Defending yourself after the collapse of society

[cycloneman]

well your not going to want to hear what i have to say

leave the UK

[jstgsn]

Just throwing in my two cents.
I really really like a 20 guage youth pump shotgun from mossberg or remmington. Easily changed to hold 5 rounds. Comes with three chokes. I suggest modified if you are going to throw in some slugs. Ammo should be readily available and easy to reload. Great in tight spaces and does the job.
This is for 1 yard to 40 yards (or more.)
also read up on flashlights, medications, alarms, water, food, etc. Jack can send you in the right direction for all of this, as well as most on this forum.
I only piped in as I really like my .20 ga. mossberg youth model shotgun for home defense.

[jeffadaklin]

I've been looking at some new bullpup-design shotguns. I don't have time to read all the posts and hope this isn't a repeat. I did see something aout barrel-length limits so this may not help, but here is a typical ad for the new KelTec version.

http://www.tombstonetactical.com/cat...in-14rd-black/

Of course the advantage of the bullpup design is its length, under a full-length coat you could even carry it if allowed, with a single-point sling. But with the ammo capacity and ease of mobility inside a home, it might be just the thing. Which is why I'm considering one. Best of luck, and let's pray none of us ever need these weapons .

[The Duke]

Welcome aboard the forum, Martwizz...

I hate beating a dead horse, but my vote goes for the double barrel...Me? Id go with a 12 ga and if your stuck with 24+ inch barrel its considerably shorter than a pump...A 20g is a second choice...It will throw less shot than a 12 but has milder recoil and may be better for a novice...A good pump gun will give you an extra shot which is good to have, but a bit slower to reload unless you practice a lot....If you can get a quality double with automatic ejectors that will eject the spent shell(s) all the better...Fire one barrel, break it open and it ejects the spent shell while leaving the unfired round in the chamber...Side by side or over-under either is a good choice....PLUS with a double gun, if something goes wrong with one barrels mechanism or you get a misfire, you still have the other ready to go.

A high cap .22, preferably semi auto and a good number of extra magazines is in my SHTF kit...High quality something like the Smith&Wesson AR-22...Good platform to add a small scope or red dot sight...

I might avoid the surplus military rifles unless in excellent condition...some may be a litte war-weary while others are perfectly good....Think Id go with a good quality hunting rifle like a Remington 700 or FN...get one with iron sights and add a scope if you desire...Caliber? If your not a gun guy, Id go with a .233R.... .308 is better but has a stout recoil and major boom, making it a little more difficult for a non-shooter to get acquainted with...Id try to stay with a current military caliber if not forbidden for civilians, as ammo may be easier to re-supply...

One thing you didnt mention is the availability of ammunition...Im sure pistol caliber ammo is hard if not impossible to find there...Get a rifle and shotgun in a caliber and gauge that ammunition is readily available to you...Stockpile as much as you can without attracting unwanted attention by the coppers..

Somewhere I read at one time or another that the Brit cowboy shooters can have cap and ball pistols, but they must be kept at the range...If you can possess at home, a brace of these black powder pistols are a still a formadable handgun when you cant get anything better.

Finally get a good strong gun safe...I suspect they already have a mandatory safe law in GB.....And resist letting your neighbors and friends know what you have...Its hard not to show off your hardware, but the fewer people know about your guns the better...Also dont forget a good quality flashlight, one is ok, two or more is better.....but thats a topic for another day...

[Alpo]

Couple of thought, here, Duke.

Yes, over/unders usually come with automatic ejectors. I don't think in terms of O/U, since I ain't got none. Side-by-sides is what comes to mind when I hear "double barrel". There are very few SxS with auto ejectors.

If you are going for the "twice barrel" so in case one breaks you still have a functioning gun (which ain't a bad idea), make sure the gun has double triggers. Many doubles, both SxS and O/U are single trigger, and rely on the recoil of the first shot to set the trigger for the next one. When it's broke, it's all broke.

It's true that military surplus might be worn, but they are still a better choice than civilian guns.

A civilian hunting rifle is designed to shoot three, maybe four shots in an outing. You don't go "hunting" and shoot 3 or 4 hundred rounds. Military rifle, though, is designed to shoot hundreds, if not thousands, of rounds. In battle, it's gonna last longer.

Think of it like a car. If you're going off road in the back woods, you'd want a Jeep. Running down the beach, you'd want a dune buggy. Driving down the residential street, your sedan or station wagon. Now, both the 4x4 and the dune buggy can be driven to work and the store. They won't be as comfortable. You can't carry as many people or as much stuff, but they will work. You station wagon probably won't climb rocks too well, though. Your sedan will probably get stuck in the beach sand. That's not saying your wagon or sedan aren't good cars. They are just not made for what you are trying to do.

