identifying flintlock - The Firearms Forum

robertgary21 · 12-09-2011, 08:17 PM

i have recieved an old flintlock pistol i dont know much about it but i have taken it to a antique dealer and a gun shop in the area and both know some about them mostly just how they work and are fairly positive that this is a real gun not a replica. the guy i got the gun from also said that it was a working gun but they have blocked off the chaiber for the fire (where the spark ignights the powder) so thAt it cant be fired anymore since it is such an old gun and they were worried about damaging the gun or hurting the person who attempted to fire it i cant find any markings on the gun but it looks like a functional gun and the hammer does work and fire with the pull of the trigger.

jack404 · 12-09-2011, 08:26 PM

a brass frizzen is not a good sign of legitamacy nor is the frizzen spring connected to anywhere

pic's need to be better to be sure (sorry) but i'd say this is a pistol restored for a tourism market , it may well have been real once , but in this state , its a wall hanger , tourist piece

the un filed and polished trigger guard and trigger are wrong too , old time folks even simplistic ones would never leave a rough cast finish like that , a weapon was a thing of pride to them , they put all that work into inlaying wire but did not file and polish the guard and trigger?? hard to fathom..

sorry

Welcome though eh ! ( i hate saying this stuff to folks , i really do but look at it and look at others similar .. ) cheers

robertgary21 · 12-09-2011, 08:53 PM

what is the frizzen

dcriner · 12-09-2011, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robertgary21

what is the frizzen

The thing that the flint strikes to make sparks, usually steel or case-hardened. For this pistol, the frizzen seems to be flopping around loose. Google is your friend.

Personally, I suspect this is a relatively recent trinket, maybe made in India. I'm considering the decorative, black stock and non-inleted trigger guard. Flintlock pistols were pretty much obsolete by the early to mid 1800s. The stock seems much newer than that. The workmanship on the furniture seems crude, but not all that old.

jack404 · 12-09-2011, 09:06 PM

hope this helps

raven818 · 12-09-2011, 09:14 PM

Quote:

the un filed and polished trigger guard and trigger are wrong too , old time folks even simplistic ones would never leave a rough cast finish like that , a weapon was a thing of pride to them , they put all that work into inlaying wire but did not file and polish the guard and trigger?? hard to fathom..

I'm with you on this, Jack. Looks wrong. Looks like it was made to look middle eastern ( maybe ), and old, but is neither one. Quality is not their either. Sorry dcriner.

jack404 · 12-09-2011, 09:17 PM

i'd say real wood and lock plate , and possibly the cock ( hammer).. the rest is added after and not done well

more time on the scroll work than the trigger and other parts ..

dcriner · 12-09-2011, 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robertgary21

what is the frizzen

The thing that the flint strikes to make sparks. As pointed out by Jack, the frizzen seems to be flopping around loose. A brass frizzen wouldn'd be hard enough to produce good sparks - usually they are steel or case-hardened. (Google is your friend.)

I suspect this is a recent trinket, possibly made in India. I'm considering the highly decorative, black stock and the rough (but maybe not old) furniture.

Above all, don't shoot it!

dcriner · 12-09-2011, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by raven818

Looks wrong. Looks like it was made to look middle eastern ( maybe ), and old, but is neither one. Quality is not there either. Sorry dcriner.

OK, how about made in India to look middle eastern? I wonder if the hammer actually cocks?

But don't shoot it!

jack404 · 12-09-2011, 09:35 PM

i think robertgary already explained this , the touch hole is blocked so no firing ..

i'll dig up pic's of one i had here ..

Hawg · 12-10-2011, 04:46 AM

I don't see where y'all are saying the frizzen is brass. Looks like steel to me. I think some of the roughness is from the poor quality of the pics. it also looks to me like the frizzen spring is connected in the bottom pic so one or the other is a trick of the light. The spring is there and looks like it at least was functional at one time but could be weakened or bent.

hrf · 12-10-2011, 06:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hawg

I don't see where y'all are saying the frizzen is brass. Looks like steel to me. I think some of the roughness is from the poor quality of the pics. it also looks to me like the frizzen spring is connected in the bottom pic so one or the other is a trick of the light. The spring is there and looks like it at least was functional at one time but could be weakened or bent.

Yes, need pics in natural light without flash.

Jim K · 12-10-2011, 11:40 AM

The main frizzen problem I see is that it doesn't appear to be shaped to serve as a pan cover and the connection to the frizzen spring does not appear to work the way it would have to for a functional flintlock.

IMHO, it is is not, and never was intended to be, a functional firearm. It is a fake gun of Asian origin. Value? Under $100 purely as a decorator.

