Working on the Sabbath for Christians , yeah or neigh ?

[jack404]

Originally Posted by .45 acp nut

I have been LDS all my life. I have always attended worship services on Sunday. Just thought you might like to know.

Cheers eh! the folks i know here attend Sunday too ( we often share the chapel out bush )

[ampaterry]

I believe he may have meant the SDA instead of LDS -

[user]

The Sabbath is sundown, Friday, to sundown, Saturday.

Celebration on "the Lord's Day" started when Christianity became enmeshed with the official pagan cults of the Roman Empire. It had already been traditional to worship the Sun God and Mithras (whom saw as different manifestations of the same deity) on Sunday. So it was already "the Lord's Day" for lots of people who, under the reigns of Constantine and Theodosius, were compelled to become "Christians" overnight. The "orthodox" sects converted Christianity to match the religious observances they'd already been doing and just changed the language to suit. Hence "Christmas" being celebrated on Mithras' birthday in exactly the same setup.

As to observation of the Hebrew law in Leviticus and Deuteronomy, my view is that it's a lot like a dispenser for toilet-seat covers I saw in a commercial office building bathroom one day, which said, "Placed by The Management for Your Convenience and Protection". It's optional, but you'll be happier and healthier as a society if people go by the rules (which were written for a small, seminomadic people who were just discovering settled agriculture). It's also like what I told my kids about using the handrail on the stairs - if you do what I tell you and hold the handrail, then when you fall (notice I didn't say, "if"?) you won't be hurt as badly. The kid who forgot to do what I told him still has a scar on his forehead from having fallen off the basement stairs onto a jackstand. The law was made for man, not man for the law: the rules are placed by The Management for your convenience and protection.

[ampaterry]

If you research this a bit, you will find that many Christians met and worshipped on Sunday long before Constantine -

The name SUNday has little bearing on it, considering that every day of the week is named after some pagan God - Saturday was named after Saturn - -

[jack404]

OI! let's back up , the best day of the week is Friday ,

named after Fraya who with her band of warriors rode outta the hills around londinium and taxed the romans ..

she and her folks would come the same day every week for so long and in such a manner that is soon became fraya's day now Friday

see what a celt can do

oh thor was not a god that was a rewrite too Thor was a war chief who fought the romans , but dissappeared one day and became legend ( its thought he was poisoned as the romans tainted a few loads of goods and let em get captured. something the hunic tribes learned so they burned everything ..)

[dad2thebone]

I believe what you do is important to the folks that get a hand from you and those who do what you do also. The day is for relaxation as well as worship. untill i was injured i worked on my hobbies and helped others on projects that came along. All the while relaxing and enjoying myself while i thanked the lord i had such a day.I still am thankful for all the days and things i can enjoy.So if you enjoy it's not really work. Just my opinion.WELCOME TO TFF SKY,this forum is outstanding and a whole bunch of good people so have fun here.

[don prairie]

168 hours in a week.Normally 1 hour Sunday service.What is important is what are we doing with the other 167 hours during the course of one week..

[jack404]

Sunday 1 hour ? hmmm ok not counting the breakfast and service for homeless and other folks ( 2 1/2 hours avg ) as we take turns so its only one sunday a month ...


maybe 45 mins running round getting folks who dont have transport ( older folks mostly)

another 45 mins running them home ( most less as they are often taken to other parishioners for lunch )

running the grandies up to the kids service and then getting them home via where we by a Sundae , its a pretty full day and if i'm bagging some bunnies for the parishioners add a couple more hours before services and such

[CampingJosh]

Originally Posted by jack404

Sunday 1 hour ? hmmm ok not counting the breakfast and service for homeless and other folks ( 2 1/2 hours avg ) as we take turns so its only one sunday a month ...


maybe 45 mins running round getting folks who dont have transport ( older folks mostly)

another 45 mins running them home ( most less as they are often taken to other parishioners for lunch )

running the grandies up to the kids service and then getting them home via where we by a Sundae , its a pretty full day and if i'm bagging some bunnies for the parishioners add a couple more hours before services and such

American church is, frequently, about the shortest event of the week. Can't start too early, otherwise people won't get up. Can't start too late, otherwise people will skip. You have to let out in time for everyone to get to lunch, hopefully still with enough time to make it home for kickoff at 1:00. So that means that many, many churches here start service at 10:30 and must be done by 11:45. Times are even tighter outside the Eastern time zone.

I wish I could say the above was sarcastic, but unfortunately it is reality for the majority of American churches.