Lastly, I don't agree with that "20 gauge has less recoil" thing. 20 gauge guns are smaller and lighter. I think the lightness of the gun counteracts the lighter recoil of the shell. It's like - I have a 6" Python. Fairly large heavy gun. 38s out of it have very little recoil. I also have a 2" aluminum frame J frame Smith. 38s out of it have MUCH more recoil. I know many people that enjoy shooting the Python with 38s, but are afraid of that little Smith.

With a 12 gauge gun, you can get lighter kicking ammo, if you're worried about it. They don't make "lighter recoiling" loads for 20s.

[Rhuga]

With a break down of society reminds me of Vietnam and what the civilians had to do to survive. I most likely will stay under the radar. My guns will be concealed with only the immediate family knowing about them (I Hope). A super good radio will help to keep informed and lots of batteries. Flash lights will be needed. But, be careful at night that a light doesn't draw unnecessary attention to you

I have food storage, but if the catastrophe lasts longer than say a week cooking will be hard due to the aroma. This will be when the grief will start. Hungry people going from door to door for a handout. Once you let it known that you have food you will be a target. My wife is a good hearted soul and will probably get us all killed. To survive you will have to be "Junk Yard Dog" Mean". Cause God helps those that help themselves.

The firearm's I will have will depend on how many people are in my group. A couple of pump 12 gauge shotguns or more would be good to have, cause they can hit multiple targets that are close together, a good sniper rifle for the important shots, some .22 LR and other handguns all with plenty of ammo. The calibers should be of a common type that could be found in any number of places. Knives will be important, and other types of weapons would be handy.

I don't know if I would like to be in a drastic situation where only the strong survive. I do know this,"I would have trouble trusting anyone". And while my home is not a fortress. I would have to do all I could to make it so, or go to some other place that was better fortified. I would not join with all the nuts heading for the hills. Cause, you would leave important reserves at home and after the first hour the roads will all be clogged with no one going anywhere.

There is a lot of other options that need to be considered. A well thought out list of things to do made out ahead of time will be very important when the hammer goes down so you can act without thinking about it. Thinking should have been done ahead of time.

If your out-gunned, stealth will be all that you will have.

[DixieLandMan]

I have told my wife that when the SHTF, guns, gold and crops will be what people need. I say that because the American dollar does not buy as much as it once did but gold will always hold at least some value. Crops (food) I can grow on my farm and guns to defend it all.

[carver]

Originally Posted by DixieLandMan

I have told my wife that when the SHTF, guns, gold and crops will be what people need. I say that because the American dollar does not buy as much as it once did but gold will always hold at least some value. Crops (food) I can grow on my farm and guns to defend it all.

If the economy fails you will find yourself bartering for food, and other needed things. Food will be most important, right after water. If I have some pigs, but no chickens, then I can swap pigs for chickens, but a ton of gold won't buy you one of my pigs, I can't eat it. I suppose I could melt it down and cast some bullets from it, but that just might be the only use for gold, silver. Gems fall into the same catogory. If it won't protect me, feed me, shelter me, or get me water, I have no use for it.

[jeffadaklin]

If the S that HTF is riots, that would be our most urgent concern. The people will gather in groups and go after whatever they desire at the moment. That may be stereos, TVs, money, and especially our guns. I know the TVs and stuff will not be important to any thinking human being, but the idiots who roam neighborhoods in groups won't think of that. I believe in the following days and weeks THEN the food, water, necessary living supplies will be their next target. I'm no expert, so if that's wrong I am open to corrections. Guess my point is, ammo will be critical. If we run out of that the first few days, we'll have no means of protecting that food, water etc.
I've been buying a box here and there, not in panic but, an extra box here and there and putting it away for later.
Oh carver, keep meaning to tell you I like your 'signature.' Always reminds me of Thessalonians, can;t remember verse, but it says "And if the man does not work then he shall also not eat.'

[The Duke]

Alpo....And there is NOTHING more intimidating than looking at the business end of a pair of side by side 12g double barrels...

[raven818]

Where's a good blunderbuss when ya need one? Loaded with anything that fits, a little wad, a little powder.

[dustydog]

Originally Posted by raven818

Where's a good blunderbuss when ya need one? Loaded with anything that fits, a little wad, a little powder.

Oddly,a good choice,and something not beyond the ability of most folks familiar with hand tools.Would dispense with the flared muzzle,only aids in loading on the run.Look up home built muzzleloaders.Also,the is a Youtube video that you might enjoy,look up "real steampunk cannon",a young person on this side of the pond built it,I copied it with a few improvements,and it's rather amazing.Powder can be home made,and primers can be made from common strike anywhere matches.
On a lighter note,don't forget the longbow,surely the Crown has not reicended Henry VIII's law requiring the yeomanry to practice at the butts with a bow drawing the clothyard shaft.

