7.62 Caliber Questions - The Firearms Forum

Josh Smith · 12-15-2011, 03:30 PM

Hello,

I've been wondering what the wound channel from a 7.62x54R FMJ 147 grain bullet looks like. I bought a bunch of pulled bullets a while back for plinking and target shooting, but it seems to me the base would turn forward.

These do not have air gaps in the noses.

Though I keep soft point around for critters, I do wonder how they'd drop with the FMJ running 2500 to 3000 feet per second. (I normally load 45 grains Varget for fun, but 47.2 grains will run pretty doggone fast.)

Are the lethality and immediate incapacitation effects really that much less on FMJ rifle bullets?

How about if the nose were ground down a bit, not enough to expose the lead, but enough to, say, create a small meplat?

My second question concerns accuracy and precision: With handloads, I can get these bullets into under 1" to 2.5" at 80 yards, depending on the day and how I'm doing. This is on par with what I can do with open sights and the soft points (which are Hornady, by the way).

With open sights, do you believe it would be worth grabbing up a box of Match King or whatever I can find, or are open, or am I at the design limit of open, iron military sights? The front post is down from about 0.080" to 0.060" and tapered, but I'm not sure how much difference that makes. I know I like it better.

So... any help on these two questions would be appreciated!

Thanks,

Josh

jack404 · 12-15-2011, 05:26 PM

wound channel at 400 is huge .. it'll stop anything , man elephant , kombi , pretty much anything mobile it'll stop

as for accuracy heres a pic with issue ammo at 100 meters at a mil rifle comp

10 rounds in 30 seconds i think i took 25 to get this , and no i'm not always this good but it shows whats possible on a good day , i have 5" groups ( 5 round) at 600 meters as well but a awful long time ago

rifle was a Australian army issue L1A1 SSAA is Sporting Shooters Association of Australia the sig is the SSAA prez..

JLA · 12-15-2011, 05:32 PM

only problem with FMJ is it doesnt expand. Sometimes thats a desirable thing and sometimes it isnt. When hunting you want controlled expansion and deep penetration, when target shooting it doesnt matter.

High power rifle rounds ALL generate a kinetic wound channel, also known as temporary cavitation, and the higher the velocitym the greater the effect. It is the impact energy imparted to the soft tissue causing it to expand violently and rapidly. This is what breaks surrounding bones and rips surrounding flesh. If you put a 147 gr FMJ into a deers chest cavity at 2800 fps that impact cavitation channel is going to destroy its heart. it might run but it wont go far.

And to the second question.. Dont waste your money on match bullets if youre putting 2.5MOA on paper with the irons. especially with post and notch sights. youre doing alright.. Keep it up.

JLA · 12-15-2011, 05:33 PM

nice shootn Jack.

jack404 · 12-15-2011, 05:37 PM

wish i could do it like that today , average now is 1.6 " at 100

hate getting old , and miss my SLR ( L1A1)

I've a scoped ishapore in 7.62 NATO that i get 6" groups at 600 still with mil ammo

and my AIA B10 ( LE clone made in OZ) that'll do the same with mill issue , but you do get flyers with mill issue ammo

JLA · 12-15-2011, 05:43 PM

yeah but you can get flyers with just about anything.

gun-nut · 12-16-2011, 06:59 AM

Just a thing you could try and my grandfather told me. Use old phone books or newspaper and pack it tight in a wood frame,(keep the face open to the books) and then wet it down or leave in the rain for a few days, then shoot at it. Make it about 2-3 feet thick. you can recover the bullet and see what the wound chanel will look like. It does work i have tried it. Its the next best thing to having balistics jell. Just ask people to save there books or papers its free and fun. Its nasty even with a FMJ!!!

JLA · 12-16-2011, 04:05 PM

Yep. Wet phone books work great as expansion media. I stack mine about 2 foot thick and wrap them with 100 MPH tape. Then just put em in a tub of water for a couple days.

Grizz · 12-20-2011, 09:30 PM

The other day I put 2 crushed cans on their side so I could see the tops from 85 yards. I got 4/5 hits with my mosin nagant using iron sights. I'm still trying to get better accuracy at 500 yards, so far i've been able to hit a man size target 4 out of 10 times using iron sights at 500 yards.