[jack404]

city churches here are like that , to me its more about entertainment , preaching prosperity , love all men , we must be the leading light and create understanding between all man , ( a spin off one of Trotsky's speeches funnily enough but a common them i see in the big city churches) and all big dollar business's

heck they even talk about how blessed that they've had 4 new mercedes cars in as many years .. this is the boss minister types ..

and the folks who go .. rock up, polite on the way in , as rude as any motorway anywhere when it aint moved for a hour .. but in the carpark ?? sheeesh

i like my country churches , they may not be big and profitable but its most defiantly Community.. and i think Blessed

and as i travel a lot at times i get to visit a few as well

i'm a firm believer the closer to the big city the worse the churches , but glad to see theres always exceptions still .. holdouts ..


Dawn of a day is my normal prayer time , the greyness ebb's away and the colours coming back .. Good time .. God time for me

but 7:30am at the church on a sunday here and theres a later one and a kids one at 3 pm and a 7:30pm one , the Rev's a busy bloke on Sundays and no service is the same , ( teaching may be though )

[Grizz]

No workey on the Sabbath!!! Unless of coarse your scheduled to go in.

[ampaterry]

Your right, Grizz -
MANY of us have been in jobs that, at least at times, scheduled us seven days a week. No matter WHEN you decide to honor the Sabbath, you work on it when you have a seven day schedule, and there is darned little you can do about it if you want to remain employed.

Now the Muslims are a special case, though. Gotta give them time off five times a day to pray, and provide a place to do it in, EVERY day of the week or get hit with a discrimination lawsuit and millions of liberals boycotting your business.

[jack404]

and pay Jizya for the privalidge to let em ..

[Python]

Originally Posted by ampaterry

Your right, Grizz -
MANY of us have been in jobs that, at least at times, scheduled us seven days a week. No matter WHEN you decide to honor the Sabbath, you work on it when you have a seven day schedule, and there is darned little you can do about it if you want to remain employed.

Now the Muslims are a special case, though. Gotta give them time off five times a day to pray, and provide a place to do it in, EVERY day of the week or get hit with a discrimination lawsuit and millions of liberals boycotting your business.

And we still believe that America is a Christian nation.

[ampaterry]

Originally Posted by Python

And we still believe that America is a Christian nation.

Obama said we are not.

And for the first time in his life, he was telling the truth.

[BlackEagle]

One of the more interestering Sabbath services Dad was involved in was in India a number of years ago. Dad arrived in the village Saturday afternoon, and the elders of the church began quizzing him, to be sure he was OK. People started drifting in Saturday evening, having walked miles from the surrounding villages, so they would be there for an early start Sunday. They camped overnight, and had a communal breakfast in the morning. The elders explained the order of service to Dad--some time for prayer (an hour or two), then opening the Word would start around 1100. Dad asked when he should finish: 1200 or 1230? Oh no. These people had come so far, walked so long and they needed spiritual feeding, so the preaching could go on for several hours--3 or 4 at least. Dad thoroughly enjoyed the time there; he preached through the book of John that day.

In my experience, growing up in a pastor's home, having many friends who are pastors, and having been one myself, pastors often have the hardest time of all finding and keeping a Sabbath Day. Ours, as I was growing up, was Monday. After school we would go do something as a family. Or it might be Saturday, when we would go for a picnic in the state park or go shooting along the river somewhere. Not everyone realised pastors need Sabbaths also, so were demanding Dad's attention regardless of the day.

Later, when I was working in a hospital lab, I was on call every third Sunday, so I had a variable Sabbath.

As you pointed out, Terry, the Sabbath was made for man, not man for the Sabbath.

However, one important aspect of the Sabbath is coming together as God's People to worship Him and have fellowship together. It's a time for growing our own relationship with Christ, and helping others to grow their relationship with Christ.

Hebrews 10:24-25 "And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works: Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching."

So Jack, fret not. For what its worth, keep up the good works. You're doing well.

[thomas44]

The Sabbath for the Jews was Saturday. The Sabbath for faithful Christians is rest in Heaven. Christians don't have an earthly sabbath. That's my understanding from reading the O.T. and the N.T.

