Working on the Sabbath for Christians , yeah or neigh ?

[thomas44]

Originally Posted by Skyking

Really ,then what are we under ?I would respectfully suggest you start back at the beginning ....,might be a reason this worlds in such a mess.

Easy question to answer.....The New Testament.

[Juker]

There are plenty of Christians who observe one Sabbath or another, and their spiritual life isn't worth a thimble of warm spit. They're the "nod-to-God" crowd who'll flip somebody off as soon as their tires leave the church parking lot, the people who think they've done their part by showing up on Sunday morning. They don't understand that our service to the Lord is performed beyond the walls of the church. "Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in your garage makes you a car." Most of the truest servants I know are out there among the unwashed masses, doing the Lord's work.

Terry, I think you nailed it - Christians not working on Sunday, expecting others to serve them food and be open so they can purchase gas. Perfect!

A lot of holier-than-thou B.S. drives people away from wanting to be part of a local church. It's legalism, plain and simple - following the letter but not the spirit of the Law.

[Bobitis]

I'll serve the Lord in my time and in my way. I'll take time out when I can.

Then again, I'm different.

[user]

Originally Posted by Juker

There are plenty of Christians who observe one Sabbath or another, and their spiritual life isn't worth a thimble of warm spit. They're the "nod-to-God" crowd who'll flip somebody off as soon as their tires leave the church parking lot, the people who think they've done their part by showing up on Sunday morning. They don't understand that our service to the Lord is performed beyond the walls of the church. "Going to church doesn't make you a Christian any more than standing in your garage makes you a car." Most of the truest servants I know are out there among the unwashed masses, doing the Lord's work.

Terry, I think you nailed it - Christians not working on Sunday, expecting others to serve them food and be open so they can purchase gas. Perfect!

A lot of holier-than-thou B.S. drives people away from wanting to be part of a local church. It's legalism, plain and simple - following the letter but not the spirit of the Law.

Another Joyce Meyer fan! That's gratifying.

And, speaking of hitting the nail squarely, I liked what Paul said about how the law served as a tutor when we were unable, as the realization of Christ, to think for ourselves. But now that we have had what I call, "the big Aha!", we have no further need of a tutor. That doesn't mean that the principles taught are out the window. Only that the tutor is no longer required. As Jesus pointed out and has been quoted above, the law (qua Sabbath) is made for man - if only he'll use it appropriately. It takes a grownup to do that, though, and most of the religious people are babies.

"Woe unto you, clergy and religious people, hypocrites, for you..."

[Juker]

Originally Posted by user

Another Joyce Meyer fan! That's gratifying.

...um, er... sorry - who's Joyce Meyer?

Never mind, looked 'er up. I know who she is. Suffice it to say I am definitely NOT a fan.

[Grizz]

Joyce Meyer huh

[Skyking]

for the most part all who lead or taught or cast out demons or healed the sick or prophesied or walked from Matthew on were all pointing back to Torah or the teachings of of the Father.Paul who was a "jews" jew and knew the Torah like no one else would never contradict or teach contrary to Torah or the OT.To think that the NT would make the OT obsolete is only playing into the hands of the enemy.You could say we have a re-newed covenant in the fact that the curse of the law was done away with and not the spirit of the law, and law means teaching or instruction.

Think about it, your creator, your heavenly Father ,your Elohim set forth a DAY from the beginning of time ,the 7th day,a Shabat, a day of rest and a day he told us to "REMEMBER" it and he did one other thing that is quite signifigent ,he"blessed" it. What is the opposite of a blessing ,let's see oh I know a "curse", that sounds like enough reason right there to set the 7th day apart and remember it .