12-15-2011, 03:30 PM	#1
Josh Smith V.I.P. Member Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Wabash IN Contributor Posts: 66	7.62 Caliber Questions Hello, I've been wondering what the wound channel from a 7.62x54R FMJ 147 grain bullet looks like. I bought a bunch of pulled bullets a while back for plinking and target shooting, but it seems to me the base would turn forward. These do not have air gaps in the noses. Though I keep soft point around for critters, I do wonder how they'd drop with the FMJ running 2500 to 3000 feet per second. (I normally load 45 grains Varget for fun, but 47.2 grains will run pretty doggone fast.) Are the lethality and immediate incapacitation effects really that much less on FMJ rifle bullets? How about if the nose were ground down a bit, not enough to expose the lead, but enough to, say, create a small meplat? My second question concerns accuracy and precision: With handloads, I can get these bullets into under 1" to 2.5" at 80 yards, depending on the day and how I'm doing. This is on par with what I can do with open sights and the soft points (which are Hornady, by the way). With open sights, do you believe it would be worth grabbing up a box of Match King or whatever I can find, or are open, or am I at the design limit of open, iron military sights? The front post is down from about 0.080" to 0.060" and tapered, but I'm not sure how much difference that makes. I know I like it better. So... any help on these two questions would be appreciated! Thanks, Josh __________________ - Smith-Sights Adjustable Sights for the Mosin-Nagant - -->

12-15-2011, 05:26 PM	#2
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: 7.62 Caliber Questions wound channel at 400 is huge .. it'll stop anything , man elephant , kombi , pretty much anything mobile it'll stop as for accuracy heres a pic with issue ammo at 100 meters at a mil rifle comp 10 rounds in 30 seconds i think i took 25 to get this , and no i'm not always this good but it shows whats possible on a good day , i have 5" groups ( 5 round) at 600 meters as well but a awful long time ago rifle was a Australian army issue L1A1 SSAA is Sporting Shooters Association of Australia the sig is the SSAA prez.. Last edited by jack404; 12-15-2011 at 05:35 PM..

12-15-2011, 05:32 PM	#3
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,308	Re: 7.62 Caliber Questions only problem with FMJ is it doesnt expand. Sometimes thats a desirable thing and sometimes it isnt. When hunting you want controlled expansion and deep penetration, when target shooting it doesnt matter. High power rifle rounds ALL generate a kinetic wound channel, also known as temporary cavitation, and the higher the velocitym the greater the effect. It is the impact energy imparted to the soft tissue causing it to expand violently and rapidly. This is what breaks surrounding bones and rips surrounding flesh. If you put a 147 gr FMJ into a deers chest cavity at 2800 fps that impact cavitation channel is going to destroy its heart. it might run but it wont go far. And to the second question.. Dont waste your money on match bullets if youre putting 2.5MOA on paper with the irons. especially with post and notch sights. youre doing alright.. Keep it up. __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

12-15-2011, 05:33 PM	#4
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,308	Re: 7.62 Caliber Questions nice shootn Jack. __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

12-15-2011, 05:37 PM	#5
jack404 Former Guest Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Australia Contributor Posts: 17,622	Re: 7.62 Caliber Questions wish i could do it like that today , average now is 1.6 " at 100 hate getting old , and miss my SLR ( L1A1) I've a scoped ishapore in 7.62 NATO that i get 6" groups at 600 still with mil ammo and my AIA B10 ( LE clone made in OZ) that'll do the same with mill issue , but you do get flyers with mill issue ammo Last edited by jack404; 12-15-2011 at 05:42 PM..

12-15-2011, 05:43 PM	#6
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,308	Re: 7.62 Caliber Questions yeah but you can get flyers with just about anything. __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

12-16-2011, 06:59 AM	#7
gun-nut Senior Member Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: ohio Contributor Posts: 931	Re: 7.62 Caliber Questions Just a thing you could try and my grandfather told me. Use old phone books or newspaper and pack it tight in a wood frame,(keep the face open to the books) and then wet it down or leave in the rain for a few days, then shoot at it. Make it about 2-3 feet thick. you can recover the bullet and see what the wound chanel will look like. It does work i have tried it. Its the next best thing to having balistics jell. Just ask people to save there books or papers its free and fun. Its nasty even with a FMJ!!! __________________ Don't retreat just reload.

12-16-2011, 04:05 PM	#8
JLA TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2007 Location: Heart Of Texas Contributor Posts: 17,308	Re: 7.62 Caliber Questions Yep. Wet phone books work great as expansion media. I stack mine about 2 foot thick and wrap them with 100 MPH tape. Then just put em in a tub of water for a couple days. __________________ It takes 43 muscles to frown, 17 to smile, and 3 for proper trigger squeeze. The latest caliber or gear is no substitute for experience and skill. Rifles and cartridges don't make hits -- shooters do. Fact of life: After Monday and Tuesday, even the calendar says WTF!

12-20-2011, 09:30 PM	#9
Grizz Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Location: Colorado Rocky Mountains Posts: 651	Re: 7.62 Caliber Questions The other day I put 2 crushed cans on their side so I could see the tops from 85 yards. I got 4/5 hits with my mosin nagant using iron sights. I'm still trying to get better accuracy at 500 yards, so far i've been able to hit a man size target 4 out of 10 times using iron sights at 500 yards.