steel casing ammo, your thoughts.

[cowboy898]

I have been watching the commercials about this new cheap ammo and I have to wonder if this is a bad thing. For years the government has been looking for a way to put a time limit on the age of ammo and I wonder if that is what this is? To the best of my knowledge you can not reload steel casings, so there is one limit. And steel rusts and will make the ammo unusable, limit number two. I know the cheaper ammo is a good thing, but at what expense? Let me know what you think about this.

[obxned]

If you reload, the fact that the once-fired cases are useless to you is a big deal. For those of us who do not, less expensive steel cased ammo is a nice option.

[StoneChimney]

Steel cased ammo does not expand like brass does when firing and can impart more bolt thrust in rifle cartridges and quicker unlock times in pistols. It is also harder on extractors.

[carver]

I don't buy it, and I don't shoot it in any of my guns. I figure that if it's bad news for my carbide dies, it's no good in gun either! I do reload what I shoot.

[Rhuga]

Yep, I don't buy it either

[glens67]

I shoot it and don't currently reload. Mini 14 target and NRA Mini 14, 9mm, .45 1911. If it was bad for the guns, why would Hornady have steel cases?

"Steel cased ammo does not expand like brass does when firing and can impart more bolt thrust in rifle cartridges and quicker unlock times in pistols. It is also harder on extractors."

Steel Does expand when fired. It may not deform like brass.
Impart more bolt thrust on bolt face. I don't think so.
Harder on extractors, Possibly Wolf steel coating can cause extractor problems,

Hornady
Uncompromising accuracy and performance in a new economical alternative from Hornady
Featuring Hornady Match rifle bullets or HAP (Hornady Action Pistol) handgun bullets, Steel Match ammunition is loaded at the Hornady factory with optimized propellant for each load that provides consistency and the highest levels of accuracy. Utilizing coated steel cartridge cases, and non-corrosive berdan primers, Steel Match ammunition delivers Hornady quality and performance, but with an economical price (saves as much as 40% when compared to brass case match ammo).

Glen

[cowboy898]

Glens67,

I did not mean that the ammo was bad for the gun, I was saying that it was bad because the ammo will not last as long as ammo with brass casings. I know it works good in firearms and does not damage them.

I am talking about the amount of time that you will be able to store the ammo in an ammo can with out it going bad because the steel casings will rust through and we will not be able to use it. Thus putting a time limit on ammo.

Did I state that right?

Cowboy

[HunterAlpha1]

for going to the range i would buy the cheaper ammo and use it that day. for stockpiling, stick with brass.

[cowboy898]

But what is going to happen if all ammo makers start making only steel cased ammo? we're screwed.

[American Leader]

I use it and buy bulk when it's real cheap, real cheap! When I don't feel like picking up brass and just want to plink in my 7.62X39 & .223. I haven't noticed a problem yet, but would never consider it for serious shooting.

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by cowboy898

I have been watching the commercials about this new cheap ammo and I have to wonder if this is a bad thing. For years the government has been looking for a way to put a time limit on the age of ammo and I wonder if that is what this is? To the best of my knowledge you can not reload steel casings, so there is one limit. And steel rusts and will make the ammo unusable, limit number two. I know the cheaper ammo is a good thing, but at what expense? Let me know what you think about this.

Steel case in actuality has a longer shelf life than brass.

[cowboy898]

I did not know that. Do you know the shelf life of steel?

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by cowboy898

I did not know that. Do you know the shelf life of steel?

Quality produced steel ammo which will be fully lacquered has an indefinite shelf life. It would only be limited by the decomposition rate of powder in a fully air tight container.

[Nighthawk]

open Russian ammo from WWII, looked brand new, like just manufactured.
Have some 7.65 MN been open several years not showing any rust or
corrosion. So far So good.

[cpttango30]

I don't buy nice guns to use cheap crap ammo in them.

My 3 main rifles are all $1k plus. I shoot reloads ONLY and in my 308 I use only Laupa Brass.

[warriflefan]

I reload, but I like stocking up on ammo cheap too. It's nice to just go to the range and not have to worry about searching for brass, especially with my Makarov.

It's lame when people tell you that you are going to blow up your rifle with steel cases, though. I mean seriously, I've been shooting the stuff since I was a kid and never had any problems except with my mosin before I got all the cosmoline out of the chamber.