[Skyking]

I've included a few more sites I had if anyones interested.
I must admit that I'm at a loss at how to change years of tradition that have followed all of us in our family's lineage of learning and keeping our religion alive.The best that I can do is pass along other researchers and their findings for your examination and will let you do your own research.
I looked up how many times the word sabbath was listed in the OT and saw it was listed 55 times and 94 in the New
.The True Sabbath Day
http://therefinersfire.org/true_sabb...htm&nomobile=1
Sabbath vs Sunday ,which should we keep?
http://www.herealittletherealittle.n...e_name=Sabbath


Chart of the Week Dr. William Meade Jones lived over a hundred and fifty years ago, and was a well-known London, England, research expert. He discovered in his studies that the Seventh-day Sabbath was the only weekly Sabbath ever commanded by God in the Bible.

Jones decided that, since Scripture clearly shows that the Bible Sabbath was first given to mankind at the end of the Creation Week, (Genesis 2:1-3) then two important facts would have had to be known throughout the ancient world: First, a fixing of the seven-day weekly cycle on a world-wide basis, and second, an ancient world-wide knowledge of the Seventh-day Sabbath.

Jones decided to research a majority of the languages of the world to see if his reasonings were true. The results of his research was as he suspected and is another powerful proof, not only that the Seventh day is the true Sabbath of God, but also that the creation account in Genesis 1 and 2 is accurate, and that God is our Creator!
Read More ...http://www.sabbathtruth.com/portals/...f-the-week.pdf

http://www.sabbathtruth.com/free-res...t-library.aspx

THE SABBATH IN THE NEW TESTAMENT
ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS
-- http://www.biblicalperspectives.com/...stament/5.html

How are we to keep the Sabbath?
Does God want us to keep the Sabbath?

To figure out if God wants us to keep the Sabbath today, we will answer these five questions:
http://biblelaw101.com/Home/Does%20G...%20Sabbath.htm

1. How long did God say we should observe this commandment?

2. Does the New Testament support us keeping this commandment?

3. Why did God want us to keep them in the past?

4. Does the reason of why God wanted us to keep them in the past still apply?

5. Is there any evidence that we will be keeping the Sabbath when Christ returns?

NEGLECTING TO OBSERVE THE SABBATH DAY (remembering Creation, and stop working on the 7th day).




The adversary changed the Sabbath Day to the Romans’ “Day of the Sun” in 321 CE.

(by the authority of the first "pope" of Catholicism, Constantine I)

[Skyking]

Originally Posted by thomas44

The Sabbath for the Jews was Saturday. The Sabbath for faithful Christians is rest in Heaven. Christians don't have an earthly sabbath. That's my understanding from reading the O.T. and the N.T.

the sabbath was set forth at creation and given to all the nations who came out of Egypt and wandered the desert,wilderness for 40yrs and long before there was a "Jew".Give the tribe of judah a thumbs up for keeping it all these yrs though.Just keep having that ol nagging thought, what will all the believers do when a "jewish" messiah returns to claim his kingdom?Should we conider that there were no sunday schools or none of these thousand plus denominations to clutter the word or will he do it like he did the first time around only it will be "his " way .
Just a suggestion that you rethink the whole sabbath thing and take a second look at the feast and I hate to be the real " killjoy" yep pork .....catfish and Jack the "lil" bunnies and oh those shrimp.ham,bacon oh I can hear it now
Oh no I can fill my popularity rating slipping anudder notch
Why don't people worship on SATURDAY?

The vast majority of people who study the Bible acknowledge that, in the Old Testament, God commanded people to rest and worship Him on the seventh day of the week (Saturday). But why do the overwhelming majority of Christians today NOT keep the fourth commandment?:

"Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the SEVENTH DAY is the SABBATH of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work . . .For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and RESTED THE SEVENTH DAY. Therefore the Lord blessed the SABBATH DAY and hallowed it." (Exodus 20:8-11)

The answer boils down to a belief that the New Testament somehow CHANGED the day of rest God himself initially made (Genesis 2:1-3), Saturday, to Sunday. If this is the case, then we should find amble proof in the New Testament to support worshipping God on Sunday.

Where is SUNDAY mentioned in the New Testament?

Even if we searched day and night we would not find ANYWHERE in the New Testament any statement that clearly teaches God changed His day of rest to Sunday - a different day than what was commanded in the Old Testament. We also wouldn't come across any statements by Jesus that God has and would require a NEW day of rest for those who believe in Him. Our search would also lack ANY teaching of the apostles that specifically names Sunday as the new Bible Sabbath. How, then, is worship on Sunday instead of Saturday Biblically justified?

One of the primary ways used to justify Sunday is to show that what occurred in the New Testament on this day MUST have meant the early church had some sort of worship service on it, thereby confirming the change in Sabbath days.

