10/22 volquartsen 2000 trigger & FTE

Discussion in '.22-Rimfire Forum' started by Curlyjoe_99, Mar 19, 2012.

  1. Curlyjoe_99

    Curlyjoe_99 Member

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    I couldn't find any previous posting on this issue so just some quick questions for those who have been there and done this...

    My situation:

    I installed a drop-in volquartsen 2000 trigger assembly into my 10/22 this winter. up to this weekend i thought i had a great deal going. however, i have found that i now have a FTE issue when shooting federal bulk ammo. this is the first time since the trigger job that i have shot federal and have yet to have any issues with other brands (remmington, winchester or CCI-all types or any other brand). When looking at the action after cleaning, i see that the "extractor pin"(not sure if this is its proper name) was indeed part of the new assembly. the bolt carrier group was not replaced nor modified.

    BTW: if it matters, the fired casing basically spins a 180 and the base of the 22 casing is facing to the front and above the following round that is halfway into the chamber. this happened every 15-20 rounds.


    so my questions:
    Is this normal for a rifle that had previously had no issues shooting any brand of ammunition to develop a "dislike" after this kind of modification?

    what would I look for when comparing the original trigger assembly and the volquartsen assembly for differences?

    Maybe i can swap out the new extractor pin with the factory one, or did volquartsen redesign the entire assembly?

    Any suggestion beside not shooting federal ammo are appreciated. I like the 10/22 because it normally shoots what ever you load into it and, if possible, would like to retain this ability.

    Thanks in advance,

    Curlyjoe
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2012
  2. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    Curlyjoe_99:

    I have had no experience with that particular trigger assembly but I can give you some help on the basics so you can figure out what and why it is not always working.

    The extractor on the bolt face does not extract cases from the chamber.... the gas pressure does the extraction. The job of the extractor in actual firing is to hold the empty case against the bolt face so the ejector can reach it and throw the empty case out of the chamber area. The extractor controls the direction the ejector throws the case. (When manually operating the bolt the extractor does extract the cartridge from the the chamber).

    The key is the extractor has to hold the case against the bolt face. To test if the extractor is adjusted correctly pull the bolt out of the gun. Then slip a loaded cartridge under the extractor onto the bolt face. You should be able to gently shake the bolt with the cartridge on its face and the cartridge should not fall off the bolt face. If your extractor will not do that then the angle of the claw and/or the spring behind the extractor need adjustment. The angle of the claw should be so as to pull the case to the bolt face and not to push it off the bolt face. After this adjustment the bottom edge of the claw of the extractor needs to be broken ever so slightly so as to allow the case rim to push the extractor out of the way as the case moves onto the bolt face.

    The 10/22 has aways kind of stumped me in regards to the ejector. It appears that the ejector is part of the magazine but the gun itself has an ejector too. Either way the ejection must occur.

    Hope this helps in determining what is wrong with your 10/22.

    LDBennett
  3. Tom

    Tom Member

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    One reason for this could be the ammo is just a bit lower powered than what you have used in the past. It may be marginal to push the bolt back and cycle the thing. The new hammer spring of the new trigger unit is probably just a bit stronger than the original unit and causing the FTE. Look at the bolt and see if the lower rear edge is smooth and rounded. If it isn’t, you might consider polishing it and rounding it a bit more. Take a look at the hammer and see if the hammer face is smooth. If it is rough, consider polishing it a bit. If that fails, you might want to try a slightly lighter recoil spring. Various suppliers have them. You may have to take apart your recoil spring/guide to do it. I took a 10/22 magnum spring guide, shortened it and cut a narrow groove in it for a little c clip so I can easily take it apart. If you want to change the charging handle, this is a good time to do it.
  4. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    Federal Bulk ammo is a pretty energetic High Velocity ammo. I would find it hard to believe that Win, Rem and CCI ammo's cycle the gun and Federal will not(??). Was any of this ammo Standard Velocity? Federal is certainly more energetic than the Std Vel ammo's.

    Everybody seems to have a little different rim design or lube and it could be that is the problem. Maybe Federal Bulk rims is not a good match for the extractor used. Or it could be the the lube used by Federal is gumming up the chamber enough to make the case a bit sticky in extraction. When was the last time the chamber was cleaned?

