Very Disappointed! :( - The Firearms Forum

gun runner · 12-29-2011, 04:21 PM

Well I finally got to try my new Savage .223 Model 25 yesterday at the farm and I went and worked the action to put a cartridge in the chamber and so yeah it did it fine but then after the bolt wouldnt pull back like if it was stuck and then I had to beat it back with my hand then got another shell in the chamber. BOOM! okay it shot then I went and wanted to pull the bolt back again so it wouldnt pull back so I had to beat it down with my hand then wanted to chamber another cartridge in but this time it wouldnt chamber itself. Its like I have had very bad luck with gun purchases this year. I had a Marlin XT22M I bought in August 2011 that had to get replaced which took forever to do then now its the Savage. What is wrong with these gun manufacturers? *shaking my damn head*

By the way what do you guys think is wrong with the Savage I bought on the 8th of December this year? Any ideas? Thanks

John

Oh yes I took it back to the gun shop which really was Bass Pro Shops. They said they are going to send it back either for repair or replacement but I just hate having to wait for it.

rcairflr · 12-29-2011, 04:37 PM

I'm just curious what ammunition you are using? Reloads or manufacured ammo?

gun runner · 12-29-2011, 04:39 PM

mfg. Tulammo

K75RT · 12-29-2011, 04:44 PM

Tula ammo is steel cased ammo steel does not have the same characteristics as good quality brass ammo' try some brass ammo an your problems should go away...

BobMcG · 12-29-2011, 04:59 PM

Yup, you really should have tried some quality, brass cased ammo before giving up on the rifle. There's a very good chance the ammo was at fault.

gun runner · 12-29-2011, 05:02 PM

Well I already sent it back but I really didnt want to buy more expensive ammo. I just cant see the ammo would be the problem. I oiled the gun and it still wouldnt work. Well hopefully its not the ammunition.

Thanks for the help

rcairflr · 12-29-2011, 05:09 PM

I'm sure "you can't see the ammo being the problem", but my guess is that the ammo is the problem. I did a quick Google search and found more than one person haveing problems with Tula ammo in their .223. Personally, there is no way I would shoot Tula ammo in my .223 and if you choose to shoot the cheapest ammo you can find in your new rifle, expect to have the cheapest results.

RunningOnMT · 12-29-2011, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gun runner

Well hopefully its not the ammunition.

Thanks for the help

I'd rather it was the ammunition than the rifle. You don't have to spend an arm and a leg for .223 ammo. You can get Federal or S&B .223 ammo for around $6.00 a box. Not as cheap as Tul, but not bad.

rcairflr · 12-29-2011, 05:19 PM

Here's some things I found on other forums:

Going back to my friend he has a Smith & Wesson M&P15OR and he has never had a problem with Silver Bear or any other ammo until the Tula steel cased ammo and it wasnt his bolt not wanting to unlock like mine, it was the case getting stuck in the chamber and let me tell you it was stuck good, we had to beat the hell out of a cleaning rod to get it out.

Went to shoot my new (to me) Rem 700/.223 Varmit today. After my sixth round was fired, I tried to open to bolt and eject the cartridge, and it wouldn't budge. The bolt rotates, but will not budge. Also, the safety lever won't move from the "Fire" position.
Any ideas from the Calguns Brain Trust will be greatly appreciated. I'm using Tulammo

Bolt actions tend to have tighter tolerances... so steel cased stuff is a gamble. I ran 1000 rounds of Tula through my AR I had three cases get stuck in the chamber... no biggy on a plinker AR.. but in my precision 700... heck no.

I know that this has been beat to death but why stop now. At the range to day I fired 30 rounds of Federal XM193 55 grain without a problem. Then fired 30 rounds of Tula .223 in 55 grain without a problem. I couple younger boys were eyeballing my rifle so I asked if they wanted to shoot it. After 10 more rounds of the Tula I had a stuck case. I mean STUCK I took the upper off got the bolt out and used a range rod and after several fairly sharp taps was able to get the case out.

Helix_FR · 12-29-2011, 06:09 PM

99% sure its the ammo. 1% change the headspacing was too tight. That ammo is total crap. I had a AK come in 2 days ago with the bolt stuck shut. The shooter never cleaned it, the piston rusted in the gas block. Tula ammo is all he ever shot in it. Its garbage and has no QC

gun runner · 12-30-2011, 12:45 AM

I guess I should call Bass Pro and tell them not to go forward with it (sending it off) but maybe I should get the final results from Savage once they test fire it?

gun runner · 12-30-2011, 12:47 AM

all i know is that its BS. I thought the beautiful rifle was going to shoot as good as it looks. Can you explain why the rounds wouldnt get chambered?

woolleyworm · 12-30-2011, 01:04 AM

I think these are the same related posts : http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=99445

I am 99% certain that if you try a differnt brand, you'll be able to shoot your rifle just fine. QC at Tula means Quit Caring.

