law not necessarily the letter of the law. The commandment is worded "Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy" which seems more to stress taking time to spiritually rest in God instead of an actual physical rest. While that physical rest is important, The Bible also cautions against being lazy and slothful. Many times, we are told to find our rest in God and to be restored by fellowship with Him and other believers. So many times we get caught up in the letter of the law and forget that the law was put in place to show our sin and than nothing we could do was good enough for God. Jesus explained that the Spirit of the law even condemns those who seem to be perfect. I may never have murdered anyone, but I have hated my brother which condemns me. I may not have committed adultery, but I have lusted. I may physically rest and stay in my house at least one day a week, but is that time spent in reflection, communication and worship of God? If it is not then I am not keeping the Sabbath Holy before God.

[Python]

Originally Posted by bassrocker4God04

The commandment is worded "Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy" which seems more to stress taking time to spiritually rest in God instead of an actual physical rest. I may physically rest and stay in my house at least one day a week, but is that time spent in reflection, communication and worship of God? If it is not then I am not keeping the Sabbath Holy before God.

The commandment, the instructions and all restrictions (Mosaic Law/old covenant), were applicable only to the Jews. The "same" is not applicable to the (new covenant) Church. As Christians we are not bound by Mosaic laws or tradition. As a Christian I reflect, communicate, and worship God everyday, therefore my everyday is a Sabbath.

[jack404]

see thats what i've always beleived , I bring you a new covenant , its written on the tablets of your heart ,

to me thats not set rules but a obligation on us as individuals to act in a manner that on the whole is considered "Christian" maybe moral would be more acceptable to the non believers

we know early on how things work and what is wrong

a kid who has his pencil case stolen by a bully knows stealing is wrong

if we dont like it happening to us, dont do it to others .. simple

Today was Sunday here , today i did my normal routine , up early , stir the vats ( they have to be stirred 3-4 times a day or the hides mark ) cook breakfast , go pick up the grand kids , feed them , off to Church and home with a day with the grand kids until 4:30 pm when i take the kids to their sunday school and kids club , then we visit hungry jacks ( burger king in the US ) because they like the soft serve sundae's ( i wont by them the burgers and such and then i drop them home again and back here to stir the vat's and catch up on my studies , some is faith study some general some political , but all of it is focused on how to improve my nation and its morals and therefore survivability in the face of this godless onslaught we currently have

is this work ?

i dunno , to me its part of my work to help others , but i dont see it as work

more of a obligation i have accepted ,

is hunting a few bunnies work ? i take great pleasure in it actually

but when i work the big culls here ( feral animals like donkeys camels etc) that is work and that we do 5 days a week and the last two we do rest , saterday is a maintinance day for the mechanics and chopper crews ,but sunday , its eating relaxing BBQ and Bible studies if we are too far from a church for all ( bible studies and reading voluntary) and generally a game of football or cricket is started as well

to me that is work and because then i employ others i will not force anyone to work Sunday , its the Lords day to me , but he let's me have freedom to choose how i spend it , i know when i do wrong , but think ( and hope ) i'm right on this ,

its how i am , i think its how He has made me .. mostly , cause i'm still a knuckle head and not perfect .. but non of us are perfect , only He is , of that i am sure ..

As a Christian I reflect, communicate, and worship God everyday, therefore my everyday is a Sabbath.

i like this a lot but the sabbath to me is one day that i set aside most of the things of the world for Him , study of His teachings , or doing His work

funny thing is the gent who delivers my salt is Jewish and he delivers to me on sunday when he delivers ( every 2 months or so ) and i dont mind , being considerate of others and knowing the freedom Christ gave me , so yea i lug my salt inside , and maybe thats work but if i dont and it rains? i'm out a few hundred bucks and will have to work harder to replace it , and going harder , is getting tougher as i'm aging

to me my thoughts are , God understands what i must do and what i really dont have to do and if i try to honour him as best i am able , all the time , he'll understand the few times i cant ( if its legit )

never try to scam God , cause He KNOWS ..

and .. hey thanks to everyone who's chipped in on this , i'm learning much , seeing new ways to see things , i'm still not decided on the answer but think i'm not too far wrong if i am , but i do intend to study whats here and been said by all

it'll take time and prayer and maybe more time but io do hope to define it better from whats been put on here by you folks

Thank you all

[ampaterry]

Oh, I have no doubt the days of the week have been unchanged since "long before the Christian era". My doubts stem from the very beginning, when there is no indication that Adam and Eve had any reason to follow the seven-day-week cycle.

For instance, on what day of the week did Eve eat the forbidden fruit?
Did Adam eat of it that same day?
On what day did God expell them from the Garden?
On what day was each of their children born?

These earliest events simply did not have any such accounting recorded for them, and since they were all LONG before the codification of the law at Sinai, we have no way of knowing which of our present weekly days God rested on originally.

It is straining at a gnat.
Set aside ONE special day every seven days, as God directed.

