1814 French (?) Conversion musket identification request

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by AGW, Nov 8, 2012.

  1. AGW

    AGW New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    15
    Hi all, first post and in need of some help. Anyone able to identify this musket please? Appears to be French, .75 caliber with barrel length 44 3/4. Marks / proofs include B over 1814 on barrel, crown over what I think is a cursive D on several parts, most parts bear number 9 and also number 30, KR mark on inside of lock and on barrel. VIII carved inside stock in lock recess area and also filed on side of mainspring. Letters AC on side plate and on inside of lock. Number 5 on barrel and something that looks like an L or perhaps a U. I can see a number 9 on the hammer screw and also a number 8 and the L or U stamp.

    The musket looks like a Charleville design based on the stock shape including cheek cutout, barrel bands etc. I have not been able to find pictures of conversions that look the same. Will post pics shortly.

    Will welcome any comments.
  2. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    Messages:
    17,607
    Location:
    Australia
    Welcome! the pic's will help
  3. AGW

    AGW New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    15
    Established today that the musket bore about an inch in measures .708 so this is probably a .690 as one would expect, not .750 as I was informed originally. Here are some pictures.

    Attached Files:

  4. AGW

    AGW New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    15
    Barrel mark.

    Attached Files:

  5. AGW

    AGW New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    15
    Lock

    Attached Files:

  6. AGW

    AGW New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    15
    Side view

    Attached Files:

  7. AGW

    AGW New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    15
    Barrel band

    Attached Files:

  8. AGW

    AGW New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    15
    Second barrel band

    Attached Files:

  9. AGW

    AGW New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    15
    Third barrel band

    Attached Files:

  10. AGW

    AGW New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    15
    Conversion

    Attached Files:

  11. AGW

    AGW New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    15
    Trigger guard

    Attached Files:

  12. AGW

    AGW New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    15
    Side plate

    Attached Files:

  13. AGW

    AGW New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    15
    Stock inlet

    Attached Files:

  14. AGW

    AGW New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    15
    Lock

    Attached Files:

  15. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    Messages:
    17,607
    Location:
    Australia
    ok i'll guess

    a pic of the whole rifle wouuld help

    but i cant place those marks

    1777 austrian pattern rifle
    french converted to cap 1814

    told ya wild guess

    its got all the signs of a austrian rifle but without the markings , its had the numbers left on and they are confusing

    the stamp 1814 looks to be post convertion as that finish was filed hard and flush

    after waterloo france had to scrape up weapons it had captured all over as its main arms where taken so many older weapons where converted to arm up again , i think this fits that

    there where even egyptian rifles converted , sad eh i don know if this is one , but it would explain a few things what i do see
    Last edited: Nov 9, 2012
  16. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    Messages:
    17,607
    Location:
    Australia
    it this a stamp or a removed stamp ??

    Attached Files:

  17. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    Messages:
    17,607
    Location:
    Australia
    AC crown over D i cant find sorry

    converted austrian pattern rifle

    pedersoli makes a very good replica though they over do the brass when it should be steel but thats them

    compare

    ( from the cattle dog here )

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Nov 9, 2012
  18. AGW

    AGW New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    15
    Thanks so far! The mark on the inside of the lock is a KR stamp. It's also on the barrel. Bottom line is that it (by best guess) dates to 1812 or before right? The conversion was clearly very professionally done it seems. Since we cannot find manufactured or converted by any of the large or well known places. That makes it kinda cool also. By your best guess it doesn't appear to be a "new" fake, does it?

    Next big question - $650 reasonable or not? The seller wanted $850 then $750 and I offered $650. Basically figured that I couldn't get a new one at the price and old is better in my book anyway......
  19. AGW

    AGW New Member

    Joined:
    Nov 8, 2012
    Messages:
    15
    Forgot to ask about the ramrod. Who used this button style as opposed to the fluted style. The owner said this was the original rod.
  20. jack404

    jack404 Former Guest

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2010
    Messages:
    17,607
    Location:
    Australia
    no they;'d make it more clear to ID from stamps if it was faked if it is the charliville it was made a flinter , then way later was converted , now the file marks around where the pan was cut out and such extend to the 1814 stamp , so that stamp was done after the conversion , so think the year is when it was converted

    but i cant say for sure
Similar Threads
Forum Title Date
The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum I inherited my father's military rifle collection- #3 - French MAS Mar 27, 2014
The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum french flintlock pistol mystery Feb 27, 2014
The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum French Percussion Rifle, Which Model?? Dec 30, 2013
The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum French Flintlock Oct 12, 2013
The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum French Pirate Dagger Pistol Sep 3, 2013