Shooter45 · 12-30-2011, 05:22 AM

I have another question Gun Runner. I read that you oiled the rifle before firing but did you clean it first ??

BillM · 12-30-2011, 07:26 AM

Another vote for TULA=CRAP. The stuff is at least consistent--all that
I have tried is junk.

I have a "truck gun" AR. Eats anything. Winchester, Federal, American
Eagle, Black Hills. And EVERYTHING will shoot under 2" at 100 yds.

Except Tula. IF it chambers--and the bolt won't go closed on about
20% or it---it MIGHT put 5 shots on a 9" paper plate at 100.

Helix_FR · 12-30-2011, 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gun runner

all i know is that its BS. I thought the beautiful rifle was going to shoot as good as it looks. Can you explain why the rounds wouldn't get chambered?

Most times its bc the ammo is out of SAMMI spec which is what the chamber is based on. Also, steel case ammo has a lacquer on it to prevent corrosion, this lacquer adds thickness to the steel and will cause it to stick in the chambers. another thing it does is with rapid fire, as the chamber heats the lacquer solidifies. If you take a short break between shot, the chambered round will become glued to the inside of the chamber which will cause the round to not ejector or break a extractor. There are only a few guns that can handle steel ammo and bolt actions and ar's are not one of them. Tula ammo just adds insult to injury buy also not putting enough power in them or no powder at all.

Juker · 12-30-2011, 08:38 AM

gun runner, don't scrimp on ammo. There are those who swear by the steel Russian stuff; I am not one of them, and apparently I'm not alone. I bought a few boxes of Wolf .45 ACP last year at a gun show because it was almost free. It shot OK but left my Colt looking like the inside of a Pinto muffler.

CHW2021 · 12-30-2011, 08:57 AM

No offense, but this is like putting regular grade gasoline in a Ferrari. You can not blame the gun for your misfortunes, steel cased ammo will work fine in some guns; yours is not one of them. Savage builds the rifles with a minimal headspace, that with the lacquer coating apparently played hell with you. When you get it back try brass cased ammo of decent quality.

Dirtypacman · 12-30-2011, 10:29 AM

You would figure that if Savage knew that with the tight tolerances they have that steel cased ammo should not be run through their rifle they would mention it in the manual.

Not that everyone reads them before going to the range but I have been known to glance them over for any recommendations or no-no's.

BobMcG · 12-30-2011, 11:09 AM

Savage should shoulder some of the blame?

Personally, I don't understand why anyone would buy a nice bolt hunting rifle and then purchase junk, steel ammo made for AK/SKS plinking to shoot through it.

deadin · 12-30-2011, 11:15 AM

I don't think I will ever understand why someone would spend good money ($500+ in this case) and then shoot the cheapest crap they can find in it.

(And then complain when they get poor results)

gun runner · 12-30-2011, 03:40 PM

lol^ Well. Im worried if I go get my gun and try brass ammo it might cause the same problem idk

gun runner · 12-30-2011, 03:46 PM

alright im going to go pick it back up and try it out

Lanrezac · 12-30-2011, 04:48 PM

I tried Russian 22 rimfire ammo just once, in my H&R 999 revolver. It shot OK, but trying to extract all 9 rounds at once broke the cylinder retaining catch!

gun runner · 12-30-2011, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shooter45

I have another question Gun Runner. I read that you oiled the rifle before firing but did you clean it first ??

No I didnt.

12-29-2011, 04:21 PM	#1
gun runner Former Guest Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: South Texas Contributor Posts: 1,871	Very Disappointed! :( Well I finally got to try my new Savage .223 Model 25 yesterday at the farm and I went and worked the action to put a cartridge in the chamber and so yeah it did it fine but then after the bolt wouldnt pull back like if it was stuck and then I had to beat it back with my hand then got another shell in the chamber. BOOM! okay it shot then I went and wanted to pull the bolt back again so it wouldnt pull back so I had to beat it down with my hand then wanted to chamber another cartridge in but this time it wouldnt chamber itself. Its like I have had very bad luck with gun purchases this year. I had a Marlin XT22M I bought in August 2011 that had to get replaced which took forever to do then now its the Savage. What is wrong with these gun manufacturers? shaking my damn head By the way what do you guys think is wrong with the Savage I bought on the 8th of December this year? Any ideas? Thanks John Oh yes I took it back to the gun shop which really was Bass Pro Shops. They said they are going to send it back either for repair or replacement but I just hate having to wait for it. --> Last edited by gun runner; 12-29-2011 at 04:23 PM..