[Skyking]

the one nagging question I keep having and this is a question for all of us "what is the Messiah/Yahushua/jesus going to do upon his return"? How did he worship while here on earth ?seems to me whatever he did then is what he'll do in the future.
I'm pretty sure all of us are reading from the same scriptures.,so why so much division on a day ?If our creator is not the author of confusion ,then who is ?

Would your bible read different if it had no page between {Malachi} and Matthew?The schrolls contained no chapters or verses or punctuation.

Jack mentioned a New Testament and perhaps a re-newed would be better choice of words, as he came to do away with the curse of the law and not the spirit of the law..
Look at what jesus and all the prophets were doing ,they were pointing people back to the father, the torah,the teachings and instructions of the father
Matthew 5:17
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
do a word search in esword about "it is written"
look at how many times the prophets are quoted or spoken of in just the "gospels"
look back into deuteronomy about all the instructions for setting up your camp in the troubled days ahead.even down to how to keep it clean.

I asked the question the other day about who changed this day and why
Time is the Ally of Deceit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpfIm...layer_embedded short 3 min video
http://www.remnantofgod.org/romeadmits.htm
http://www.blowthetrumpet.org/AnExtr...yAdmission.htm

I'm not sure if you guys know of to many sons that would try to change the rules in their fathers home or kingdom.just pointing out if we were brought up in that culture and times some of these items would never be mentioned,it was understood.

[ampaterry]

No confusion at all here; sabath means seventh.
Sabath day means seventh day, just as sabath year means seventh year.
Neither addresses a SPECIFIC day or year, just 'seventh'.

Who changed it?
Those that try to control others by telling them which day they should celebrate it.

Have a special day of rest which you keep holy every seventh day.
Folks want to make that Saturday, that is fine.
So is Sunday, or any other day of the week.

[Skyking]

Sabbath Truth Introduction.

Many are surprised to know that over five hundred different denominations of Sabbath keeping Churches that keep the true Sabbath today and the number is growing. Why are whole chains of Churches switching back to the true Sabbath according to the fourth Commandment? The Bible tells us in Daniel that a persecuting power would change God's laws and this fact has gone unnoticed by the majority. Could the majority have it wrong as they did in the days of Noah? Why did so many people die for keeping the Seventh day Sabbath? Many say the Sabbath to Sunday change was in honour of the resurrection and others say it was nailed to the cross. Others will tell you any day can be kept as the Sabbath as long as you keep one. And still others say as long as you do everything to the glory of God the Sabbath commandment can be ignored. And yet still others call keeping this day of blessings legalism. Please read on if you would like to know the real Sabbath truth according to the one source we can always trust – the Holy Word of God.

http://www.sabbath-truth.org/

The Disciples Kept the Sabbath
85 Times in the book of Acts
85 might be a stretch ,I'm still counting, the scripture is good that is listed
http://www.eliyah.com/85times.html

[Skyking]

Originally Posted by ampaterry

No confusion at all here; sabath means seventh.
Sabath day means seventh day, just as sabath year means seventh year.
Neither addresses a SPECIFIC day or year, just 'seventh'.

Sab·bath
   /ˈsæbəθ/ Show Spelled[sab-uhth] Show IPA
noun
1.
the seventh day of the week, Saturday, as the day of rest and religious observance among Jews and some Christians. Ex. 20:8–11.
2.
the first day of the week, Sunday, similarly observed by most Christians in commemoration of the Resurrection of Christ.
3.
any special day of prayer or rest resembling the Sabbath: Friday is the Muslim Sabbath.
4.
( sometimes lowercase ) a period of rest.
5.
( sometimes lowercase ) Demonology . Sabbat.


Shabbat (Shabbos in Ashkenazic pronunciation), is the weekly day of rest . It is observed, from before sundown on Friday until after nightfall on Saturday. It is the source for the English term Sabbath. The Hebrew word shabbat comes from the Hebrew verb shavat, which literally means "to cease," or shev which means "sit." Although shabbat (or its anglicized version, "Sabbath") is almost universally translated as "rest" or a "period of rest," a more literal translation would be "ceasing", with the implication of "ceasing from work." Thus, shabbat is the day of ceasing from work; while resting is implied, it is not a necessary denotation of the word itself. For example, the Hebrew word for "strike" (as in work stoppage) is shevita, which comes from the same Hebrew root as shabbat, and has the same implication, namely that the striking workers actively abstain from work, rather than passively "resting."

[Python]

The problem with being retired is that I never get a day off. The point is that we are not bound by law, tradition, or ceremony. Sabbath has nothing to do with salvation, the sabbath was made for man, pick any day you want or none at all, we are "free" in Christ. Are we saved because we keep the Sabbath, because we are baptized, eat fish on Friday, etc., etc., or because Christ died on the cross? Today is Sunday, I'm going to take a ride on my Harley, forget about the cares of the world and thank the Lord for the wind in my face and the pleasure of my ride. Whatever your choices are, have a nice day.

[Bobitis]

The most thankul thing in my life is my humility. Without that, I'd be ignorant.

[ampaterry]

Anyone that thinks they can identify THE Sabath day needs only identify THE sabath year, with authoritative reference (Scripture).