Such guns were rarely seen in this country 10 years ago, mainly being brought back by the few tourists or diplomats who went to the Pakistan-Afghanistan region. (The more common fake guns of North African origin, often sold in Spain, are different.) But with American troops in those areas, and a ban on bringing back modern guns, many of those fake guns have been brought back as souvenirs. Often, when the returning GI finds that the gun is not "real", not an antique, and not valuable, he sells it for a few dollars to a pawn borker or an antique dealer, who often thinks it may be old or valuable. It is neither.

Jim

robertgary21 · 12-10-2011, 04:55 PM

well i've checked it out more the frizzen isnt brass looks like iron or maybe steel i guess but not brass the spring is connected and works the hammer locks in two diffrent potions when u pull it back one all the way back and another halfway the trigger and trigger guard are both rough filed and the inlay in the wood looks to be gold and is not filed or sanded down most does rise above the wood slightly but not all o and the hammer does fire when the trigger is pulled i will post more pictures either tonight or tomarrow so yall can see it a little better thanks for the help

12-09-2011, 08:17 PM	#1
robertgary21 Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3	identifying flintlock i have recieved an old flintlock pistol i dont know much about it but i have taken it to a antique dealer and a gun shop in the area and both know some about them mostly just how they work and are fairly positive that this is a real gun not a replica. the guy i got the gun from also said that it was a working gun but they have blocked off the chaiber for the fire (where the spark ignights the powder) so thAt it cant be fired anymore since it is such an old gun and they were worried about damaging the gun or hurting the person who attempted to fire it i cant find any markings on the gun but it looks like a functional gun and the hammer does work and fire with the pull of the trigger. Attached Images -->

12-09-2011, 08:26 PM	#2
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: identifying flintlock a brass frizzen is not a good sign of legitamacy nor is the frizzen spring connected to anywhere pic's need to be better to be sure (sorry) but i'd say this is a pistol restored for a tourism market , it may well have been real once , but in this state , its a wall hanger , tourist piece the un filed and polished trigger guard and trigger are wrong too , old time folks even simplistic ones would never leave a rough cast finish like that , a weapon was a thing of pride to them , they put all that work into inlaying wire but did not file and polish the guard and trigger?? hard to fathom.. sorry Welcome though eh ! ( i hate saying this stuff to folks , i really do but look at it and look at others similar .. ) cheers

12-09-2011, 08:53 PM	#3
robertgary21 Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3	Re: identifying flintlock what is the frizzen

12-09-2011, 09:06 PM	#5
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: identifying flintlock hope this helps Attached Images

12-09-2011, 09:17 PM	#7
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: identifying flintlock i'd say real wood and lock plate , and possibly the cock ( hammer).. the rest is added after and not done well more time on the scroll work than the trigger and other parts ..

12-09-2011, 09:35 PM	#10
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: identifying flintlock i think robertgary already explained this , the touch hole is blocked so no firing .. i'll dig up pic's of one i had here ..

12-10-2011, 04:46 AM	#11
Hawg Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2011 Posts: 1,584	Re: identifying flintlock I don't see where y'all are saying the frizzen is brass. Looks like steel to me. I think some of the roughness is from the poor quality of the pics. it also looks to me like the frizzen spring is connected in the bottom pic so one or the other is a trick of the light. The spring is there and looks like it at least was functional at one time but could be weakened or bent.

12-10-2011, 11:40 AM	#13
Jim K Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Posts: 6,408	Re: identifying flintlock The main frizzen problem I see is that it doesn't appear to be shaped to serve as a pan cover and the connection to the frizzen spring does not appear to work the way it would have to for a functional flintlock. IMHO, it is is not, and never was intended to be, a functional firearm. It is a fake gun of Asian origin. Value? Under $100 purely as a decorator. Such guns were rarely seen in this country 10 years ago, mainly being brought back by the few tourists or diplomats who went to the Pakistan-Afghanistan region. (The more common fake guns of North African origin, often sold in Spain, are different.) But with American troops in those areas, and a ban on bringing back modern guns, many of those fake guns have been brought back as souvenirs. Often, when the returning GI finds that the gun is not "real", not an antique, and not valuable, he sells it for a few dollars to a pawn borker or an antique dealer, who often thinks it may be old or valuable. It is neither. Jim

12-10-2011, 04:55 PM	#14
robertgary21 Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 3	Re: identifying flintlock well i've checked it out more the frizzen isnt brass looks like iron or maybe steel i guess but not brass the spring is connected and works the hammer locks in two diffrent potions when u pull it back one all the way back and another halfway the trigger and trigger guard are both rough filed and the inlay in the wood looks to be gold and is not filed or sanded down most does rise above the wood slightly but not all o and the hammer does fire when the trigger is pulled i will post more pictures either tonight or tomarrow so yall can see it a little better thanks for the help