10mm is better than .45

Discussion in 'The 1911 Forum' started by Raven18940, Sep 7, 2004.

  1. Raven18940

    Raven18940 New Member

    Mar 24, 2004
    I'm bored, so don't get to rilled up about this. I think 10mm is a superior cartidge to .45. Care to prove me wrong?
  2. Smoky14

    Smoky14 Member

    Nov 23, 2001
    Nowhere NM
    Good luck with the Supra, they are as rare as 10MM. The Camray and the 45 will get the job done.

    Smoky the common

  3. Shooter45

    Shooter45 *Administrator* Staff Member Supporting Member

    Feb 9, 2001
    Here at TFF
    Based on your experience, tell us why you think the 10mm is superior to the .45ACP round. In all my years of competitive shooting I have never seen anyone using the 10mm round.
  4. Xracer

    Xracer *TFF Admin Staff Mediator*

    Over the 99 year history of .45ACP, many "superior" rounds have come....and gone.

    Why? Because over the years, the 45 Auto round has proved to have the best combination of desireable attributes any large-bore round can have....reliability, man-stopping cabability, and inherent accuracy.

    Of course, it doesn't hurt that .45ACP is the primary caliber of the greatest pistol ever designed, the M1911.

    When a better pistol and cartridge are invented, John M. Browning will invent them. 'Course, he's dead now, so don't hold your breath. :D
  5. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

    Dec 20, 2003
    Hesperia, CA
    The 10 mm in the 1911 Colt was the first commercially successful 10 mm pistol. So it is part of the Colt 1911 John Browning family, not an outcast!

    The 10 mm has a power advantage over the 45ACP that no amount of hot loading of the 45ACP will ever acheive. Does that make it better? Depends on what you want.

    Because of that high power aspect, the 10 mm is harder to shoot and probably is not a good defense gun. The recoil on mine with full loads twist the gun in your hand unlike any other gun I have shot. That twisting might make a second shot harder to get on target.

    Of course you can download the 10 mm, which is exactly what I do. I have had the gun since Colt first released them for public consumption. After the inital WOW of the recoil I lowered the power level to that of the 45ACP in order to enjoy shooting it. I occassionally shoot 10 mm full power loads for effect but I regularly shoot the down loaded version. Then why not just have a 45ACP? or a 40 S&W which is the exact same power level that I download to? Perhaps to be able to occasionally experience the power of 10 mm.

    Is one better than the other? Who cares! They are different. I own many different caliber handguns in order to experience their different characteristics. So why not a 10 mm and a 45ACP and a 357 and a 357 MAX and a 32 ACP and a 38 SPL and a 40 S&W and a 25 ACP and a........ I got them all!

  6. Shooter45

    Shooter45 *Administrator* Staff Member Supporting Member

    Feb 9, 2001
    Here at TFF
    Just a side note.

    A gunshop here has a nice used Colt Delta Elite 10mm for $799.

    Anyone interested drop me an email and I'll put you in touch.
  7. Raven18940

    Raven18940 New Member

    Mar 24, 2004
    DAMN IT! Curse not being 21!

    Yeah, but the supra will get the job done much quicker and faster!

    Anyway reasons why I think 10mm/.40S&W is better than 45
    1. Better case design which allows them to be loaded to much higher camber pressures than .45
    2. Higher velocity for flatter trajectory (ok this really doesn't matter in a pistol)
    3. Smaller diameter, so more bullets in every mag! (7 45 versus 8 10mm in a Delta elite, wilson combat mags don't count!)
    4. MORE POWER!!!
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2004
  8. Bullseye

    Bullseye New Member

    Jun 29, 2003
    In all my years of competitive shooting I have never seen anyone using the 10mm round.

    That pretty much sums it up for me as well. It seems that the majority of competitive shooters DO NOT consider the 10mm to be superior for their uses. I'll take the 45 as well.
  9. Shooter45

    Shooter45 *Administrator* Staff Member Supporting Member

    Feb 9, 2001
    Here at TFF
    The higher velocity doesn't mean alot when it comes to accuracy. The .45 acp round running about 800 - 850 fps will group tight in a properly fitted pistol. Not so with the faster 10mm.