12-29-2011, 04:37 PM	#2
rcairflr Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Wichita, Ks Posts: 1,318	Re: Very Disappointed! :( I'm just curious what ammunition you are using? Reloads or manufacured ammo?

12-29-2011, 04:39 PM	#3
gun runner Former Guest Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: South Texas Contributor Posts: 1,871	Re: Very Disappointed! :( mfg. Tulammo

12-29-2011, 04:44 PM	#4
K75RT V.I.P. Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Litchfield County, CT Posts: 309	Re: Very Disappointed! :( Tula ammo is steel cased ammo steel does not have the same characteristics as good quality brass ammo' try some brass ammo an your problems should go away... __________________ Political language. . . is designed to make lies sound truthful and murder respectable, and to give an appearance of solidity to pure wind.

12-29-2011, 04:59 PM	#5
BobMcG Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Somewhere in the Twilight Zone. Contributor Posts: 1,119	Re: Very Disappointed! :( Yup, you really should have tried some quality, brass cased ammo before giving up on the rifle. There's a very good chance the ammo was at fault.

12-29-2011, 05:02 PM	#6
gun runner Former Guest Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: South Texas Contributor Posts: 1,871	Re: Very Disappointed! :( Well I already sent it back but I really didnt want to buy more expensive ammo. I just cant see the ammo would be the problem. I oiled the gun and it still wouldnt work. Well hopefully its not the ammunition. Thanks for the help

12-29-2011, 05:09 PM	#7
rcairflr Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Wichita, Ks Posts: 1,318	Re: Very Disappointed! :( I'm sure "you can't see the ammo being the problem", but my guess is that the ammo is the problem. I did a quick Google search and found more than one person haveing problems with Tula ammo in their .223. Personally, there is no way I would shoot Tula ammo in my .223 and if you choose to shoot the cheapest ammo you can find in your new rifle, expect to have the cheapest results. Last edited by rcairflr; 12-29-2011 at 05:10 PM..

12-29-2011, 05:19 PM	#9
rcairflr Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Wichita, Ks Posts: 1,318	Re: Very Disappointed! :( Here's some things I found on other forums: Going back to my friend he has a Smith & Wesson M&P15OR and he has never had a problem with Silver Bear or any other ammo until the Tula steel cased ammo and it wasnt his bolt not wanting to unlock like mine, it was the case getting stuck in the chamber and let me tell you it was stuck good, we had to beat the hell out of a cleaning rod to get it out. Went to shoot my new (to me) Rem 700/.223 Varmit today. After my sixth round was fired, I tried to open to bolt and eject the cartridge, and it wouldn't budge. The bolt rotates, but will not budge. Also, the safety lever won't move from the "Fire" position. Any ideas from the Calguns Brain Trust will be greatly appreciated. I'm using Tulammo Bolt actions tend to have tighter tolerances... so steel cased stuff is a gamble. I ran 1000 rounds of Tula through my AR I had three cases get stuck in the chamber... no biggy on a plinker AR.. but in my precision 700... heck no. I know that this has been beat to death but why stop now. At the range to day I fired 30 rounds of Federal XM193 55 grain without a problem. Then fired 30 rounds of Tula .223 in 55 grain without a problem. I couple younger boys were eyeballing my rifle so I asked if they wanted to shoot it. After 10 more rounds of the Tula I had a stuck case. I mean STUCK I took the upper off got the bolt out and used a range rod and after several fairly sharp taps was able to get the case out.

12-29-2011, 06:09 PM	#10
Helix_FR TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Imperial, MO Posts: 3,624	Re: Very Disappointed! :( 99% sure its the ammo. 1% change the headspacing was too tight. That ammo is total crap. I had a AK come in 2 days ago with the bolt stuck shut. The shooter never cleaned it, the piston rusted in the gas block. Tula ammo is all he ever shot in it. Its garbage and has no QC __________________ Only cowards shoot with their eyes closed.... helixgunsmith.com

12-30-2011, 12:45 AM	#11
gun runner Former Guest Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: South Texas Contributor Posts: 1,871	Re: Very Disappointed! :( I guess I should call Bass Pro and tell them not to go forward with it (sending it off) but maybe I should get the final results from Savage once they test fire it?