[Alpo]

There's an interesting thread on another board.

The end of the world as we know it. The whole neighborhood gets together, and one of those "I'm in charge here" types (y'all all know the feller I mean, right?) steps up and says "we need to send a group around to take an inventory of what everybody has, so we can make a list of who has what and who needs what, so that we can ALL survive".

The question was "how would you respond to that?".

I was thinking, "Shoot him before he finishes talking, and when the rest of the neighbors look at you in shock, say, "Hey, it was that kind of communist crap that caused this".

[308 at my gate]

Originally Posted by Alpo

There's an interesting thread on another board.

The end of the world as we know it. The whole neighborhood gets together, and one of those "I'm in charge here" types (y'all all know the feller I mean, right?) steps up and says "we need to send a group around to take an inventory of what everybody has, so we can make a list of who has what and who needs what, so that we can ALL survive".

The question was "how would you respond to that?".

I was thinking, "Shoot him before he finishes talking, and when the rest of the neighbors look at you in shock, say, "Hey, it was that kind of communist crap that caused this".

Now that is funny.

[Inthewind1976]

Funny, yes. The best way to handle that guy? ALSO yes. I'm sure that when the SHTF, we will see the Louisiana Storms approach by "Gubment" types - close the roads, and place guards on all the water, food, etc. Cause of COURSE, only the brilliant folks at the Gubment are qualified to determine who actually NEEDS food, water, etc. And of course, ANYTHING that they will do will be for the "best interest of the nation as a whole." Sooooooooooo, as far as necessities for each of us to have, I'm thinking ammunition, water, food, in that order!

[cycloneman]

Can you still buy cannon fuse in the UK.

All good zombie kits need some cannon fuse.

[The Duke]

Yep, I agree with Inthewind...AMMO and GUNS will be the best barter...Unless you got some horse flesh in you back yard.,..Plow yer garden and then eat the horse when he plays out..

Hope you will have some night vision and some one to do the PM watch on the garden our there wont be anything left,.,.even the horse...

[Rhuga]

Originally Posted by Alpo

There's an interesting thread on another board.

The end of the world as we know it. The whole neighborhood gets together, and one of those "I'm in charge here" types (y'all all know the feller I mean, right?) steps up and says "we need to send a group around to take an inventory of what everybody has, so we can make a list of who has what and who needs what, so that we can ALL survive".

The question was "how would you respond to that?".

I was thinking, "Shoot him before he finishes talking, and when the rest of the neighbors look at you in shock, say, "Hey, it was that kind of communist crap that caused this".

I also like, "walk softly and carry a big stick or some dynamite."

Just might have to get out the dancing gear and start practicing up on the Rain Dance. Water would be scarce here in Nevada.

[raven818]

I'm gonna stick with 9mm. I think it will be the most common ammo found on bodies.

[Inthewind1976]

lol, Raven. I like that - ".............most common found on bodies."

[Fast Forward]

If all law has gone to the crapper get what ever will spit out a lot of Lead AK 47 every Arab has one why shouldn,t you

[ryan42]

You could move over here and pretty much get whatever gun you wanted.Im just joking i thought that might get a laugh.Good luck

[Old Grump]

Keep in mind that this is for DEFENSE. Although i admit that when the situation calls for it, i beleive i would be able to kill for my survival, this is purely a safety related thing. If this time ever comes, it is going to be the people with the weapons who are in charge.

I am not crazy. Seriously.

I hope this is an interesting discussion that we can all participate in

Sign in at http://www.armbritain.com/forum/ and support UKIP. Not all the answers you want but it's a good start. Tell them I sent you because they need more Brits and fewer yanks on board.

[raven818]

I can't think of the name of it right now, maybe somebody else knows...they've started a new reality show. It's about folks who are living toward their worse dooms-day scenarios. What they have, and what they think they still need when the SHTF.

If I see the commercial again, I'll post it.

[AL MOUNT]

Originally Posted by raven818

I'm gonna stick with 9mm. I think it will be the most common ammo found on bodies.

Well yea, maybe the "Homies from the Hood" ...

but I'd kinda look see if I culd figure what caliber kilt those bad guys....

I tend to remember a petite little blonde girly that got shot point blank

in the skull and just resigned from Congress to recuperate.

9 mike mikes might bounce off a homie from the hood's thick skull.

If that sounds Racist to ya.... I don't give a rat's patoohey.. "Facts R Facts"... live with em..