    And 8 rounds ?? My Colt Commander is loaded with 9 rounds of .45 ACP right now, thanks to the Wilson Combat mag. ( I know, I read your post :D )
    It seems the 10mm just never gained the popularity of the gun culture. The FBI tried it for a while and had problems with over penatration. No use shooting the bad guy and wounding one of your own or a bystander as the bullet passed thru. They dropped the 10mm in favor of the .40 cal. Then had accuracy problems with the .40 cal round. Took a while to work that out. Now it seems most are carrying 1911's in .45ACP. Go figure.
  10. Raven18940

    Raven18940 New Member

    Mar 24, 2004
    No fair, you counted the one in the camber.

    As for 10mm, sure it may be too powerful for it's own good, but I still think it's a good round. I was really just bored and wanted to stur up some trouble. I really want either a P16-40 or a P14-45, a 10mm would be too expensive to feed on my poor college student budget. In the end I'll probably get a P14 or some other hi-cap 1911 cause there are many more parts for .45 caliber.
  11. Shooter45

    Shooter45 *Administrator* Staff Member Supporting Member

    Feb 9, 2001
    Here at TFF
    I had a Para P-16 I used a few years ago in IPSC Limited competition. Briley bull barrel, Bo-Mar adj sights ,etc. Very accurate pistol.
  12. stash247

    stash247 New Member

    Oct 18, 2003
    Central Texas
    There are those among us who endure, even desire, exceptional punishment. I am not among them. Neither are three classes of FBI agent trainees, who could not be brought to acceptable accuracy standards, with the 10 mm.
    It's one heck of a round, at full throttle loading, but more than most shooters, and most guns (Colt Included) are up to.
    The 38 Super has equivalent ballistics, and much less recoil. For recoil reports, ask shooters of the caliber; for terminal ballistic reports, survivors. (These may be MUCH harder to find). Funny thing, though, the "Survivors" group paralells the same group, shot, in anger, with a .45 ACP.
    Once you are dead, you tend to stay in that condition, so my thought is that, if ENOUGH GUN is already available, why up-scale?
    I've shot the original, for forty years, and it's ENOUGH GUN, so, why change; it works pretty well, body count considered.
    Help me here, if you will, because I don't see the problem.
  13. Greg

    Greg New Member

    Feb 10, 2004
    New Mexico
    1) Ammo cost. The 10mm is going to cost more.
    2) Power yes. Personal defense-over penetration, and less accuracy/ repeatability-hot load.

    On paper, it looks great. In shooting it for defense or target, I'll take the .45 anyday. Same cartridge, the .357 SIG, the S & W .40, and the 10mm all have ballistics on paper that are impressive. All have been tried, and not count on or held onto like the good 'ole .45.

    The same thing holds true with the .454 Casull in a wheelgun. Power yes, but... I'll take a 44 magnum or Dan Wesson .445 supermag any day over the .454.

    If you want the power in a semi-auto, and something different to shoot, go with the Desert Eagle in .50. Now that is a conversation piece. It is a much more enjoyable gun to shoot with power to burn. It will put most body armor to shame. However, it might not fit in the Supra's glove box:)
  14. Raven18940

    Raven18940 New Member

    Mar 24, 2004
    Because this is america and we can, damn it! :D

    Peoples attachment to the .45 is down right scary some times. They think it's the greatest cartidge ever made. .40 S&W has very similar ballistics in a smaller package, so you have more in every mag. Why my 1911 carrying friend calls it .40 small and weak is beyond me. It'd do one hell of a number on you. The recoil felt the same when I fired .40 and .45 so it has to be at least close.
  15. 45Smashemflat

    45Smashemflat Active Member

    Oct 6, 2003
    The key here is "better for what?" Personal Defense? I think that's been covered, but to re-hash, the 10mm will put a man down - but in a combat situation will the user be capable of combat accuracy with fast repeatable hits? Not without lots of expensive practice.

    Perhaps to be able to hunt with a reasonably packable semi-auto? Now, we're getting somewhere, can't do that legally with a 45, but you can with a 10mm.....

    Like your car note at the bottom, it just depends on what you want to do with it.

    Hey, my .38 is currently better than my .45....why? I'm carrying the .38, that makes it better....
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