There is one other question that came to mind as I was writing this.
Let's say that you've made the cut and lived to see the millinial reign and your on your way to hear "The Lion of Judah,the Messiah , Yahshua Ha Mashiach teach and present one of his teachings when and what do you think he might teach on considering he never knew what the NT was and his normal ,formal day of teaching in the synagogue was on SHABAT or sabbath or the seventh day or our Fri nite to Sat nite,you think he gives a flip about what you think you know about sunday being the day to remember that some one who doesn't know any more than you do told you to do..... I think not and it won't fly .Give me evidence from scripture that tells me sun day is the day and like I said sabbath is mentioned 55 times in the NT,10 times in Acts alone, so don't tell me it wasn't being observed and done away with I know better and so do you.


If anyone cares to listen or watch one of the best presentations on how we got to be so messed up this is a place to start .I wish I'd of known about it early on ,how much time and strain I could have done away with ..

Jim Staley
The Great Church Audit.

What if the citizens of the United States were somehow deceived to believe that the Constitution is no longer relevant in today's society and needed to be abolished? That somehow the tried and true principles, laws and ordinances once put in place for life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness now had no place in our high paced, secular- progressive society. The answer is simple. Every man would begin to determine what was right in their own eyes and the people in the highest places would create new laws that would ultimately bring death, bondage and injustice for all.

In the same way, the enemy knows that in order to destroy God's people, all that he needs to do is to destroy the founding “Constitution” of God…His Law. If he could convince the people that His Law, ordinances and commandments that He intended for Life, Liberty and the pursuit of happiness were no longer relevant for today, that the people would fall into bondage by creating their own laws. The enemy has crafted and executed his plan perfectly as he has convinced mankind that the Law of God is no longer relevant for today. He has even convinced us that it was God's idea to get rid of it!

Has the Law of God really been abolished? Has it really been nailed to the cross as we have been told? Have the instructions for life and the definition of sin been truly done away with? Or, was the power of sin and the curse that was placed on us because we broke it what was nailed to the cross so that we could be free from the condemnation?

This very in-depth DVD series goes from cover to cover in a very step-by-step approach to finally answer this question once and for all. We will first dive into a comprehensive study on what the definition of sin is. Then we will journey through all the major covenants of the scriptures finally answering what the New Covenant actually is. Lastly, a considerable amount of time is spent going through virtually every single verse in the NT that has been misunderstood concerning this very topic. By the end of this series, the veil will be lifted, the enemy's plan foiled, and we will finally see clearly “Grounds for High Treason.”
The Great Church Audit 1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn5EcCyh-2M

http://www.waytozion.org/video.htm{perhaps this is part of the confusion as I was unable to just list the links and provided the whole page ,these links are part way down the page }
The Great Church Audit 2
Audio Version
The Great Church Audit 3
Audio Version
The Great Church Audit 4
Audio Version
The Great Church Audit 5
Audio Version
The Great Church Audit 6
Audio Version


Jim Staley - Law Vs Love - Is it really Law OR Grace? (Audio)
Is the Law really against Grace? For the past 1800 years most of us have been taught that the Old Testament was all about Law and the New Testament is all about Love. We might have even been led to believe that those of the OT were saved by works and today we are saved by grace...That it is either Law or Love. This teaching dispels the idea that Jesus or the bible pits one against the other, but rather that the two are actually one. You will see that the God of yesterday still defines love the same way that He does today...through obedience to His Word.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_TkUL...layer_embedded

[jack404]

so when Jesus stated he brought us a new covenant , he was kidding ?

and we are still under the old one ?? see that is opposite everything i have been taught or read

[ampaterry]

Me too, Jack.

The Jews who have NOT accepted Christ are under the old covenant.

The rest of us are under the new covenant.

The fact that BOTH are saved is evident from Romans chapter 11.

And I am shocked to hear someone say that Jesus observed the Sabbath day!
Man, he was constantly accused of IGNORING the sabbath day, and taught that the ritualistic observance of it was WRONG.

And there is still zero evidence to show that God rested on our present Saturday.

[ampaterry]

It is sort of like Christmas.
We don't have a CLUE what day of the year Christ was born on -
We are reasonably sure it was not in late December, though, because it is the wrong time of year for Shepherds to be out in the hills with their flocks -

BUT that is the day we have chosen to recognize His birth, and the important thing is that we DO remember it, not that we have the date correct.