    Federal Bulk is good stuff for an inexpensive ammo. It has fewer failures to fire than any cheaper ammo I have used. I use it in all my plinking guns but some guns do not like it (I have a couple of those). Those guns that don't like it only seem to like CCI Mini-mags. If a gun won't shoot CCI Mini-mags there is something really wrong with it, in my experience.

    LDBennett
  5. CampingJosh

    CampingJosh Well-Known Member

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    A tangent, but that's never stopped me from posting before. :D

    I too have guns that only like Mini Mags. Or so I thought.

    Try some Federal Auto Match in them. I haven't had it (or Mini Mags) fail in anything, and it's less expensive than Mini Mags. It's my go-to choice for .22 ammo anymore.
  6. Tom

    Tom Member

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    I'm glad people have had good luck with Federal bulk stuff. More recently that has been the worst ammo I have seen: FTF, squibs stuff like that. I carry a cleaning rod to get out the squibs if I plan to shoot the stuff. Other Federal stuff, particularly the 711B, works very well.
  7. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    TOM:

    To be clear the Federal Bulk I use is #745. Over the years (and that, I am sure, can change) the Fed #745 has had the least problem (duds, FTF etc) of any of the inexpensive ammo's I have used.

    Part of the problem is the guns. You'll almost never have FTF in a bolt gun 22. Semiautos, both pistol and rifles, are another story. If the chamber is dirty or the lead bullet clips the edge of the chamber (distorting the soft lead bullet) and will not fully seat in the chamber then you can easily get FTF. Excessive FTF may be the gun (??).

    LDBennett
  8. Curlyjoe_99

    Curlyjoe_99 Member

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    Hey everyone thanks for your suggestions and i will check them out this weekend.

    I do need to make a clarification. the ejector is part of the new trigger assembly and not the extractor pin as I stated in my original post. My apologies for that minor confusion as i do realize these little details can make a big difference.

    I did check and the bulk pack is NOT the 745 and like i stated before the first part of the pack worked fine and after i put in the new assembly was when the issues began.

    Curlyjoe
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2012
  9. Curlyjoe_99

    Curlyjoe_99 Member

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    Update:
    still having the issue but found some things out. the Federal Bullk savings 550 pack (750) is the issue, not the federal champion (745).

    i finally think i nailed the issue. i had just replaced the trigger group when i ran into problems with FTE. The casing would spin a 180 and jam on top of the following round. :banghead:all of these shots were also low-fliers which leads me to believe that they are not as fully charged as the majority of the rounds. Last weekend I discovered that the factory mags differ.:eek:hmygosh: I have four factory mags total, one labeled #1, another #2, and two that are #3. The 1 & 2 mags were causing the FTE. There is a ridge along the metal portion of the mag that is not straight when compared to the #3 mags. Once I switched to the #3 labeled mags the fliers didn't jam. :dance:

    Once I get caught up I’ll post pics of the magazines. I am uploading the FTE & the low-flier target.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]

    Hope this may help someone else out there
  10. Curlyjoe_99

    Curlyjoe_99 Member

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    I was able to go through the two magazines with Pics last night.
    The first image shows the magazine #'s and the stair step.
    [​IMG]

    The second image shows the after filing and polishing and the 750 bulk savings box. OK I know that i left my mags in a filthy state. :barf: They were promptly re-cleaned after the pic was taken.

    [​IMG]

    I do think that I will avoid the 750 box unless that is all that is available whether I am able to correct this or not.

    Hopefully I will be able to get back to the range before the 4th of July Holiday and post results.
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2012
  11. Curlyjoe_99

    Curlyjoe_99 Member

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    THings done to date:

    thoroughly cleaned the rifle
    polished the bolt along the bottom and trailing edge.
    polished the hammer face wehre it contacts the bolt.
    polished the ejector that is part of the trigger group as it had a groove in it.
    polished the tgrigger group case where the ejector slot is.

    filed & polished the magazine feed lips. :yeahthat:

    after this, i can manually eject a spent or live cartridge slowly and they do not jump off of the bolt until the ejector is contacted. Previouosly, the cartridge would sometimes bump the magazine and sort of spin within the rifle and never really be ejected clear of the bolt.

    so now it's back to the range for a combat speed test

    Not done: verifying that the cartridge is tight against the bolt face- i missed this one suggestion when i went disassembled last weekend.:banghead:
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2012
  12. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    Curlyjoe_99:

    I believe the latest Ruger magazines have the step. That is based on two clear magazines that were only offered (supposedly) for one year two years ago (??).

