CCI Primer Issue

[Freebore]

Just got back from the range today after tuning up a new Weatherby in .223 During this session I ran into a new problem I haven't actually seen before, out of approximately 100 rounds four of them experienced cracking on the side of the primer cup. In the past I've had primers puncture, crater, enlarge, and generally leak around the edges, but this is the first time I've seen them crack?. The load is 25g/4064/55g HPBT, sparked by CCI #450 Mag primers in new Winchester brass. This is a compressed load, but within pressure limits.

I will try the same load again using different primers ?...as for the Weatherby, she still grouped very nice, well within an inch (My Opinion of Accurate)

[Freebore]

Forgot the pics

[BETH]

wow i can't help u but someone will i am sure

[The Duke]

Freebore...How old is that brass? Range pickup...?? Not looking down my snoot at range pickup, I got a lot of it....It appears to be slightly enlarged primer pockets, allowing some gas leakage around the primer...Maybe some brass that was fire too hot too many times...Primer isnt backed out or flattened, so no real sign of pressure...I think its gas leakage.

[steve4102]

New brass, correct? I'm stumped.

[LDBennett]

Like anything made by humans, it could be a bad lot of CCI primers.I'd contact CCI.

I don't use CCI primers as years ago they were deemed to be made of "too thick" or "too hard" of a metal and gave problem seating them right, or so the story went at the time. I get deals on Winchester primers and have for decades so that is all I use. A magazine test years ago showed Winchester primers, in general, to be more energetic than other brands which keeps me using them today.

LDBennett

[Freebore]

I'm going to go along with LD's comment regarding CCI primers, these were from an older lot, and during the seating process they seemed a little more difficult to seat (in new brass) than usual. I agree, Winchester's seem to be more user friendly.

[steve4102]

Have you checked the bolt face for any damage?

[gdmoody]

I have never seen that before! Is it the primers or is it a bad batch of brass?

The primers got the immediate blame, but did you consider that the brass could be the problem?

[Freebore]

Could be brass, or primers...later on today I'll pull these cases apart and make a further determination...I still have a few unfired cases from this lot. I'll post additional pics

Weatherby's have an excellent way of handling case/primer ruptures, the bolt face fully encloses the case head, along w/gas ports and a fluted bolt body...other than dirty the bolt face is still like new.

[JLA]

Definitely loose primer pockets. Id toss the brass and get new.

[Freebore]

I pulled the primers from the susupected cases today and found all of them to be the correct sizes. Both the new (old stock) and recently fired primers measured 0.175 while the primer pockets (before and after firing) measured in at 0.172 & 0.173 which is about normal. I suspect that the primers are the issue rather than the cases. One primer actually has a small hole in the edge of the cup.

Note: The rest of the primers from this old stock are currently soaking in WD-40 waiting for further disposition.

[LDBennett]

I had a CCI primer (I know, I don't use CCI primers but that is all I can get for 50BMG) catch the edge of the primer pocket and get very slightly damaged while inserting. Of course stuff like this happens with any caliber and I just shot it anyway. This time the primer pocket leaked and took a small divot out of the bolt face. Now, this was my fault not CCI's but it gives a remarkable illustration of what 50,000 psi hot gases can do to steel. Sorry about the soft focus but I think it is clear enough to see the problem. Interestingly, the bad surface does not transfer to brass shot in the gun. I, of course, smoothed all the sharp edged as much as possible.

LDBennett

[myfriendis410]

I'd blame it on the junky WW brass that's being sold these days. Elongated primer flash holes, irregular pockets etc. If you were to examine closely the relationship of the oblong flash hole to the leak point you might see a correlation.

[243winxb]

You have a defective primer. Pressure has nothing to do with it. Most times the bolt face is pock marked.

[Dan Newberry]

maybe they got some pistol primers in the box... they are softer shelled than rifle primers, and could be a problem in a rifle.

I don't use CCI pistol primers, so I don't know what color they are... I've heard red or light red (?)

Anyway, the rifle primers would have yellow compound.

What you see there seems like a classic issue of pistol primer in a rifle cartridge...

Dan

[Popgunner]

I see some cratering on the firing pin indent-not always pressure, usualy is a pin that's a little loose. If it was pressure overcoming the cup I would expect to see the cup filling out the beveled area but it's not on Freebore's examples. With an enlarged pocket you'd expect the leaking you're getting but not primers piercing & not where they are piercing. Weak cup material?

[azleite]

Just curious, why are you using magnum primers?

[al45lc]

I've used tens of thousands of CCI primers, never had a problem not directly related to my own error.

[Freebore]

Originally Posted by azleite

Just curious, why are you using magnum primers?

The load is a compressed load (powder fills almost up to the case mouth, seating the bullet compresses the powder very tight in the case), but it is not a maximum load. I have pretty much always used mag primers for compressed loads, slow burning, and ball/spherical powder loads. I've found that using mag primers under these conditions has given me very dependable ignition and good accuracy.

I'm sure a standard primer would perform well also, but this is a load I've used with a lot of success in other .223's (w/24" barrels).

When I initially seated the CCI primers I did notice they were somewhat harder to seat, since then I have primed the same cases with Winchester primers and the seating pressure is what I would call normal. I've shot my fair share of CCI primers with no problems, this older batch for some reason was different.

[Twicepop]

Freebore...a friend of mine had a similar problem with his .223 ,also using Winchester brass. Your load as stated is not "max", Winchester has less internal capacity than other brands of brass. I would start the process of elimination by trying this load in some other manufacturers brass, with the bullet, powder, and primer selection the same.

those who beat their guns into plowshares, will plow for thoses who didn't

[243winxb]

Hodgdon lists maximum at 25.7gr. Defective primer or gas leakage causing primer failure. Reduce the load, retest.

[redwing carson]

This can be caused by brass that is too under sized to the chamber. The primer moves rear ward from the pocket and is reseated during the firing cycle. A heavy load can allow gas to escape thru flash hole burning the primer . primer pocket and bolt face. If you are using an SB Die I would try a standard sizer. Make sure all lube is cleaned from the case and the chamber. Also recheck the rifles head space.