200 yard group.

Discussion in '.22-Rimfire Forum' started by ms6852, Dec 14, 2008.

  1. ms6852

    ms6852 Member

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    I am very new to rimfire shooting and have become addicted to it. I purchased a used remington 513T with redfield sights a couple of months ago and have been shooting it at 100 yds. I have tried and am still trying all kinds of ammo and subsonic seems to be the way to go for better groups. I try the other high velocity rounds only for hunting to that distance and to get a decent zero for that particular round when I go hunting. My question is the following: What kind of group can I expect at 200 yds with what I have? The trigger pull is set at about 1.5 to 2lbs and everything else is original. I did switch out the rear sight to a merit #3 master adjustable iris disc because my 50 plus eyes need the help. I have ordered a vianni mount that will help me get better groups with a scope but I would like to try the iron sights first. The best group I have gotten was about 1.5 to 2 inches with remington yellow jackets and cci green dot. Winds were at my 9 to 11 o'clock at 10 to 15 miles and temp was at 85 degrees. I have just bought a brick of aguilas subsonic rounds which I tend to use for 200yds. Next question is what kind of drop can I expect at 200yds with my rifle been zeroed at 100yds? Thanks guys.
  2. 300 H&H

    300 H&H Active Member

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    Congradulations on your "addicting" target rifle!:)

    You did not specify what Redfield sight you have....I hope you have enough elevation adjustment to be able to get a zero at 200yd.. From 50yd to 100yd requires roughly 26 1/4 min. clicks to get to 100 yds. If I remember correctly, you will need about 3ft. of elevation above your 100 yd zero. This is calculated by taking 36" X 4= 144 clicks above your present zero. The front sight can be placed on a lower block to give you more, if you do not have enough adjustment in the sight, this is with subsonic ammo. By the way if you really want to see what your rifle can do, I would try Eley Tenex target ammo, or Wolf Match extra & SK rifle match. these choices are much better from a pure accuracy stand point. Occasionally we have shot NRA prone at 200 yd. and it is called "Mini Palma match" fired prone with a shooting coat and sling. It is a hoot, and is supposed to somewhat simulate 1000 yd shooting with a high powered rifle. Wind WILL be your enemy!! Expect the actuall "flight time" to the target of 1.5 seconds or so, an awfully long time for the wind to push your off target. Shoot very early or very late in the day when the wind calms down, and you will be surprized with your results. My guess your rifle will shoot about twice the size of your 100 yd. groups, in near perfect conditions. I hope this helps.....Merry Christmas,:) Kirk
    Last edited: Dec 14, 2008
  3. ms6852

    ms6852 Member

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    Merry Christmas. I believe the redfield sights are the 75. I have it elevated up to 12 on the elevation scale or gauge and it goes up to 30. Thanks on the ammo tip I will order some as I have not seen it at cabelas, sportmans warehouse, or bass pro shops. All this stores and not one has them in stock ...go figure. This is a lot of fun and less expensive than shooting my 30-06.
  4. 300 H&H

    300 H&H Active Member

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    Unfortunately the "Big Box" stores carry alot of things, but .22 target rifles and high grade match ammo are not on their list.....Find yourself a local gun shop and order from them. Your Redfield sight will most likely not have quite enough elevation adjustment, but give it a try. 30 marks are the 30 minutes of adjustments, with 4 clicks per hash mark. Might be enough with HV ammo. A front target block for under your front sight can be had with 2 steps machines in. a high position for 50yd and a low for 100 yd. One of these may give your rear sight a break, and alow you to get to 200 yd. Or you might have to get a shorter standard block and mount it to shoot 200 yd. Champions Choice, Brownells, Creedmore sports are all places to check for sight blocks and ammo for "formal" taget rifles and for a regulation 200 yd paper targets (they are quite large) You are right, shooting your 513T is alot of fun. And considerably less expensive than your 06. Since it is -6 deg outside here right now, with 35-40mph winds,:eek: 200 yd shooting doesn't sound to appealing for now, LOL! Best regards Kirk
    Last edited: Dec 15, 2008
  5. Hoytshooter

    Hoytshooter New Member

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    The Redfield sights on the gun are very similar to the old Redfield Olympics and are designed for use with target ammo. As such the rear sight probably can't be elevated enough to work with subsonic ammo at 200 yards. Btw, target ammo is not the same as subsonic as most good target ammo will be pretty close to 1100 FPS at the muzzle.

