22-250 Re-Loading Questions

Discussion in 'The Ammo & Reloading Forum' started by Kevro869, May 1, 2004.

  1. Kevro869

    Kevro869 New Member

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    Hey guys you’re going to have to excuse the moisture behind my ears, but I have many questions about reloading.

    First off, is it normal for a 22-250 case to crack like this after only a few reloads? I’ve been around re-loaders for the better part of my life, which has been mostly a handgun cartridge. I’ve never seen a case crack horizontally…

    The load:

    37.5 GR Hodgdon 380
    55 GR Winchester FMJ

    The Rifle:

    TC Encore

    Attached Files:

  2. Kevro869

    Kevro869 New Member

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    Today's results at 200M (218.7 Yards).

    10 rounds fired.

    26" barrel with a 1 in 12" twist.

    I'm thinkin' the shooter just sucks ass...That would be me...
    Last edited: May 1, 2004
  3. Kevro869

    Kevro869 New Member

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    Oops...The attachment...

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  4. Ronald J. Snow

    Ronald J. Snow New Member

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    My opinion.....you appear to have what is known as "incipient head seperation". This is caused by either excessive head-space in your firearm or you are using an incorrectly adjusted resizing die.
    With your choice of firearm (TC Encore) I would doubt you have a headspace problem with the firearm. It looks like you might be full length resizing your cases and are setting the the shoulder back too far thereby causing your cartridge to be unsupported. In other words, you are resizing your cases and making them too short. I would try neck sizing and see if this corrects the problem. Ron
  5. inplanotx

    inplanotx New Member

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    I agree with Ron. You should have been able to see this before it separated though. It appears as a shiney ring before it lets loose. You can check your cases by straightening a paper clip and filing a point on one end. Then bend a section near the tip to a 90 degree angle that will fit through the case neck. Hold the cartridge and slide the paper clip down the wall of the case. It separation is immenent, you will feel a valley with the sharpened tip of the clip. You did not say how many times the case was reloaded, but according to my new Hodgdon reloading manual, your load is 1/2 grain Over Maximum listed by them for the 55gr bullet with H380! Being over max load may also explain why you cannot get a group out off that load. Faster is not necessarily more accurate!
  6. Kevro869

    Kevro869 New Member

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    Thank you both for responding so quickly.

    I agree with both you when you say the problem lies with the shoulder. However when chambering a reloaded (after full length resizing) cartridge the rifle will not close. I believe this would be a sign that the case is too long because the shoulder is improperly resized. The only adjustment I know of is to bring the die in to contact with the shell plate. Any suggestions?

    The load data I used is right on the container. 41 grains is the max for 55 gr. bullet.

    Again thanks for your time and wisdom!

    Kev

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  7. Ronald J. Snow

    Ronald J. Snow New Member

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    Try something for me.

    Set up your dies per the manufacturers instructions as I do not know what brand you are using.

    Resize a casing and check to see if the case needs trimming and trim if necessary.

    Now insert the unloaded casing into the chamber and see if the rifle will close.

    If it closes then seat a bullet into the casing (do not prime or add powder).

    Now insert this dummy cartridge into the chamber and see if the rifle closes. If it does not close then try seating the bullet deeper into the casing a small amount and repeat until it does.

    Let us know if and how this works for you.
  8. inplanotx

    inplanotx New Member

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    That is very interesting. Here is Hodgdon's 26th edition data manual page 124. I would call Hodgdon and ask them why there is such a discrepancy!

    My Lee reloading manual lists H380 with 55 gr Max at 37 grains.

    This is interesting to say the least. My Speer manual lists 55 gr bullet with H380 start at 38 gr Max at 42 Compressed load with magnum primer. Go figure!

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    Last edited: May 2, 2004
  9. Kevro869

    Kevro869 New Member

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    Okay guys here’s the latest:

    I cleaned, trimmed, lubed and then full length resized 40 cases. Only eight would chamber properly. The reloading equipment is all Lee. Perhaps a resizing die from a different manufacturer would help?

    Thanks

    Kev
  10. inplanotx

    inplanotx New Member

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    Please tell us what dies you are using and how you adjust the sizing die. If this is a used die, you may want to take it apart and clean the upper half (shoulder area) with carb cleaner or Hoppes.
    Let us know.
  11. Craig

    Craig New Member

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    I had the same thing happen to some of my 44 mag. cases. I figured it was just bad brass. Thanks for the ideas.
  12. Kevro869

    Kevro869 New Member

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  13. Kevro869

    Kevro869 New Member

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    I have backed all the other dies out to insure that the resizing die is setup properly which merely entails that the shell plate meets the die.