[Double D]

Deleted, disregard. I do not care to debate the issue and should not have responded in such mannor.

[Skyking]

Originally Posted by Double D

That teaching is enough to confuse anyone. Wow. I almost labeled it as spam.

Double D tell me which one your referring to as I'll try to either delete it or

if it's a link remove ,not my intent to add any sort of confusion or spam type material to the discussion .I do use lot's of links or other studies only because I'm not gifted in that area of teaching .

[ampaterry]

Well, shoot, Double D, if anything I have said reads that way, let me know and I will gladly purge it too!!

We get anough SPAM sneaks in here without me CONTRIBUTING to it!!!


Hey - me gottee unlicked I-phone plenty cheep - 25 Yanquee dollar!!

[Double D]

I updated my last post.

[Python]

Originally Posted by ampaterry

The Jews who have NOT accepted Christ are under the old covenant.

The rest of us are under the new covenant.

The fact that BOTH are saved is evident from Romans chapter 11.

Before Christ, the Jews were saved under the old covenant. Those who died in faith went to Abraham's Bosom (paradise). When Christ rose from death, He descended to Abraham's Bosom taking those captive, captive. Since the crucifixion of Christ, Jews are not saved under the old covenant, for Jesus said to Nicodemus, "Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God". In Romans 9-11 Paul is answering the question, "has the word of God failed" since the majority of Jews did not respond to the message of the Messiah. He is explaining through these chapters that it was part of the plan of God that the majority of Jewish people reject the gospel. However, when Jesus returns (ending the battle of Armageddon) those Jewish people still alive will turn to Him and receive Him as the Lord and Savior-thus all Israel will be saved.

[jack404]

Python thats how i read it too ...

as i am not jewish i'n not under the OT but the new covenant

that is not written in stone but on the tablets of my heart

i am not sure what day was meant for rest but Sunday here is my Churchifying day and the rest of the day i leave for family and friends

so i believe my promise to God is kept , His request to me is fulfilled and all is good

to be told i've got to go back to the Old Testament makes me ask why and on who's say so ?

and yeah i can get goats for the sacrifice no worries ( camels too if needed ) but where the heck am i gonna find a urn big enough today to burn one ?? and if i do i'll be locked up for sure .. so how do i get round that ?

or does it mean i have to convert to Judaism??

My own Prayers leave me feeling i am doing ok ,

beyond that i cant do much else

if folks ask i'll supply a couple bunnies for em any day , as i've been condemned for so many things now i'm probably past anyones redemption , anyone besides Christ that is , His word is what i am going by , i may not be perfect at it , but i know i do try and that he'll honour that .. whether thats enough ? i guess we'll see ...

[ampaterry]

No Holy War interest here on my part, guys -
And I know that a LOT of folks agree with you.

The effect of our differences of opinion on this is that you feel that a Jew HAS to convert to Christianity to make it into heaven, while I do not.

For my part, I wish I were Jewish, because as a Christian I would then be covered under BOTH covenants!!

[Skyking]

you guy's on this forum really are a great bunch to share with.I hope it doesn't come across that I'm condemming because you do or don't do something ,never my intent. I get passionate about things at times and want to share so many things at once.
If it's ok I'll share articles or videos and whatever I have that reflects what I've learned and you can read watch ,debate or ponder as you see fit to do.
Jack and Terry have also brought up some good points about the covenants and who we are in the grand plan.I'd like to start a new thread as I think it's a real stumbling block to the kingdom and see how it goes

[BlackEagle]

Wow!! What a great conversation that simple question started. A lot of things have come up that have had theologians talking for years, and they still have thier disagreements, and still haven't come to a universally acceptable conclusion--to them, at least.

Jack, I suppose if some bad cook got hold of some of your bunnies they could be considered a burnt offering!!