    Years ago when I shot competition with a 513T I sometimes used Winchester SuperX high velocity when I couldn't afford the good target stuff. The only real difference I found was that during a match I might get a couple of fliers with the SuperX I wouldn't get with the target ammo.

    If you really want to shoot that 513T out to 200 yards I'd look into some of CCIs high velocity ammo, they seem to manufacture their rimfire ammo to tighter specs than some other companies. I think Eley also makes some very good ammo that might be able to reach out to 200 with more than acceptable accuracy. Subsonic ammo is not designed for long range shooting and if you want to use it at any thing much passed 75 yards you're going to end up with a trajectory that looks a lot like a rainbow. ;)
  6. Shooter45

    Shooter45 *Administrator* Staff Member

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    A 200 yd group with sub sonic.22 LR will look more like a shotgun patten.

    Try some CCI Blazer ammo and keep us posted on your progress.
  7. William Harper

    William Harper New Member

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    Re: 200 yard group. Dear MS6852

    An HV 22 LR will drop 40 inches between 100 and 200 yards. I don't think your rear sight will give you sufficient elevation. Although your Aguila Subsonico will group at 200 yards in quiet air, you need more elevation. You might try a much higher velocity load, Aguila Interceptor (1470 fps); it may or may not be accurate from your 513T but it will certainly flatten the trajectory to 200 yards. My best groups with it: 1.25" at 100 yards. 2.5" at 200 meters, 4.5" at 300 meters-open sights; 7" at 400 meters, 10" at 500 meters, 12" at 600 meters in quiet air with a receiver sight and adjustable front sight on a CZ Ultra Lux Super Exclusive. You may not have heard of anything like this before. I have spent my last 60 years with the rifle ever since two old WWI draftees Weston Harper Sr, my father, and Alvin York decided the little rascal ought to be taught to shoot. The course has lasted the last sixty years. See what you can do with your 513T. I recall them as excellent .22LR target rifles from the late 1950s and in the early 1960s.. Good luck.
  8. Oldeyes

    Oldeyes Member

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    William Harper - You can shoot on my team anytime that you want!!!! I have never been able to come up with calm enough wind conditions and a long enough shooting range to test my skills as you have yours. I bench shoot at 100 and 200 yards and just for fun of it one of the original orange stocked CZ 452 Ultra Lux .22 rifles with a 36 power scope. Almost always I have to shoot in 5-10 MPH light and variable quartering cross winds and as a result I have trouble coming even close to your iron sighted results. Outstanding job sir. Your calm condition iron sighted results should give the long distance .22 LR nay sayers something to chew on for some time to come.
  9. William Harper

    William Harper New Member

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    Re: 200 yard group. Dear Oldeyes:

    One thing that may have helped me in the long range .22 LR exercise was carefully selecting the days with the quietest air. Another is that the range stretches west to east and is heavily sheltered by dense pine sapling growth for the first 300 meters to the north and by mature pine growth to the north for the last 300 plus the lay of the land makes part of this last distance almost a valley. Some wind force may never reach the bullets' path here.
    I cannot leave out good fortune with the CZ Ultra Lux having the ideal bore for it nor exclude the encouragement of my old friend Ed (1928- Sept. 15, 2008) to compare the modern .22 LR to the old first-class medium range black powder target cartridges .40-70 and .44-77 for examples. You are right about the 5-10 mph wind's effects on this type of shooting. Even with the fastest loads groups stretch horizontally sometimes two or three feet right of where they ought to be at 300 meters, if that wind blows from the north. That stength of wind shatters 200 yard accuracy with standard velocity or some match ammo.
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2009
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