All Sabath observations are correct if they pick ONE day per week, and observe that day as God directed.

Python, keep the breeze between the knees, and stay on top of the hog.

[ampaterry]

If someone wants a Calendar showing Sunday as the last day of the week, here it is.

calendar.txt

In reality, of course, how we chose to print the calendar has nothing to do with Sabath day any more than selecting the year to start printing a calendar has to do with the identity of a Sabath year.

[jack404]

now i watched 1million BC with ringo star

it was a teusday

[Popgunner]

One small correction Diamondback, we Mormons (LDS) hold that Sunday is now the Sabbath day. Saturday for the Jews with the Law of Moses & then changed by Jesus to be Sunday. I believe that along with Jews the Seventh Day Adventists & Jehova's Whitnesses still hold that Saturday is the Sabbath.

[whymememe]

I,m takin off Sunday.

[ampaterry]

I removed a duplicate post of yours, Jack, about 1,000,000 years BC movie.
That was so bad, two mentions of it were more than I could handle
LOL!!

Traditions of men, claims of this group or that group, English dictionary definitions, none mean a single thing when dealing with the things of God.
Go to scripture.
Read it.
Obey it.
When confused, find the ORIGINAL meanings of the words through a Greek or Hebrew dictionary.
When you do that, you find this:

Exodus 20:8-11 (KJV)
8 Remember the sabbath

Hebrew Word: ‏שַׁבָּת‎
Transliteration: shabbāt
Phonetic Pronunciation:shab-bawth'
Root: intensive from <H7673>, Greek <G4521>
Cross Reference: TWOT - 2323b
Part of Speech: n f/m
Vine's Words: Cease (To)


Usage Notes:

English Words used in KJV:
sabbath 107
another 1
[Total Count: 108]

intensive from <H7673> (shabath); intermission, i.e. (specific) the Sabbath :- (+ every) sabbath.

And for 7673:

Hebrew Word: ‏שָׁבַת‎
Transliteration: shābat
Phonetic Pronunciation:shaw-bath'
Root: a primitive root
Cross Reference: TWOT - 2323, 2323c
Part of Speech: v
Vine's Words: Cease (To)


Usage Notes:

English Words used in KJV:
cease 47
rest 11
away 3
fail 2
celebrate 1
miscellaneous translations 7
[Total Count: 71]

a primitive root; to repose, i.e. desist from exertion; used in many implication relations (causative, figurative or specific) :- (cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, keep (sabbath), suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away.

day, to keep it holy.
9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
10 But the seventh

Hebrew Word: ‏שְׁבִיעִי‎
Transliteration: shebîʿâ
Phonetic Pronunciation:sheb-ee-ee'

Hebrew Word: ‏שְׁבִעִי‎
Transliteration: shebîʿîy
Phonetic Pronunciation: sheb-ee-ee'

Root: ordinal from <H7657>
Cross Reference: TWOT - 2318b
Part of Speech: adj m]
Vine's Words: None


Usage Notes:

English Words used in KJV:
seventh 96
seven 1
seventh time 1
[Total Count: 98]

or shebi`iy, sheb-ee-ee'; ordinal from <H7657> (shib`iym); seventh :- seventh (time).

day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

From this, we can see that God placed great importance upon taking time to rest after working for six days. He even made that day of rest a HOLY day, and as such it is a special time of reflection upon him.
Does he expect us, after multiple thousands of years, to determine which specific day of our current week He rested on during the week of creation? From the extant records, this is absolutely impossible. And God never makes impossible demands of us.
So some of us have Saturday as our Sabbath.
Some of us have Sunday as our Sabbath.
And policemen, firemen, utility workers, medical workers, and thousands of other occupations that REQUIRE work on Saturday and Sunday are therefore to pick another day after six days of work and devote that day to rest and reflection without fear that they breaking one of the ten commandments, for THAT day is their Sabbath.

[jack404]

No worries Terry , it was all tongue in cheek i just like the intro

1,000,000 years BC

teusday 7:25 am ( or something like that )

[ampaterry]

Jack, you double posted again -
BOTH show the exact same time, too -

You MIGHT have some kind of computer glitch going on there -

[jack404]

mouse ( touch pad ) glitch i think let's see if this fixes it

[jack404]

cheers !

[.45 acp nut]

Originally Posted by Diamondback

Terry, what day is the Sabbath? Man, somewhere in the past stated that Sunday is the Sabbath. The Jewish, the LDS, and others say that Saturday is the Sabbath. In all of my readings of the Bible I have never been able to pin down exactly what day God said was the Sabbath. I believe he said "Six days shall thou work and on the seventh shalt thou rest." Who decided that Sunday was the Sabbath? Why not Tuesday or Thursday? When I look at the current form of the calendar, Sunday is the first day of the week not the seventh. I firmly believe like you and Jack that no matter the day when you are assissting others , no one has the right to upbraid or condemn you for your actions.

I have been LDS all my life. I have always attended worship services on Sunday. Just thought you might like to know.