I like the way David said it in Psalm 51:14-17--
"Deliver me from bloodguiltiness, O God,
O God of my salvation,
and my tongue will sing aloud of your righteousness.
O Lord, open my lips,
and my mouth will declare your praise.
For you will not delight in sacrifice, or I would give it;
you will not be pleased with a burnt offering.
The sacrifices of God are a broken spirit;
a broken and contrite heart, O God, you will not despise."

That same thought is expressed in various places in the New Testament as well as in other places in the Old Testament.

I'll save further comments for the covenant discussion.

[Python]

Originally Posted by jack404

Python thats how i read it too ...
so i believe my promise to God is kept , His request to me is fulfilled and all is good

to be told i've got to go back to the Old Testament makes me ask why and on who's say so ?

and yeah i can get goats for the sacrifice no worries ( camels too if needed ) but where the heck am i gonna find a urn big enough today to burn one ?? and if i do i'll be locked up for sure .. so how do i get round that ?

Jack
The sacrifice of bulls and goats were only to cover sins. Jesus was the sacrificial Lamb of God (the ultimate sacrifice) who's shed blood on the cross "washed away" all of our sins. The last words Jesus spoke before He died were.."It is finished" (paid in full). Remember that Jesus said to Nicodemus.."Unless a man be "born again" he cannot see the Kingdom of Heaven". Nothing but the blood of Jesus, period.

[jack404]

yeah i screw up so often i'd be forever herding goaties into get charred

and why i am soooo Greatfull theres a simpler way ,

actually it was me making a maybe not so funny .. the irony of it all, i find amusing somewhat

aussies are bad that way ....

[Python]

Originally Posted by Python

Jack
Remember that Jesus said to Nicodemus.."Unless a man be "born again" he cannot see the Kingdom of Heaven". Nothing but the blood of Jesus, period.

Jack, remember "Nicodemus" was a Jew.

[jack404]

true but Nicodemus was saved in the end ,

some jewish scholars say he is the same guy as Nicodemus ben Gurion, but the dates just dont add up for it to be true ...

also his martyrdom sort of stuffs that idea too.. from the gibraltian texts ( this about Nicodemus )

HE was by sect a Pharisee, and passed for a master and doctor in Israel, even when he was ignorant of the truths of eternal life. He seems to have been a senator of Jerusalem; for he is called a Jewish chief. The Pharisees were in general, by their pride, the most opposite of all others to the humility of the gospel. St. Nicodemus was an exception, and believed in Christ. 1 At first, something of a sacred opinion of his own wisdom and learning, which it is so hard and so rare a thing for men to be perfectly divested of, seems to have been an obstacle to his opening his heart perfectly to the grace of his conversion. To humble him, Christ explained to him the mystery of regeneration by baptism, which St. Nicodemus did not understand, though it was expressed in the prophets. Our merciful Redeemer reproached him for his ignorance. St. Nicodemus, far from being offended at the reproof, received it with such humility, and was so confounded within himself, that perfecting these dispositions, Christ conducted him into the paths of true virtue. He returned to Jesus from time to time; defended him openly against the Pharisees, 2 assisted at his burial, and embalmed his sacred body with rich spices. 3 Having been turned out of the synagogue by the Jews for believing in Christ, he retired to St. Gamaliel at his country house, and died there at the hands of those who hated what he had become

[Python]

Originally Posted by jack404

true but Nicodemus was saved in the end

To humble him, Christ explained to him the mystery of regeneration by baptism

I agree that Nicodemus was saved because he was "born again" after hearing Jesus. However you lose me on the "mystery" of regeneration by baptism. There's no mystery that I've read about in the Bible about baptism. Baptism is simply an outward expression of an inward faith/change.

[jack404]

i've cut and pasted a translation of haliphisus a roman historian, from greece i think, who wrote of many folks including Nicodemus (the gibraltian texts) , who later in life became part of the Church in Corinth

his words and his explanation