12-30-2011, 12:47 AM	#12
gun runner Former Guest Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: South Texas Contributor Posts: 1,871	Re: Very Disappointed! :( all i know is that its BS. I thought the beautiful rifle was going to shoot as good as it looks. Can you explain why the rounds wouldnt get chambered?

12-30-2011, 01:04 AM	#13
woolleyworm TFF Moderator/Host Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: SW Fort Worth Contributor Posts: 4,883	Re: Very Disappointed! :( I think these are the same related posts : http://www.thefirearmsforum.com/showthread.php?t=99445 I am 99% certain that if you try a differnt brand, you'll be able to shoot your rifle just fine. QC at Tula means Quit Caring. __________________ . What are you gonna do, talk the alien to death? -- (on Sigourney Weaver's worry about Guns in Aliens) "Safety is something that happens between your ears, not something you hold in your hands." "I carry a small gun to compensate for my huge Blue press." .

12-30-2011, 05:22 AM	#14
Shooter45 Administrator Join Date: Feb 2001 Contributor Posts: 8,752	Re: Very Disappointed! :( I have another question Gun Runner. I read that you oiled the rifle before firing but did you clean it first ??

12-30-2011, 07:26 AM	#15
BillM V.I.P. Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Amity Orygun Posts: 380	Re: Very Disappointed! :( Another vote for TULA=CRAP. The stuff is at least consistent--all that I have tried is junk. I have a "truck gun" AR. Eats anything. Winchester, Federal, American Eagle, Black Hills. And EVERYTHING will shoot under 2" at 100 yds. Except Tula. IF it chambers--and the bolt won't go closed on about 20% or it---it MIGHT put 5 shots on a 9" paper plate at 100.

12-30-2011, 08:38 AM	#17
Juker Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2011 Location: Land of Lincoln Contributor Posts: 2,872	Re: Very Disappointed! :( gun runner, don't scrimp on ammo. There are those who swear by the steel Russian stuff; I am not one of them, and apparently I'm not alone. I bought a few boxes of Wolf .45 ACP last year at a gun show because it was almost free. It shot OK but left my Colt looking like the inside of a Pinto muffler. __________________ SHOOT FIRST. SHOOT SECOND. MOST IMPORTANTLY, BE THE MAN WHO'S SHOOTING LAST.

12-30-2011, 08:57 AM	#18
CHW2021 V.I.P. Member Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Louisiana Posts: 467	Re: Very Disappointed! :( No offense, but this is like putting regular grade gasoline in a Ferrari. You can not blame the gun for your misfortunes, steel cased ammo will work fine in some guns; yours is not one of them. Savage builds the rifles with a minimal headspace, that with the lacquer coating apparently played hell with you. When you get it back try brass cased ammo of decent quality.

12-30-2011, 10:29 AM	#19
Dirtypacman Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Merrimac Valley, MA Posts: 908	Re: Very Disappointed! :( You would figure that if Savage knew that with the tight tolerances they have that steel cased ammo should not be run through their rifle they would mention it in the manual. Not that everyone reads them before going to the range but I have been known to glance them over for any recommendations or no-no's. __________________ Member HHRG and HSC, NRA Life Member, GOAL Member LTC-A

12-30-2011, 11:09 AM	#20
BobMcG Advanced Senior Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Somewhere in the Twilight Zone. Contributor Posts: 1,119	Re: Very Disappointed! :( Savage should shoulder some of the blame? Personally, I don't understand why anyone would buy a nice bolt hunting rifle and then purchase junk, steel ammo made for AK/SKS plinking to shoot through it.

12-30-2011, 11:15 AM	#21
deadin Senior Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 858	Re: Very Disappointed! :( I don't think I will ever understand why someone would spend good money ($500+ in this case) and then shoot the cheapest crap they can find in it. (And then complain when they get poor results)

12-30-2011, 03:40 PM	#22
gun runner Former Guest Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: South Texas Contributor Posts: 1,871	Re: Very Disappointed! :( lol^ Well. Im worried if I go get my gun and try brass ammo it might cause the same problem idk

12-30-2011, 03:46 PM	#23
gun runner Former Guest Join Date: Nov 2011 Location: South Texas Contributor Posts: 1,871	Re: Very Disappointed! :( alright im going to go pick it back up and try it out

12-30-2011, 04:48 PM	#24
Lanrezac Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: Milwaukee, WI Posts: 687	Re: Very Disappointed! :( I tried Russian 22 rimfire ammo just once, in my H&R 999 revolver. It shot OK, but trying to extract all 9 rounds at once broke the cylinder retaining catch!