    The step appears to be the result of the lips being relieved to form a ramp inside the lip to guide the rim of the cartridge up correctly. It looks like some were made with the ramp a little deeper than others making the step whereas others that have a slightly shallower ramp doesn't break into the lips to form the step.

    I have 10 of these magazines, some new and some very old (30+ years old??). The really old ones seem to not have the step whereas the newest one seem to have the step. the break down is 6 with out the step and 4 with the step. Regardless of the step or not, all my magazines work fine with or without the step. It may be the tolerances in you receiver and bolt are such that the step comes into play in your gun. It certainly does not in mine. 10/22's are pretty crude for a gun and the tolerance in your gun may have just added up wrong such that the step makes a difference (??).

    I can tell you that I have tried several different large capacity magazines with plastic lips in my Volquartsen barreled 10/22 and they did not feed at all. I filled and screwed with them but could never get them to work with the Volqaurtsen barrel but they did work with the original Ruger barrel.

    Removing the step seems to have fixed you gun (??). I really don't know if the step is functional or not but it appears to be not.

    LDBennett
  13. Curlyjoe_99

    Curlyjoe_99 Member

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    LD,

    thanks for the information.

    Yes, at the bench in my garage, the two Mags in question now eject cleanly when a catridge "slips" from the bolt face and makes contact with the magazine.

    I'm torn between tearing the rifle back apart and working of the bolt face or trying a range test first. it will be a week at least before i can get back to the range to test and like most i am impatient when i am workng to get a rifle back in tune.

    Again, thanks for the help so far

    Curlyjoe
  14. tbspeed1

    tbspeed1 New Member

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    Good info on this thread to remember--in case my 10/22 starts to fte.
  15. Curlyjoe_99

    Curlyjoe_99 Member

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    Have an Update:

    managed not to mess with the rifle until I got to the range for a bit today.

    while i had several fliers (weak loads) in the 100 rds of the Federal that I shot, I only had two FTEs. to me that is a major improvement. At least they clear the chamber enough not to jam.

    it is frustrating enough to buy rounds that are severly inconsistent, it seems that the manufacturers don't give a flip and blame it on the weapons, but to to me it is inexcusable to allow ammunition to be sold that jams the weapon because of a low powder load. The industry has minimum and maximum loads for safety as it is, and I would wager a box of ammo that these fliers are under the minimums.

    There! rant over! :D

    tonight i get to tear the rifle back apart and check on that bolt face. :) I love this hobby!!!!
  16. BETH

    BETH Well-Known Member

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    good luck curly
  17. BETH

    BETH Well-Known Member

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    i like the federal auto match never had a problem with it
  18. Curlyjoe_99

    Curlyjoe_99 Member

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    OK got into the rifle this weekend. pulled it apart down to the bolt. when i clip a round in, it will stay in place on the bolt but does wiggle a little bit. I looked at the face and didn't see anything amiss. so, while i had it apart i put the new VQ exact extractor clip that i had purchased several months ago but never got around to installing. the problem cropped up and then, well... here we are. The rounds fit much tighter than with the original extractor, no wiggle movement at all. will see how this does on next range trip.
  19. nynomad

    nynomad New Member

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    Listen to Beth - use Federal Automatch as a test. Federal Bulk wont work in my Marlin 60 but automatch does as well as CCI Mini mags.
  20. Curlyjoe_99

    Curlyjoe_99 Member

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    thanks for the advice, but my intentions were to identify why i started having problems.
    I'll review:
    the first 1/2 of the box in question worked falwlessly, like the other two or three of the same brand/load. When swapped out the trigger i, was 1/2 way through a box, and the problems began. i put the original group back in and no problems. Put the new group back in and problems.....and so the thread goes. :)
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