So, let's take a look at ALL the places Sunday is referred to in the New Testament to see if what did happen on this day supports the belief that God changed the time we are to worship Him.

Unfortunately, according to Strong's Concordance, the word "Sunday" never appears in the New Testament. Those who wrote in the first century A.D. didn't refer to the days of the week like we do (e.g. Monday, Wednesday, etc.). They referred to Sunday (actually, from Saturday sunset to Sunday sunset since Biblical days begin and end at sunset) by the phrase "first day of the week." Our study will be relatively brief since this phrase used for Sunday occurs only EIGHT times in the entire New Testament.
http://www.biblestudy.org/godsrest/w...on-sunday.html

[thomas44]

OK then...I'll stand corrected. The Sabbath for God's people in the Old Testament times was Saturday. The Sabbath for faithful Christians is rest in Heaven. Christians don't have an earthly Sabbath. That's my understanding from reading the O.T. and the N.T. We are not under the 10 Commandments or the Mosaic Law anymore. Christ fulfilled that Law when He died on the cross. Jesus still taught about things like the Sabbath while He was here because He was a Jew and the old Law was still in effect, but He was also trying to bring Jews (and Gentiles) to an understanding that the old Law was about to be fulfilled and replaced. The only Sabbath that I as a faithful Christian have, is Heaven. I would cite Hebrews chapter 4 as a good place to start.

[ampaterry]

Skyking, you are correct in that the Sabbath is NO WHERE in scripture said to be Sunday (the day of the Sun).

But neither is SATURDAY (the day of the god Saturn) mentioned anywhere in scripture as the Sabbath either -

And we have zero records going back to the week of creation to see which day of our present week happens to be the day that God rested on.

The Jewish people, and some others, recognize Saturday.
The majority of Christian faiths recognize Sunday.
Others observe different days.

We are once more debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin; it is much ado about nothing. Rest on the seventh day after you start your work week, and you will have fulfilled the commandment to rest on the seventh day.

[thomas44]

I'd recommend the book of Galatians. It makes a very clear case that we are no longer under OT law. In fact, it states that if someone wants to live under the OT law, they had better live under ALL the OT Law, which is impossible to do today, but if you want to give it a go, good luck ! : ) God Bless....peace, out

[Skyking]

Originally Posted by thomas44

We are not under the 10 Commandments or the Mosaic Law anymore.
I would cite Hebrews chapter 4 as a good place to start.

Really ,then what are we under ?I would respectfully suggest you start back at the beginning ....,might be a reason this worlds in such a mess.

[Skyking]

Originally Posted by ampaterry

Skyking, you are correct in that the Sabbath is NO WHERE in scripture said to be Sunday (the day of the Sun).

But neither is SATURDAY (the day of the god Saturn) mentioned anywhere in scripture as the Sabbath either -

And we have zero records going back to the week of creation to see which day of our present week happens to be the day that God rested on.

The Jewish people, and some others, recognize Saturday.
The majority of Christian faiths recognize Sunday.
Others observe different days.

We are once more debating how many angels can dance on the head of a pin; it is much ado about nothing. Rest on the seventh day after you start your work week, and you will have fulfilled the commandment to rest on the seventh day.

true the greeks got the whole saturn day to their liking as it should be Shabat,sabbath,7th day.
It just stands to reason that the creator of the universe in all his wisdom and reasoning that created and gave such detailed instructions, would leave something this important to our interpretation as you suggest.

anyway ,have a great day

[ampaterry]

Skyking, I am completely open to any evidence that God gave us a record showing what day of our PRESENT week we should set aside as the seventh day.
In all my reading and study, I have never found any such continuous records going back to the original creation week.

Did God leave it to our own interpretation?
Not at all.
He was VERY clear.
It is the seventh day after we start work.

Any day we can civilly discuss the things of God is an EXCELLENT day -
I hope the USA continues to be a place where this is possible.

So far it is, provided you don't speak out TOO openly against the act of homosexuality; it could be interpreted as hate speech!!

As for the OT law, it is my understanding that Jesus came to FULFILL it, not do away with it. To me, that indicates the laws involving sacrifice are fulfilled, but the others are in effect (no murder, coveting, adultry, theft, etc) and the dietary laws were done away with in a NT vision.

But hey, we all should do the best we can, and honestly try with all our might to do what God would have us to do. Thus, a SINCERE snake-handler is nearer to following God than a hypocritical Christian of ANY denomination.
Just MHO, though -