Defending yourself after the collapse of society

[jeffadaklin]

It's sad that England was overrun with liberals, I hope and PRAY EVERY DAY we do not end up with a liberal pres, Senate AND House. With the current pres, we would be totally destroyed within two years- he's close to it now.
One of your countrymen contributed to an article in one of our gun magazines recently, in which he warned us of two things. One, not to elect liberals and two, not to argue about "I want my guns" to people here. In the first place he said that the people here that are anti-gun will not change their minds until it's too late ( he visits here reularly, even lives here some.) The second part was when we argue with people who are on the fence, we shouldn't argue for guns, but for our rights. He said we need to tell them- if govt. takes away our right to own firearms, they will take away other rights. So if the fence-sitter doesn't want to lose rights he values, then he should fight for OUR rights.
God bless you sir, maybe we could pray for England, as well.

[Recon 173]

Just to let you know where I am coming from, I spent 19 months in combat with the paratroopers in Viet Nam. I learned a lot from the other guys with whom I served. One of the most important things I can tell you is to LAYER YOUR DEFENSES.

Now, having said that, I would suggest you consider getting a scoped .303 British SMLE for precision shooting needs. With practice, a good rifleman can easily shoot out to 600 meters or so. That takes care of long range and precision shooting once you've mastered that rifle and scope.

Next, you should consider a semi-automatic .22 LR rifle like a Ruger 10-22. The Ruger 10-22 can be adapted to fit a variety of different equipment as needed. You can add on flashlights, red dot sight systems, lasers, telescopes and so on. One nice feature is that if you practice with them you can learn to shoot them almost as fast as some machineguns. You can also get high capacity magazines for them if you want or are legally allowed to have over there. With practice and learning to use the Mozambique shooting technique, at close range a .22 caliber rifle like a Ruger 10-22 is a thing to behold. That takes care of your close range needs.

If things get down to melee fighting and too dangerous to use rifles then you should have something for slicing and cutting. When I was overseas, I carried a good, sharp sheath knife on my web belt. The sheath knife came in handy for all sorts of things such as cutting cords, cutting wood and so on. It was always there for personal defense if I needed it. Now, with what I know, I would include either a hammer, hatchet or tomahawk for personal defense needs as well as the sheath knife.

I like the people from Great Britain. I love to watch a pretty British girl and listen to her talk with her accent. Her accent would drive me nuts. I could waste a whole day just watching and listening to her but I'm pretty sure that sooner or later somebody with a badge would throw up stalking laws in my direction or something. But I've been to London, visited the Tower of London and did a Jack the Ripper walk with Don Rumbelow as the guide. Stopped by the old Ten Bells Pub and had a drink too. I have fond memories of London. I hope that one day your nation returns to saner thoughts on private ownership of firearms. I hope that return happens before something drastic occurs and your people suffer from the errors of the anti-gun liberals.

[FreeWill]

I wouldn't take these posts so seriously.

[tango1niner]

Lots of good ideas here. Whatever you decide to get you need lots to feed it.

[aa1911]

not knocking a shotgun by any means and I own quite a few including a couple special purpose HD guns with tac lights, shellholders, etc... While they're great for one or two home intruders, they are not anywhere near the capability of semi's

there's a reason militaries around the world use magazine fed 'assault' rifles. They are the most effective weapon over a broad range of scenarios.

A good M4 variant AR15 works great at 1 foot or 500m and reloads can be accomplished in about a second with a little practice. 30 rounds on tap is an incredible increase in firepower over any shotgun, even the saiga's and the like. not to mention the 60 and 90 round mags out there now.

M14, FN FAL, AK, AR are the top rifles that are ideal for SHTF as they are of decent to excellent caliber, good availability of ammo as well as magazines and parts.

shotgun you're severely limited in capacity as well as range. sure, you can have a slug gun that does well at several hundred meters but won't hold a candle to sustained fire from 7.62 20 rounds at a time with near instant reloads.

military weapons are designed to kill. The ammunition is not necessarily. So have both, FMJ's kill just fine BTW but if you want to improve, there's plenty of expanding bullet choices for all.


All that being said, yes I read the first post so keeping THAT in mind,

a good pump shotgun with as much mag capacity as legal would be ideal. Maybe even a Saiga if that falls within the legal 'semi auto shogtun' although a pump is more reliable IMO. I do have a coach gun that is frequently the only shotgun at the ready but much prefer the mossberg 590 or a rem 870 with a tac light.

A coach gun can be reloaded quick but limited to 2 rounds. Pump can be reloaded just as quick but with up to 10 rounds or more, big difference.

so food for thought on SHTF here in general, and my .02 to the OP if he's still able to read/post here. Best wishes,

AA

[Kent Detective]

Martin,

Very interesting thread for me.

You need to consider .22 Magnum. These produce twice the penetration/stopping power of a .22LR. it's still a rimfire round.

I'm a paranoid Brit living 35 miles South of London.

I'm a 49 year old retired Copper (18 years). I use my shotguns and rimfire rifles for pest control (rabbits etc).

Here in the UK you need to be extremely careful when discussing firearms for defensive purposes. Our gun laws don't allow this to be a valid reason to obtain firearms.

It's a sad state of affairs when Brits can't post on threads like this one like our North American cousins can with impunity.

99% of gun crime in the UK is commited by criminals using unlicenced guns NOT legal FAC holders like myself.

As I have said, I use my firearms in perfectly legal and ethical manner but that is not to say they won't come in handy when the financial collapse comes (and it surely will within the next few years). I will be able to feed my family etc.

I have sent you a PM.

I'd love to keep in touch.

I am currently in the process of turning my double size garage (40 ft x 40 ft) into an Emergency Survival Centre!

I'd love to hear from you. I have given you my email.

All the best

[Palmetto]

I love the .22 WMR round and I think that in a SHTF scenario, a .22 is the way to go. Ammo is lightweight and you can carry huge amounts. Also, the report will not give you away... I like the .22LR and the .22 Magnum.

The Eskimos have hunted large animals like Seal etc with .22 Magnum for decades...

[soundguy]

while i hope to have other options with me as well in a EOC... a 22lr seems like it should always be a part of a long term plan.

you can carry 1000 rnds in the place of a common 20rnd brick of rifle, or a 50rnd brick of pistol ammo..e tc..

[siplace]

There is a slight problem with the Legal with a License thing.

Now this is all just my opinion and is no more valid that anyone else's. I have no crystal ball but I have given this some serious thought over the last several years. Ever since Obummer got elected.

I believe there will be a short period of Martial Law before the absolute final collapse. During this period of a year possibly two any weapon that is registered or licensed will be confiscated. This is especially true in the UK where there is not even the formality of Posse Comitatus to get around.

So once you have what ever it is you think you will need you also have to be able to keep it. Just because it is legal now means nothing if Martial Law is declared. Keeping your weapon of choice, that will be the hard part. As things continue to collapse the penalty for violating the weapons rules will increase in severity.

Also look into getting yourself one of those large flashlights that use 6 D cell batteries. One from a company like Maglight. You might get in trouble for carrying a cricket bat at night but a flashlight now... Hell it's just a flashlight right? Except that it is almost 2 feet long heavy and made of aricraft aluminium. They make a hell of a billy club.