The steel doesn't shrink after expanding like brass does, which makes it harder to extract from a ruff chamber.

[warriflefan]

Herters ammo from cabellas always shoots great for me. Just go for the poly coated steel and not the laquered stuff and you should be good to go.

Lots of people buy milsurp to shoot and don't complain about it being non-reloadable.

[Little Rooster]

Originally Posted by reynolds357

Steel case in actuality has a longer shelf life than brass.

where did you get these results

[StoneChimney]

Glens67, steel does not expand or contract to the degree brass does. This results in the case possibly not 'gripping' the chamber walls on firing. You can see this on some rifles where steel cases that are ejected are obviously sooty compared to brass.

When the case is temporarily pressed into the chamber wall, it is absorbing some of what would be transferred rearward onto the bolt face. Lilja Barrels, for example, estimates up to 50% of potential maximum bolt thrust is mitigated in this fashion. Less of that temporary grip on the chamber wall, the more thrust put on the bolt face.

I don't worry too much about anything other than AR-pattern rifles in 7.62x39 - which is our second most popular caliber in that platform. There is only so much exterior diameter possible of the bolt, so to accommodate the larger case head metal has to be removed from the bolt face which makes the lugs more vulnerable in that design for that caliber. Extensive use of steel-cased ammunition in AR-pattern rifles chambered for 7.62x39 can cause premature locking lug failure.

The extractor problem on these rifles is due to the lacquer coating combining with the soot blowback to create a 'sticky' chamber which can cause extractor breakage. Yes, steel-cased lacquer coated ammo with dirty powder (Wolf) will at first cause excessive bolt thrust then go to the other end of the spectrum and cause extractor failure.

Our solution to this problem is to use upgraded Carpenter-158 bolts in that caliber and stronger extractor spring buffers. We have used the 9610-alloy AR15 SuperBolt with good success as well. We caution buyers against extensive use of steel-case ammo, particularly Wolf. There are other imported ammo brands (Golden Tiger) that do a fine job and don't seem to have the same degree of issue.

[Ken W]

Being on a limited income I have little choice but to use steel cased ammo, mostly .223, 9mm, 7.62x39 and 45 auto by Ulyanovsk and Tula from Wally World. I try to stay away from Wolf since I've had quite a few rounds start to gather rust in a short period of time in storage.

[warriflefan]

So in summary, it sounds like if you have proper headspace and chamber diameter with most calibers, steel case ammo should not cause a problem (unless it has a laquer coat).

[reynolds357]

Originally Posted by Little Rooster

where did you get these results

That question has been asked and answered. If you do not trust the shelf life of steel case ammo; dont buy it.

[medalguy]

I don't buy nice guns to use cheap crap ammo in them.

Those of us who enjoy older military surplus weapons such as AKs and Mosins have no problems using the ammunition these weapons were designed to shoot. I would not and do not shoot steel cased ammo in my higher end rifles either, such as a match AR15 or FAL.

And by the way, steel cased ammo is not "crap" but it is very inexpensive and functions very well in the weapons they were designed to shoot.

As far as the government using steel cased ammo to reduce the usable life of ammunition, keep in mind it's primarily made by comblock countries, not US companies although there are reports of some US companies starting to test this out in an effort to hold down the price of sporting ammunition. It's certainly not the U S government doing this.

[fordtrucksforever]

The cost of copper has risen 10 fold since China has been emerging as a major player in the world economy. Since it takes copper to make brass, cost becomes a big factor. Steel shells have been around a long time and if kept out of the elements, it lasts just like any other ammo. Since it is coated, that lessens potential wear on the gun. I would surmise that extended periods of using steel cartridges would result in some buildup in the chamber area. Regular intervals of cleaning would eliminate any side affects of using them. I found a handful of unspent brass and steel ammo in the back of a truck bed. Been sitting thu the seasons of weather for a year of so. Brass was green in the usual places and coated steel shells were unaffected. Some of the cheaper steel ammo available that are painted with just black lacquer wont hold up as well if left outside.

[HunterAlpha1]

speaking of cooper, last summer i took a small pickup truckload of copper wiring up to the local metal place and got almost $300 for the load, and the majority of the stuff i took up there was the less valuable steel and iron. as i've been saying for months now, copper will soon be the new silver.