1917 Artillery Luger with capture papers

Discussion in 'The Ask the Pros & What's It Worth? Forum' started by chuck101, Nov 30, 2012.

  1. chuck101

    chuck101 New Member

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    how much is this worth it has papers and two clips all numbers match on gun but clips do not

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  2. chuck101

    chuck101 New Member

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    more pics

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  3. chuck101

    chuck101 New Member

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    and more pics

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  4. chuck101

    chuck101 New Member

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    last of the pics

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  5. valbehaved

    valbehaved Member

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    Both clips are WWII vintage.
    The gun is absolutely original and around 95% condition, assuming that the grip straps are not worn.
    If the grip straps are in the same condition as the rest of the gun - I would estimate about $2500 retail.
    Price should be adjusted down if the grip straps show wear.
  6. chuck101

    chuck101 New Member

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    the grip straps are in good condition
  7. chuck101

    chuck101 New Member

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    how much do you think this would sell for with the capture papers
  8. 1 Eyed Jack

    1 Eyed Jack New Member

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    chuck, that is a great package, the paperwork really is cool, I would be real happy to have it myself, so understand I mean no disrespect whatsover with my question to valbehaved,

    I, in no way, consider myself an expert, someone with a lot of knowledge, or even someone with average knowledge about determining the % condition of any firearm, so this is a legitimate, trying to learn and understand question, again I am not and expert and do not play one on tv, but (and I'm asking this in general to val, or anyone) is the condition of the above pistol really considered to be 95% condition?

    I understand(i think)the added value off being original, but that doesn't really play into the % rating does it?

    I'm trying to learn and understand how to evaluate "condition", of any firearm, not stir anything up,

    Just trying to learn here,
  9. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    I would say it is 95% if the rear backstrap is as nice as the front one. Those percentages are a bit problematical, since no one figures out how many square centimeters or whatever there is on a gun and exactly what percent of the original finish each square has in it. It is really a sort of "guesstimate", not a mathematically exact percentage.

    Some writers rate a good refinish as equivalent to a 60% finish; others consider a refinish as 0% original (which it is) and don't rate a refinished gun at all. In general, collectors would prefer some original finish to a refinish, but if the gun were very bad (rusted and in general horrible shape) a good refinish would be better than such a bad finish (which is not "original" either).

    Jim
  10. RJay

    RJay Active Member

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    Unfortunately the Capture papers are not capture papers , only the authorization to send/bring a war trophy home. It adds a little to the overall value but not by much. A collector wants the gun, they will keep the paper's but the papers tells nothing about the gun, not who owned prior to its being " liberated " , where the gun was found, nothing. In fact I feel the papers would mean more to the family than the buyer of the gun. JMO and I could be wrong.
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2012
  11. chuck101

    chuck101 New Member

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    how much can this be sold for ?
  12. dcriner

    dcriner Member

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    I agree. The papers merely say that so-and-so brought back such-and-such gun. Nothing more. Of course, somebody brought the gun to the U.S., and, for value, it probably doesn't matter who.

    The gun is worth the same as it would be without the paperwork. You can go online, and see the prices they are going for.
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2012
  13. RJay

    RJay Active Member

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    Find the right buyers and I think for 2500 they will fighting for the chance to buy it.
  14. RJay

    RJay Active Member

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    chuck, you received a estimate from a very knowledgeable individual of 2500, that's in a private sale, sale to a gun shop and you will receive about 60 to 70 per cent of that, the shop has to pay rent and feed the wife and kiddies and that gun might set in the display case a couple of months. I think a auction is where you will get the best value. It is the type of item that cause people to catch " bid " fever . Of course you will have to pay a commission but you will still come out ahead.JMO
  15. 1 Eyed Jack

    1 Eyed Jack New Member

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    Thanks for your honest, civil answer Jim, I'm just trying to figure out what the guestimates are based on, I guess only time, and seeing a lot of guns, shows, auctions etc. and experience over many years is the only way to build up that kind of knowledge,

    Thanks for the comeback,
  16. chuck101

    chuck101 New Member

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    thanks rjay
  17. RJay

    RJay Active Member

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    chuck101, We gun nutz enjoy the research, most of us have more books than we have shelf room:) What makes it worth while, when someone takes the time to return and say thank you. As Gentlman Jim Hauff used to say, Thank you for Thanking. By the way, welcome to the forum:)
  18. valbehaved

    valbehaved Member

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    I think Jim K covered the percentage issue pretty well.
    That is the reason why excellent quality pictures are essential in making a determination on the percentage of the finish and on its originality.
    The biggest detraction for this gun, in my opinion, is the wear on the side plate, which, together with the grip straps are usually the most worn parts of any luger.
    If the side plate was in 95% condition as well - this could have been a $3000-3500 gun.
  19. Danny

    Danny Member

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    Hi Chuck,
    I have one exactly like yours , however your Luger has the adjustable front sight which is a rarity. Try to find a wooden bottom based mag to make it perfect. I have many Lugers, but no spare mags. The two you have are for Mauser Lugers , brought into play in the 30' up to 1942. The black based one should have fxo on it somewhere & could bring 3 to 4 hundred. If you would like to give me a pm I may have a source for you to obtain a wooden base one. All in all a very fine Luger valued at least 3200.
    Kind Regards
    Danny:)
  20. Jim K

    Jim K New Member

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    Some of the purists might not agree, but I usually make some exceptions for finish problems that are so common that they really detract little from the value. The Luger sideplate is one of those. That gun has perhaps more wear than normal, but it is a rare pistol that won't have some bluing wear on the sideplate. Another such area on the Luger is the muzzle. Some wear in that area is almost a given for any gun that has been in a holster or even in a box or a desk drawer. I have one Luger that I believe is unfired (proof/test firing aside), yet there is some holster wear on the sideplate and muzzle.

    I don't say that such wear does not prevent a 100% designation - it does. But in verbal terms, I doubt any one would call my Luger anything other than excellent, the slight wear notwithstanding.

    Jim
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