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  14. inplanotx

    inplanotx New Member

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    Well, that being the case, I would call Lee and explain what is happening to them. I know RCBS asks that you send 5 fired cases and the sizing die to them and they will recut the die. I do not know what Lee will do. Have you tried factory ammo in your rifle? I would fire 5 factory rounds and then resize them and try them in the rifle. You may have some bad brass also. Where did you get the brass? Let us know.

    I use mainly RCBS rifle dies. They tell you to adjust the sizer die until it touches the shell holder with the ram up. Drop the ram and add 1/8 to a 1/4 more of a turn and lock the die. This accounts for the camming action of the press.
    Last edited: May 5, 2004
  15. LDBennett

    LDBennett Well-Known Member

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    Kevro869:

    I am currently reading Richard Lee's reloading book. Very near the beginning he states that Lee dies should be set up different than others. He insists that the die is set up to just touch the case holder then turn in another 1/4 to 1/3 turn. He claims Lee dies are different than all others and need to be set up differently.

    I personally use RCBS gages to measure the distance from the reference point on the shoulder to the primer end of the case. I measure the fireformed cases and set up my die to push the shoulder back just about 0.001 thousands from that dimension.

    I wonder if the chamber is cut right from the factory. I have a Browning that missed one of several chamber reaming operations and would push a correct length round's bullet into the case when the bolt closed and jam the bullet into the barrel's lands. That does terrible thing to the pressure when fired. I solved the problem by sending the gun back to Browning who corrected the problem by fininshing the chamber correctly. Their local Browning gunsmithing station could not understand the problem and only reluctantly sent it to Browning for me when I proved beyond a doubt what was happening. A close inspection of the chamber, when armed with the understanding that the bullet was jambing into the lans, revealed a sharp transisiton from the chamber to the rifling rather than a tapered transistion.

    As for the amount of H380, the data published must be followed the exactly, including primer, exact bullet, and the correct overall cartridge length. But the difference between 37 and 41 grains is enormous. The bottle data must be wrong!


    LDBennett
  16. inplanotx

    inplanotx New Member

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    I think the bottle data is right as I and Ron have llooked at the Hodgdon site and they are the same as the canister loads. I think that my book is about 3 years old and they changed the data.

    One other thought. Look at the crown and see if there are nicks or dings in the crown. If so, that would also cause the wide open groups.
    Last edited: May 6, 2004
  17. Kevro869

    Kevro869 New Member

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    Okay guys here is a little food for thought.

    The original brass was factory Winchester ammo. Neck sizing was sufficient the first time around, however subsequent reloads would not chamber even after trimming and FL resizing.

    New Winchester brass and a headspace gauge came today. The top photo is the old resized brass. I’ve got 20 rounds loaded for tomorrow using new brass; ten using the cheap Winchester 55 Gr. Fmjs and ten tipped with Hornady’s supreme 52 Gr. A-Max. Both packed with 39 grains of H-380.

    Wish me luck!

    As usual thanks for your patience and sage advice!!

    Kev

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  18. inplanotx

    inplanotx New Member

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    Kev,
    Seeing that, I would recommend taking that rifle to a gunsmith and having him check the headspace with go-no go guages. There appears to be so much case stretching that that may be your problem. Just to be sure, I would do it before I fire it again.

    What is the length of that fired case? It appears to be too long.
    Last edited: May 7, 2004
  19. Kevro869

    Kevro869 New Member

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    Thanks for all help and suggestions!

    I was watching the press while FL resizing a case and noticed that on the progressive style press the shell plate would cock to the side a bit. So I tried the FL die in an older turret style press where the ram is directly below the case. Problem solved!! I haven’t had any problems with elongated or splitting brass. The brass I’m using now has five reloads on the odometer and it looks great.

    Next Question:

    I just received OAL gauge from Stoney Point that precisely measures how far out a bullet can be set before it touches the rifling. What is a good starting distance? How much of the bullet should remain in the neck of the case? Keep in mind I am looking for an accurate target-only cartridge.

    Sunday’s Results:

    Bullet: Winchester 55 GR. FMJ
    Powder: 36 GR. Winchester 748
    Distance: 327 yards (300M)

    Attached Files:

  20. inplanotx

    inplanotx New Member

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    Kev, glad you found the problem. In looking at your load, you seem to like loads near the max level. My advice would be to drop down several grains and work your way up a half grain at a time looking for groups. After all, you are looking to punch paper, not varmits. Back off and see what happens! Good luck and keep us posted.

    Next time post your target with a quarter as reference so we can see the size of the group better. Hard to tell from that type target!
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